The "Douglas Adams" Challenge

[Superfluous J]

I've got a Tylo mission that works on paper, and the lander works in reality (I've used it before) so mostly it's down to actually doing it now.

I am not sure yet but I may record it and edit it down to something watchable, or just post pictures.

[dnbattley]

8 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Yeah, Eve should be the Platinum award, tbh. If you can pull a return to Kerbin from the surface of Eve with 42 parts or less, that's some serious KSP-fu. 

 

I'm sold on making the change, and propose Lathe surface reduced to Bronze (land)/Silver (sea), Eve surface to Silver (3000m+)/Gold (300m+)/Platinum (<300m), and will update the rules. Apologies to anyone already working towards a given award level... I'm not yet convinced about upgrading Tylo to gold as a low part lander with the necessary 5-or-so-k dV doesn't strike me as all that hard, though I can see it challenging the space plane crowd...

Edited September 21, 2018 by dnbattley
correction

[mystifeid]

Here is a very nasty 42 part mission to Tylo. With an ugly ship and an uglier plan. If there are points for grotesque ships that leave finesse on the launchpad, then this one is a winner. At nearly 1000 tons, it's like that big fat cousin you hope nobody knows about, let alone has seen.

The three big tanks punch it into LKO but not much further. The single nuke takes it to Pol courtesy of the (nearly) empty tanks on the lander. Then the lander is forced to land on Pol twice to mine and convert ore with it's ISRU - the first time to refill the nuke's tanks and the second time to fill it's own.

Since there are no RCS parts, every time the ships dock (5 times during the mission) it is done without RCS. Engine only docking. Luckily this is actually no harder than using RCS to dock.

The nuke takes it to Tylo. Fuel is looking grim but I remember there is 75 units of ore in the small radial ore tank and I also transfer 200 units of liquid fuel from the lander to the nuke before undocking and starting the descent.

With the perfect profile, the poodle is just capable of pulling off a landing with the remaining fuel. It mines and converts ore again. I was pretty sure it would not be able to lift off again with full tanks. And I would have wasted quite a few hours by that stage. But it limps off the surface and as soon as it did that I knew it could make it back to orbit and another engine only dock with the nuke.

The ore in the ore tank is again converted to liquid fuel and now that the lander's tanks are nearly empty again I have more than enough fuel to make it back to Pol. After another two mining operations on the surface of Pol, I head back to Kerbin. But I'm getting tired and I place the mid-course correction on the wrong side of the orbit. It's valid but it takes something like ten years to get back to Kerbin.

Soon after entering Kerbin's SOI, the nuke runs out of fuel and is ditched. Then I start doing a lot of aerobraking. Originally I'd planned to deorbit at fairly high speed courtesy of a heat shield but because I did not have enough radiators, all the ablator was consumed in the very first mining operation. So that was one part that turned out to be useless and in the end was not needed.

Afaik, this mission was done with a stock craft in a 1.45MH stock install - ie no other mods installed besides MH

Imgur album - https://imgur.com/a/Em8z9ej

Tylenol - https://kerbalx.com/mystifeid/Tylenol

Tylo descent

My fat cousin
The Tylenol

Edited September 21, 2018 by mystifeid

[mystifeid]

@dnbattley - you might not be aware that your craft file link returns a 404.

[dnbattley]

13 hours ago, mystifeid said:

@dnbattley - you might not be aware that your craft file link returns a 404.

Great mission report! Thanks for the heads up - I'll investigate and update today, together with adding your impressively functional mission to the leaderboard. EDIT: I forgot to "publish" the craft. Now fixed.

Meanwhile I have almost finished preparing another mission report which should be something quite special...

Edited September 22, 2018 by dnbattley

[mystifeid]

Val started to get restless and so she jumped in the Mohawk and took it for a spin. Not a bad ship but a bit like those wild friends you were quite happy to close your eyes and have some fun with, though you would never take them to meet your parents.

Moho's gravity is about a third of Tylo's so just about anything can land and reorbit without refueling and it was great to be able to leave the ISRU and the rest of the mining gear behind.

However, Val is quite particular about the effect Kerbol has on her luscious green skin so she refuses to use a command seat, preferring the luxury of a capsule instead. Nearly a very costly extravagance as she only managed a Kerbin capture with about 17 units of fuel remaining. Then had to endure about 20 aerobraking orbits before landing.

Again, used a 1.45MH install with no mods. The Mohawk uses only stock parts.

Imgur album - https://imgur.com/a/PH05oZI

The Mohawk - https://kerbalx.com/mystifeid/Mohawk

Val on Moho

The Mohawk - the lander's fuel tank and engine are staged upon regaining orbit to allow the capsule to dock with the nuke booster.

Edited September 22, 2018 by mystifeid

[dnbattley]

Part limit... 42

Eve capable lander cost... 154,766

Your wife leaning on your computer's power button while you were recording the mission... priceless.

*sigh*

 

[Laie]

Is that a Mk2 lander can I see there, so the crew can take a turbolift to the ground floor? Dang, and I hoped I'd garner bonus points for such a move...

What are you trying to lift, btw? Mine's half as massive:

9 Parts, 25 kilofunds. Also unstackable, which is giving me a bit of trouble...

Edit to add:
refuelling on Minmus takes so long that I'm missing my transfer. After several rounds of debugging the vessel, I notice that I brough Bob instead of Bill.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Laie

[dnbattley]

4 hours ago, Laie said:

Is that a Mk2 lander can I see there, so the crew can take a turbolift to the ground floor?

Sort of... it is indeed a Mk2 Lander, for taking 2 Kerbals into orbit: one of them gets to sit in an EVA chair for the duration of the Eve landing (having transferred in orbit). The other one... stays in the lander, on Eve, having overseen the refuelling work...

Sorry Bill: there just wasn't the dV to lift a capsule off, nor the available parts to add a ladder. I promise I'll send someone back for you... at some point.

 

Anyway... new video shot (I've done this mission so many times now I can almost do it blindfolded): just need to clean up the "outtakes" and will then post the whole thing in 10x speed or so... possibly even with some commentary to help explain things.

Landed at 130m above sea level: was pushing for the "platinum" status...

4 hours ago, Laie said:

9 Parts, 25 kilofunds. Also unstackable, which is giving me a bit of trouble...

I fear you might have problems on Eve with that design on both landing stability, ensuring it doesn't "see-saw" in half on lift off (though auto-strut might be strong enough to cope there), and that the dV might only permit a higher altitude landing. Nice simplicity to the design: the majority of the mass of my craft was the booster section just to get itself up to 5000m, ready for the single vector mid-stage to kick in, and even then it had to cope with a few seconds of <1 TWR...

[Laie]

4 hours ago, dnbattley said:

Landed at 130m above sea level: was pushing for the "platinum" status...

I fear you might have problems on Eve with that design on both landing stability, ensuring it doesn't "see-saw" in half on lift off (though auto-strut might be strong enough to cope there), and that the dV might only permit a higher altitude landing. Nice simplicity to the design: the majority of the mass of my craft was the booster section just to get itself up to 5000m, ready for the single vector mid-stage to kick in, and even then it had to cope with a few seconds of <1 TWR...

The wording of this challenge made clear that you know some KSP, and also the forum habits. Have you been around long enough to still remember Eve Rocks?

As for majority of mass, my first stage is 90% of the total mass, gone in sixty seconds (not even), and gets me from sea level* to 600m/s at 10km. Those values are a good deal higher that what I usually have in a first stage. Your 5km is more usual. Anyway, going that fast that low, the second stage must again start with a low TWR or I'd just burn up.

The LFBs have wide bases; this one can stand on it's own on a 10° slope, but I won't try to land it without support. Autostruts alone didn't help, but "rigid attachment" for the decouplers has worked wonders.

--
* well, <200m at any rate. There is some wiggle room, but I'm not sure if I can push it all the way to the shore.

[dnbattley]

7 hours ago, Laie said:

The wording of this challenge made clear that you know some KSP, and also the forum habits. Have you been around long enough to still remember Eve Rocks?

I have seen the Eve Rocks challenge before, but confess I had to refresh myself on its contents: it sadly appears to have fallen into disrepair since 1.0 (and I note your activity on the challenge from 2014: I bow to your long time experience!)...

As to my experience: I've been in and around KSP (and occasionally lurking in this forum, but actively posting on the subreddit) for a few years now, and definitely consider myself in the upper quartile of players, but the funny thing is I only (very) recently got round to actually attempting to land on Eve (as evidenced by my post on the matter).

Hope you get the issues sorted: looking forward to seeing your submission on here in due course

[Laie]

So. Erm. I guess I did it, unless I'm running afoul of the autopilot restrictions. I should have brought an antenna for the lander/lifter rather than the useless command pod (I can't even transfer soil samples to the main vessel, so really it's just to show off).

Craft file is -> here <-

I'm aware that the video is rather terse, but I think I'm still covering all the important bits.

@linuxgurugamer I don't think I'd build such craft without RCS Build Aid. Thanks for keeping it alive!

Edited September 23, 2018 by Laie

[JacobJHC]

@Laie Flawless landing

[dnbattley]

So... in the spirit of keeping up with the neighbours, here is my submission (apologies for a quick and dirty edit job).

Some details have been teased out earlier, but in summary:

Jeb was still waiting in a field outside the KSC after returning from Laythe, so this one was with Val and Bill. 42 parts meant no fuel pump, requiring some... creative first stage antics. Transfer to Eve was uneventful, as was decelerating to LEO. My personal favourite moment was the detachment (somewhere around 00:50) of what KSP regards as "debris", but is in fact essential fuel for a return journey (indeed it was enough for about 3 return journeys, but I like to build in some leeway...).

The low point was when Val sent Bill outside on a made-up errand, and then "detaching" the lander pod. He'll now be calling that pod home for some time to come...

She got her comuppence when she missed the VAB roof by about a metre, and I refused to let her have a do-over...

Craft file here: https://kerbalx.com/dnbattley/The-Impossible42

Technically the craft file above and image below are slightly off per the video as I had replaced the topmost T100 visible with a T400 for an additional source of dV for the main craft in case it was needed for reaching LEO (in the end it wasn't), but the relatively minimal effort of changing them now somehow just seems too high for me, and since it's my challenge anyway, I shall award myself a pass on doing that

3 hours ago, Laie said:

So. Erm. I guess I did it

You sure did! Nailed it too... Congratulations! You are the inaugural Platinum winner. Leaderboard will be updated asap.

Edited September 23, 2018 by dnbattley

[IncongruousGoat]

Hmmm. This is interesting. I'm going to have to take a shot at this, and I already think I know what I'm going to try and do...

The Jool system beckons.

[dnbattley]

6 hours ago, IncongruousGoat said:

The Jool system beckons.

This could be fun...

[Superfluous J]

This seemed a lot more impressive when I recorded it, than it does now after no less than 2 people have done Eve missions.

But anyway here's my 42-parts-to-Tylo mission complete with over-explanation of how to transfer directly to Tylo from Kerbin.

 

[dnbattley]

6 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

This seemed a lot more impressive when I recorded it, than it does now after no less than 2 people have done Eve missions.

That was epic! And a great learning resource to boot. Adding to the leaderboard...

[dnbattley]

To all followers of this challenge:

1. Thank you .

2. Should a 42-piece Jool 5 mission be Gold or Platinum? I'm veering toward the latter, but welcome views.

Yes I am pre-empting the ambition and skill of members of this forum... I'll not be attempting it myself (this week, at least... )

Edited September 24, 2018 by dnbattley

[IncongruousGoat]

1 minute ago, dnbattley said:

To all followers of this challenge:

1. Thank you .

2. Should a 42-piece Jool 5 mission be Gold or Platinum? I'm veering toward the latter, but welcome views.

Gold if it's done with ISRU, platinum if done without. With ISRU, you can get away with only bringing one lander if you show up in a spaceplane for Laythe. Without ISRU it gets a lot more complicated to fit in all the varied gear you need within the part limit.

[sturmhauke]

23 minutes ago, dnbattley said:

Should a 42-piece Jool 5 mission be Gold or Platinum? I'm veering toward the latter, but welcome views.

I recently finished an 811-piece Jool-5 mission. I think a 42-piece mission would be rather more difficult.

[Laie]

My personal benchmark for a well-made SSTA is @astrobonds Jool-5. Away from KSP but I guess it could be stripped down to 42 parts. I've done a good number of SSTAs myself but never could manage anything quite as simple and straightforward. Posting it here might spoil this challenge, I'm afraid... Sorry if I'm a party pooper, but then again, I think it has to be mentioned.

 

[ManEatingApe]

Here's a pure 1.4.5 stock (no MH, no ISRU) entry: Life, the Universe and Eve-returning

Mission profile was straightforward. The main vessel aero-braked into Eve capture, detaching a small return vessel that remained in orbit just before final descent. Jeb went to the surface at 66m altitude and returned in a lander that could reliably almost reach orbit from below 300m.

After Jeb valiantly jet-packed the remaining couple hundred m/s, Valentina retrieved him with the return vessel and returned home safely.

 

Eve descent/ascent highlights in the spoiler and full album here.

Spoiler

Eve aero-braking pushed the inflatable heat shield to its limit.

Floating gently down to the surface like a gossamer thread, next to the shore of a small lake.

On the way up cross feed rules meant we have to manually drop stages when empty (the Vector won't cut out to tell us when).

2nd stage nearly empty, starting a gentle turn.

3rd stage nearly melted Jeb!

Once above 30km altitude the Terrier becomes effective.

We run out of fuel about 200 m/s short. Jump for it Jeb!

 

In a truly Arthur Dent level of absent-mindedness I forgot to uninstall Hyperedit until halfway through the challenge when landed on Eve.

Of course I didn't use it at any point during the mission proper,  however @dnbattley if you feel that disqualifies the attempt then no worries.

Edited September 25, 2018 by ManEatingApe

[dnbattley]

2 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

Of course I didn't use it at any point during the mission proper,  however @dnbattley if you feel that disqualifies the attempt then no worries

We are all people of honour here, and you sir have earned another platinum place: the first without ISRU. Congratulations!

I shall update the leaderboard when next at my computer...

[Laie]

This is a "slightly modified" (mostly, bigger wings) version of the SSTA spaceplane I put up a while earlier, after sucessfully visiting the surface of Tylo. That's a first for me, until now my planes had a tendency to run out of fuel at the last moment, but this once can make the landing with a (small) margin of error.

Plus side: a VTOL Aerospike in the belly that's good for most places, except, of course, Tylo. And, the overall shape means that even after a rear landing, it will certainly fall down on its landing gear.

Problems: the low heat resistance of the wings forces a wasteful ascent, and propulsive deceleration before entry. And, taking off from Tylo is ridiculously dangerous. It requires just the right kind of bump to take off without getting a tailstrike, and then the LF/OX runs out way too soon.

While technically sufficient, it's no fun at all.