[1.3.0] Kerbal Engineer Redux 1.1.3.0 (2017-05-28)

[TheReaper]

TWR is shown in compact mode, too. I suspect TheReaper is really after lift-to-weight, i.e. the lift generated by aerodynamic surfaces versus the weight of the craft.

I don't think KER (or any mod that I know of) calculates this, and it seems like it is a fairly complex calculation as lift varies by speed, atmospheric density and attitude.

well,it looks like i just have to build wings to last, kinda disapointing though, considering people always complain about stock aerodynamics is so simple and total nonesense yet no one can calculate it it would make plane construction a lot easier

thanks though

[Diazo]

I actually have a hack method of calculating Lift-to-Weight I use to compensate for lift from wings for my Velocity Control mod.

The limitation is that this would be a real-time report while in flight, I don't have any way of getting the number in the SPH.

The reason being is that my method calculates backwards from what's actually happened, it does not simulate it, as follows:

1) Get vertical acceleration from our last physics update, convert to the force exerted on the plane.

2) Get the amount of vertical thrust from engines, subtract from force exerted on plane.

3) Remaining force on plane was lift from wings, calculate Lift-to-Weight.

I'd have to look into landing gear wheels and see if I can distinguish between 'lift' from those resting on the ground and actual lift from wings, otherwise this method will never show a Lift-to-Weight of less then 1 while on the ground as it would could the force the ground is exerting on the wheels as lift.

It also technically shows your Lift-to-Weight for the previous physics frame update, but as there are 50 updates per second that is not a big deal.

I have no clue if this could be incorporated into KER at all, does the current simulation engine it uses have atmospheric variables at all?

D.

[jrandom]

certainly 2 other guys before me told you what i really meant, but i d like to say, its called you misunderstod and you are WRONG

Well gee, thanks for being so understanding.

[Drew Kerman]

All I ask for the next release is the KER window not popping up by default all the time

[Padishar]

This is probably more a job for Cybutek in the new version than for the current 0.6 series. There are a number of odd effects with the window visibility and there isn't a huge amount of point fixing them in the current version as it isn't exactly a critical bug, more a slight inconvenience...

[Agathorn]

I keep running into the problem where KER isn't showing data in the VAB on all my stages. I double/triple check all the staging and its all correct, but KER refuses to show more than one stage (it actually looks like the last stage (IE the in orbit stage) based on the shown ISP, but i'm not positive on that). Its like it gets stuck and refuses to update. If I go through and delete all the actual parts for the stages, tanks, engines, decouplers, then it still doesn't update! It still shows that one, now non-existent, stage. No errors appear in the log.

EDIT: ok, seriously WTF. I hit the NEW button to clear everything and start a brand new rocket. I added the probe as part 1, then the KER chip as part 2. KER immediately once again showed me that one stage form the PREVIOUS rocket! I then exited the VAB completely went back in, and its doing the same thing!

Are there any mods KNOWN to cause bugs in KER?

Edited June 27, 2014 by Agathorn

[Padishar]

It sounds like the simulation code is stalling for some reason. This should happen much less with 0.6.2.4 (or my dev version based on it) than it used to. If you are using 0.6.2.4 then can you upload your output_log.txt somewhere so I can look for problems?

Does KER work correctly if you just start KSP and build a simple rocket? Does it then always go wrong when you load this particular craft? If so, can you please post a screenshot of the VAB with KER's "show all stages" button pressed and the KSP staging list visible, and also upload the craft file? If it uses part mods then please also give a list of all the different mods.

[Agathorn]

Restarting KSP completely fixes it, but it isn't 100% reproducible that i've seen. It just randomly happens.

[Padishar]

Restarting KSP completely fixes it, but it isn't 100% reproducible that i've seen. It just randomly happens.

Next time it happens, if you can upload your output_log.txt it may help me to track down the cause. I can see one place where a problem could go unnoticed and unreported in the log so I will be updating my development version to fix this later this evening...

[gm537]

I am getting a glitch where KER is showing dV's a lot above the actual. The problem seems to occur when using two types of engine, one with much higher ISP than the other. I am using Future Propulsion and thus the higher ISP engine is running a different fuel. Not exactly sure where the problem is coming from but it seems to be fine with just NFP engines it's only when I combine the engines with standard engines that I see a problem.

Note stage S3 which claims to have 12km/s dV but in reality will only have about 3km/s dV. Not sure what the problem is but it was definitely screwing up my designs...

[Padishar]

I am getting a glitch where KER is showing dV's a lot above the actual. The problem seems to occur when using two types of engine, one with much higher ISP than the other. I am using Future Propulsion and thus the higher ISP engine is running a different fuel. Not exactly sure where the problem is coming from but it seems to be fine with just NFP engines it's only when I combine the engines with standard engines that I see a problem.

http://i.imgur.com/Eptm0Ku.png

Note stage S3 which claims to have 12km/s dV but in reality will only have about 3km/s dV. Not sure what the problem is but it was definitely screwing up my designs...

I've never looked at Near Future Propulsion so there may well be issues with the engines. If you aren't already, then can you try the dev version of KER linked in my sig? Then, assuming that also gives the wrong values, open the tweakable panel for the engineer part (or the pod if you use the MM config) and hit the "Log Sim" button. This will dump a large amount of logging into output_log.txt. Then upload your output_log.txt somewhere for me to have a look at. A copy of your craft file and a full list of the part mods used would also be very useful...

[gm537]

I've never looked at Near Future Propulsion so there may well be issues with the engines. If you aren't already, then can you try the dev version of KER linked in my sig? Then, assuming that also gives the wrong values, open the tweakable panel for the engineer part (or the pod if you use the MM config) and hit the "Log Sim" button. This will dump a large amount of logging into output_log.txt. Then upload your output_log.txt somewhere for me to have a look at. A copy of your craft file and a full list of the part mods used would also be very useful...

Okay so I got the dev version and frankly is seems to be more wrong... It seems to be confused about how the staging is even happening and I'm not quite sure why... but regardless a number of the stages that were wrong before seem to still be wrong (and now some stages that were right also appear to be incorrect, at least in VAB)

As for the "log sim" thing do I do that in the VAB and then just fly it for a bit? Or do I fly it for a bit and then hit it? The parts mods being used here are: Near Future Propulsion, Near Future Solar, and KW Rocketry. Though, as mentioned I only seem to be having problems when combining (burning simultaneously) engines from NFP, and traditional engines (either stock or KW, both are incorrect)

[Padishar]

The "Log Sim" button will simply make the next run of the simulation code (so, the next time the build engineer or the VES tab of flight engineer updates) dump out debug info, so you can quit a few seconds after. I've set up a test install of KSP with all the Near Future packs and will add KW so I can run some tests. Are you able/willing to upload the .craft?

[gm537]

Ok so I tried flying the ship and the live version was additionally incorrect being confused by even standard asparagus staging. I tried doing the "Log Sim" thing for a while and I don't I did it correctly as I don't see the output_log.txt

The link to the craft file is below.

http://www./view/u8q6p7og6corc9h/Kerbol_Altitudinator_IV.craft

[Padishar]

The output_log.txt is created by KSP in the KSP_Data folder (on windows at least). I'll take a look at your craft...

[Padishar]

Ok so I tried flying the ship and the live version was additionally incorrect being confused by even standard asparagus staging.

Yes, there does appear to be a bug or two with the simulation staging logic in my latest dev build. I'll get a fixed version up as soon as I can...

[velve]

Hi there, any way to remove the in-flight monitoring added by KER? I've got one on each ship and did not realize the amount of lag they build up over a while. Setting the calculation time to 1000 has helped a bit but I would much rather get rid of them altogether.

Thanks

[Padishar]

Hi there, any way to remove the in-flight monitoring added by KER? I've got one on each ship and did not realize the amount of lag they build up over a while. Setting the calculation time to 1000 has helped a bit but I would much rather get rid of them altogether.

Thanks

Simply close the VES tab of the flight engineer window. It only ever runs on the active vessel (the one you are actually flying) and only when the VES window is showing.

[IronStar]

I have a weird issue- like in Agathorn s case engineer shows only one stage. In my case it shows only lowest stage- it updates it when something is changed but still, never anything except lover stage. But what is strange is that engineer works ok if i load pre-made craft(stock or from mods)- i can load, make changes and engineer updates ok(however even there there is an issue of upper stage inflated numbers) but when i make my own craft from scratch- everything happens just as i ve described. I ve tried making my craft stock one by putting files to the main ships folder but same happens when i load it.

It also must be noted that i have absolutely same issues with mechjeb dv calculator.

[Padishar]

I have a weird issue- like in Agathorn s case engineer shows only one stage. In my case it shows only lowest stage- it updates it when something is changed but still, never anything except lover stage. But what is strange is that engineer works ok if i load pre-made craft(stock or from mods)- i can load, make changes and engineer updates ok(however even there there is an issue of upper stage inflated numbers) but when i make my own craft from scratch- everything happens just as i ve described. I ve tried making my craft stock one by putting files to the main ships folder but same happens when i load it.

It also must be noted that i have absolutely same issues with mechjeb dv calculator.

Which version of KER are you using? Can you upload your craft for me to take a look at or, at least, a screenshot of the engineer window showing the problem (with "show all stages" clicked if in the editor)? There is probably some quirk of your ship design that is confusing the calculation code...

Edit: Also, an screenshot example of "upper stage inflated numbers" with a description of which numbers you think are wrong would be useful.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Padishar

[IronStar]

i am using 0.6.2.4

http://i.imgur.com/yP2oaNC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/znreTND.jpg

Stock KerbX- all is ok and engineer responds to changes

http://i.imgur.com/CszDhuH.jpg

Freya from NovaPunch- same

And now the craft made from scratch

http://i.imgur.com/GQTiUsz.jpg

I ve tried many - everything is same

http://www.filedropper.com/spacecraft2

link to file

I ll try to reproduce the case with inflated numbers a bit later

[Padishar]

I ve tried many - everything is same

http://www.filedropper.com/spacecraft2

link to file

KER (and MJ) both have issues when the root part of the vessel (the part you place first in the editor) is dropped in an earlier stage. The root part of your craft is the fuel tank with the 3 launch clamps attached and this gets dropped when stage 1 is activated. Once this is done the craft only consists of the empty fuel tank, engine and decoupler so has no deltaV left. The only way to work around this at present it to redesign your ship so that one of the parts that doesn't get decoupled is the root part (usually the command pod). You can use the SelectRoot mod to switch the root part of your vessel and KER should immediately start updating correctly.

There are other staging related issues in KER (see my development thread) and you should probably be using the dev version in preference as it does fix some of them (and others are being worked on)...

[IronStar]

Thank you very much, i ll try this mod, and if it doesnt work.....so be it, going to make rockets the new way. And what you ve said actually partly solves inflated upper stage dv- i ive used pre made heavy launcher from KW and attached pod with fuel tank and engine- i think that it just didnt see the new parts.

[Rakh]

Confirmed not currently working with .24. I forgot to take a screenshot so you'll just have to take my word or test yourself >_>

[Padishar]

Yes, the simulation code is failing to calculate the part costs because something has changed in the core game API. I will release a fix over in my development thread asap...