maceemiller

I'd forgoton the stock game.....

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Hi all....so ive been playing RSS in KSP 1.3.1 for the last few weeks and decided to just play with the stock system today.....i have to admit, this view after i decoupled really took my breath away.....made me realise you can mod this game to hell but the real beauty is there for everyone :)

ercz6c.png

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It's OK, I keep forgetting what stock Kerbin without EVE and scatterer looks like all the time.

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I cannot play without tweakscale....

Even with no visual mods, I haven't played stock in like three years.

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I just realized that my "Mostly stock" install is at something like 40 mods...

plz send halp

Edit: To be fair, the only part mods are KAS, KIS, KER, BDA, and Pro Props if I remember correctly.

Edited by Ultimate Steve

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1 minute ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I cannot play without tweakscale....

Even with no visual mods, I haven't played stock in like three years.

I try to avoid tweakscale whenever possible.

It used to be that I couldn't play without KER.  That has changed slightly.  After trying a stock + KER game recently, I realize I cannot, I will not, play without KJR as well.  The stock floppiness of any reasonably sized rocket is pure BS.

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2 hours ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I cannot play without tweakscale....

Even with no visual mods, I haven't played stock in like three years.

I mean no offense, but I try as much as possible to avoid tweakscale. (The one exception being that really really big thing........). Found it a bit cheaty tbh.

For me though my critical mods are KER and Editor extensions. Dont know the look of the normal editor anymore......

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2 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

I just realized that my "Mostly stock" install is at something like 40 mods...

plz send halp

Edit: To be fair, the only part mods are KAS, KIS, KER, BDA, and Pro Props if I remember correctly.

Pfft.  What until you crack 200+ and get these in your logfile ...

[LOG 12:04:38.482] [ModuleManager] ModuleManager: 42350 patches applied, found <color=orange>103 errors</color>
[LOG 12:04:38.847] [ModuleManager] Ran in 124.291s
[LOG 12:09:12.806] [ModuleManager] Total loading Time = 526.545s
[LOG 12:09:13.331] Too many Settings pages, 18 pages disabled!!

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I totally feel you there, albeit i just cant stand the way stock looks anymore, too used to SciFiVE+scatterer to probably ever give them up unless by some miracle the devs actually create stock atmosphere effects and things like clouds and dust on planets.

eCHgFak.png

MTn0YCT.png

That and they NEED to do something about the stock sunflare, its atrocious and looks worse then something out of a early 2000s game.

SCqF57Y.png

E3zSa40.png

And yeah, while i dont do it quite that often as i honestly prefer stock combat, BDA does make air combat possible (you CAN do it stock, but its just too much of a pain to setup imo so not worth all the effort, mostly use BDA for air combat, sometimes for ground combat depending on what mood im in).

D1ZDqwE.png

So...um...yeah, i think ill stick to my very lightly modded game, visual mods so that i can actually enjoy the visuals, and occasionally BDA when i wanna do dogfights against AI or make sentry guns that fire at me without requiring manual control.  As for space and space battles, stock all the way!

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On 10/8/2018 at 11:02 PM, Geonovast said:

The stock floppiness of any reasonably sized rocket is pure BS.

Even with rigid attachment on?

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2 hours ago, MR L A said:

Even with rigid attachment on?

It's true....floppy rockets are still a problem.  I launched a small rocket no more than 15 meters tall and it wobbled like hell. 

I had to use autostrut to counter the wobble....the rocket was only 14 parts and was a simple design

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4 hours ago, MR L A said:

Even with rigid attachment on?

Yes.  It also makes them snap.  I also really, really do not want to have to click on every freaking part on a several hundred piece vessel to turn on autostrut or rigid attachment.  Give rigid attachment a global on/off with an effectiveness slider, and we'll talk.

KJR is absolute magic.  I won't play without it.

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On 10/8/2018 at 5:28 PM, qzgy said:
On 10/8/2018 at 2:57 PM, Kernel Kraken said:

I cannot play without tweakscale....

Even with no visual mods, I haven't played stock in like three years.

I mean no offense, but I try as much as possible to avoid tweakscale. (The one exception being that really really big thing........). Found it a bit cheaty tbh.

For me though my critical mods are KER and Editor extensions. Dont know the look of the normal editor anymore......

I'm not sure what's "cheaty" about rescaling fuel tanks or structural parts. It's really useful for those and it makes sense that your engineering team can whip up a smaller or larger strut or nosecone. TweakScale does a really good job of scaling the stats too.

I do avoid scaling any parts with 'worky bits' like Pods, Engines and Science. I would consider changing those to be a bit cheaty, but that doesn't damn the entire mod.

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2 hours ago, Geonovast said:

... I also really, really do not want to have to click on every freaking part on a several hundred piece vessel to turn on autostrut or rigid attachment...

Editor Extensions Redux has some toggles for global autostruts IIRC

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I just jumped on the part mod train a few weeks ago, after playing for a little over a year. I like it here. I might try Eve, it's supposed to be good for potato laptops, right? Or I guess I could fix my actual gaming rig for Christmas.

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6 minutes ago, Dafni said:

Editor Extensions Redux has some toggles for global autostruts IIRC

For autostrut I use Full autostrut, which fully autostrut everything.

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5 hours ago, maceemiller said:

I launched a small rocket no more than 15 meters tall and it wobbled like hell.

Seems weird... I launch rockets taller than that without wobble all the time :s

3 hours ago, Geonovast said:

I also really, really do not want to have to click on every freaking part

You can alter the module so it’s on by default

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On 10/12/2018 at 10:10 PM, Tyko said:

I'm not sure what's "cheaty" about rescaling fuel tanks or structural parts. It's really useful for those and it makes sense that your engineering team can whip up a smaller or larger strut or nosecone. TweakScale does a really good job of scaling the stats too.

I do avoid scaling any parts with 'worky bits' like Pods, Engines and Science. I would consider changing those to be a bit cheaty, but that doesn't damn the entire mod.

With Tweakscale practically always the scaled part is worse than a 'natural' part of that size.

The only exceptions are where said 'natural' don't exist in given size, or you don't care about the specific trade-offs.

E.g. I almost always tweakscale RGU from 1.25 to 0.625 size. It's considerably more expensive but provides SAS modes Hecs doesn't, and gives reaction wheel just good enough for microsats (Hecs is too strong). And is way neater. I also frequently scale batteries up or down; Z-4k to 1.25 giving me a weaker, slimmer, lighter alternative to Z-1k. I definitely prefer to upscale Vernors instead of using several smaller. There's no 0.625m stock Vector, which makes extremely fun engine for lightweight launchers. The radially mounted Thud in its original size is not very useful, but tweakscale it to half the size, and you have a wonderful engine for small landers etc.

Plus some things *just barely* don't fit right. The SPH/VAB trucky is juuust a little too narrow to fit MK2 parts in the back snugly. Scale them to some 85% and you get this.

 

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5 hours ago, Sharpy said:

With Tweakscale practically always the scaled part is worse than a 'natural' part of that size.

The only exceptions are where said 'natural' don't exist in given size, or you don't care about the specific trade-offs.

E.g. I almost always tweakscale RGU from 1.25 to 0.625 size. It's considerably more expensive but provides SAS modes Hecs doesn't, and gives reaction wheel just good enough for microsats (Hecs is too strong). And is way neater. I also frequently scale batteries up or down; Z-4k to 1.25 giving me a weaker, slimmer, lighter alternative to Z-1k. I definitely prefer to upscale Vernors instead of using several smaller. There's no 0.625m stock Vector, which makes extremely fun engine for lightweight launchers. The radially mounted Thud in its original size is not very useful, but tweakscale it to half the size, and you have a wonderful engine for small landers etc.

Plus some things *just barely* don't fit right. The SPH/VAB trucky is juuust a little too narrow to fit MK2 parts in the back snugly. Scale them to some 85% and you get this.

 

Yea, those are all good points and I have a number of rescaled engines and thrusters in my game too. I just have a rule that I don't tweakscale them. Instead I create a new engine using the scaled part. I'll write a new config, give it a new name and balance the stats. This can then be used over an over like any other engine. My fav is actually a half-sized Thud called a Bumper :D . You're welcome to use it, the full engine config is below. (NOTE: I should really check the exhaust plume. I haven't used this in a 1.4.x game yet. If it's off I'll fix and repost.)

I also think batteries aren't dense enough - RL batteries are really fricking heavy for their size - so I wrote a config to halve the size of all surface attach batteries and halve the thickness of stack batteries. Stacked pieces have all kinds of structural elements and cable runs taking up room in that stack part other than just the batteries. I didn't change the battery stats, just made them more dense.

Spoiler

PART
{
    name = BumperRadialEngine
    module = Part
    author = Tyko (Ven Model, NovaSilisko, Porkjet)
    MODEL 
    {
        model = VenStockRevamp/Squad/Parts/Propulsion/Mk55
        scale = 0.5,0.5,0.5
    }
    //rescaleFactor = 1.0
    node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0
    fx_exhaustFlame_blue_small = 0.0, -0.5337813, 0.1355984, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, running
    fx_exhaustLight_blue = 0.0, -0.5337813, 0.1355984, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, running
    sound_vent_medium = engage
    sound_rocket_hard = running
    sound_vent_soft = disengage
    sound_explosion_low = flameout
    TechRequired = advRocketry
    entryCost = 3500
    cost = 820
    category = Engine
    subcategory = 0
    title = LVR-25 "Bumper" Radial Liquid Fuel Engine
    manufacturer = Rockomax Conglomerate
    description = After an intensive search for an engineer crazy enough to plan and build a revolutionary new engine type, researchers turned to renowned engineer Eumon Kerman, one of the top minds in the industry. He failed miserably at the job, and this is what we ended up with. Hey, at least it works well with other large (Rockomax) engines when you want more control. Sorry, no combo deals.
    attachRules = 0,1,0,1,0
    mass = 0.2
    heatConductivity = 0.06 // half default
    skinInternalConductionMult = 4.0
    emissiveConstant = 0.8 // engine nozzles are good at radiating.
    dragModelType = default
    maximum_drag = 0.2
    minimum_drag = 0.2
    angularDrag = 2
    crashTolerance = 7
    breakingForce = 200
    breakingTorque = 200
    maxTemp = 2000 // = 3600
    bulkheadProfiles = srf
    tags = #autoLOC_500450 //#autoLOC_500450 = maneuver manoeuvre orbital propuls rocket (thud thruster vernier
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleEngines
        thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
        exhaustDamage = True
        ignitionThreshold = 0.1
        minThrust = 0
        maxThrust = 25
        heatProduction = 175
        fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.1
        EngineType = LiquidFuel
        exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 0.35
        PROPELLANT
        {
            name = LiquidFuel
            ratio = 0.9
            DrawGauge = True
        }
        PROPELLANT
        {
            name = Oxidizer
            ratio = 1.1
        }
        atmosphereCurve
        {
            key = 0 305
            key = 1 275
            key = 9 0.001
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleGimbal
        gimbalTransformName = Gimbal
        gimbalRange = 8
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = FXModuleAnimateThrottle
        animationName = Thud_Heat
        responseSpeed = 0.002
        //layer = 1
        dependOnEngineState = True
        dependOnThrottle = True
        //weightOnOperational = True
    }


    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleTestSubject
        useStaging = True
        useEvent = True
        situationMask = 127
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = REPEATABILITY
            value = ALWAYS
            prestige = Trivial
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = REPEATABILITY
            value = BODYANDSITUATION
            prestige = Significant
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = REPEATABILITY
            value = ONCEPERPART
            prestige = Exceptional
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDEENV
            test = GT
            value = 4000
            prestige = Trivial
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDEENV
            test = LT
            value = 8000
            prestige = Trivial
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDEENV
            test = GT
            value = 2000
            prestige = Significant
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDEENV
            test = LT
            value = 4000
            prestige = Significant
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDEENV
            test = GT
            value = 1000
            prestige = Exceptional
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDEENV
            test = LT
            value = 2000
            prestige = Exceptional
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDE
            test = GT
            value = 0 // this just registers altitude as something to care about
            situationMask = 8
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDE
            test = LT
            value = 300000
            situationMask = 16
            body = _NotSun
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = ALTITUDE
            test = LT
            value = 600000
            situationMask = 32
            body = _NotSun
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEED
            test = GT
            value = 0
            situationMask = 8
            prestige = Trivial
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEED
            test = LT
            value = 600
            situationMask = 8
            prestige = Trivial
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEED
            test = GT
            value = 300
            situationMask = 8
            prestige = Significant
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEED
            test = LT
            value = 1200
            situationMask = 8
            prestige = Significant
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEED
            test = GT
            value = 600
            situationMask = 8
            prestige = Exceptional
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEED
            test = LT
            value = 2500
            situationMask = 8
            prestige = Exceptional
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEEDENV
            test = LT
            value = 200
            prestige = Trivial
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEEDENV
            test = GT
            value = 100
            prestige = Trivial
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEEDENV
            test = LT
            value = 100
            prestige = Significant
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEEDENV
            test = GT
            value = 50
            prestige = Significant
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEEDENV
            test = LT
            value = 50
            prestige = Exceptional
        }
        CONSTRAINT
        {
            type = SPEEDENV
            test = GT
            value = 20
            prestige = Exceptional
        }
    }
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleSurfaceFX
        thrustProviderModuleIndex = 0
        fxMax = 0.5
        maxDistance = 30
        falloff = 1.7
        thrustTransformName = thrustTransform
    }
}
 

 

Edited by Tyko

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I've started using Tweakscale for large spaceplane wings. It's simpler and saves a lot of parts over a stock constructed wing. I've also started messing with Procedural Wings a bit, but haven't made a finished craft yet.

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On 10/12/2018 at 7:57 PM, Geonovast said:

Yes.  It also makes them snap.  I also really, really do not want to have to click on every freaking part on a several hundred piece vessel to turn on autostrut or rigid attachment.  Give rigid attachment a global on/off with an effectiveness slider, and we'll talk.

KJR is absolute magic.  I won't play without it.

I use full autostrut, that and a bit of manual strutting between stages where autostrut can't counter wobble.

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On 10/8/2018 at 6:34 PM, panzer1b said:

I totally feel you there, albeit i just cant stand the way stock looks anymore, too used to SciFiVE+scatterer to probably ever give them up unless by some miracle the devs actually create stock atmosphere effects and things like clouds and dust on planets.

eCHgFak.png

MTn0YCT.png

That and they NEED to do something about the stock sunflare, its atrocious and looks worse then something out of a early 2000s game.

SCqF57Y.png

E3zSa40.png

And yeah, while i dont do it quite that often as i honestly prefer stock combat, BDA does make air combat possible (you CAN do it stock, but its just too much of a pain to setup imo so not worth all the effort, mostly use BDA for air combat, sometimes for ground combat depending on what mood im in).

D1ZDqwE.png

So...um...yeah, i think ill stick to my very lightly modded game, visual mods so that i can actually enjoy the visuals, and occasionally BDA when i wanna do dogfights against AI or make sentry guns that fire at me without requiring manual control.  As for space and space battles, stock all the way!

*Sees Lens flares*

This post brought to you by the JJ Abrams gang!

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