SPH/VAB Fuel bar controls.(watchCOM/Empty-Fullcontrols)

[Arugela]

I still think one of the most convenient and potentially easiest things they can add is a fuel bar and a way to empty and fill fuel.

I propose it be done exactly like a basic video player.

Buttons:

1. Play/Pause

2. Fast forward/Step

3. Rewind/Step

4. End

5. Beginning

6. Check or button to select whether it not it considered fuel priority in the play cycle.(is there an easy resource cheap way to do this?)

The rest is a basic bar like the most basic and simple of video players. The game then Uses the bars segments to match up to the potential fidelity of the fuel. It should have a button to make it both use and not use potential fuel control values. Then you can watch it empty and fill via both options to see the COM and how it effects the aircraft in VAB/SPH. I imagine this could be done in a way that it never has to touched again programming or design wise relatively. As long as it's done in a way that can consider very large ships so it doesn't crash the game in extreme cases.

You should also be able to press the bar in order to click through to a certain point if desired. This would greatly simplify seeking realities.

It could be a drop down things at the top of the screen or whatnot. Maybe in a similar place to where the fuel display is after going to the runway.

It should also be done in a way that is still usable with ships with huge parts count so it doesn't produce lag and always usable. This is more useful the bigger the ship. In fact it's the fuel empty and fill test is the hardest thing to do as the ship gets larger. The reason I hate redesigning my large ships is never the actual placing of parts. The game makes that very convenient relatively. It's the fuel test for COM vs COL tests that makes it all very annoying. Make this convenient and this game is one very large step forward as far as ship design.

I would think the hardest part is the button to consider fuel priority if it's used in the middle of play. This could be fixed by making it restart. I would think there is some simple logic to make it take over in the middle and play accurately without becoming laggy though.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Arugela

[linuxgurugamer]

So, this would fill/empty ALL tanks on the vessel?  Or stage?

[Arugela]

Whatever it is designed for.

I mostly make SSTO spaceplanes. I might be missing a few considerations for rockets and multistage things.

It could have more buttons added for stagings.

Yes, the point is to make a compact tool to deal with as much as possible realated to watching/testing things related to fuel in the VAB/SPH.

One is filling/emptying fuel tanks overall. The other is watching the COM move. The rest is whatever else is needed to do that as thoroughly as it's designed for.

It could be done where you either simply take the stages apart to test and use the parts integrator(which could always break from bugs) or where it considered staging with buttons somehow. I didn't really consider staging.

Maybe it could be done where you can select a part(s), give it a yellow highlight, and then only, "play," the fuel from that point backwards in the fuel line to isolate parts. Might be some combination of parts selecting(kind of like the buttons for, "Tool:Place, Tool:Rotate," to allow it to isolate parts of the ship.

That just leaves an issue with compact ships where parts overlap and having to move them. Of course you could just let the person making it dig around his own ship to find and click the part also to highlight. Or allow part of the save of the vessel to save those yellow highlights so you can click on staging and mark staging manually(And save them). Then you can simply allow a highlight to find the yellow in all the other colors through the existing parts like the game already does with some other green highlights with mild transparency. That would be much simpler.

It could even save it in regards to the staging bar. Then you can hover over or click the staging bar to see the end and/or beginning of the stage in regards to parts.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Arugela

[Gargamel]

I really like this idea, but I don't see it in stock...  mainly because I think some intrepid modder will beat SQUAD to the punch. 

I know quite a few mods can already differentiate between stages in the VAB/SPH, like MJ/KER, so tapping into those approaches might allow for the automation we are looking for. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Gargamel

[Arugela]

If nothing else a simple way to empty and fill the fuel in all tanks in the VAB/SPH would be ideal. Even without the other aspects thrown in. A simple click for max or empty would be great. Although I suspect there are some relatively simple ways to accomplish all or parts of this. Most or all of which already exists in the game.

I also deleted a part of the idea where instead of the yellow lines(or with them) it lets you, in a special mode, dig through very lightweight(cpu resource wise) version of the parts on the ship by moving the mouse over and having the parts more away from the mouse pointer to find parts in a condensed ship environment to find the parts. The movement would not actually effect COM/COL. It would just be a visual to help find and select parts. It would literally look and work like the fairings do now except in relation to other parts on the ship and not just the fairings own parts. This could aid in selecting parts to apply beginning-end of fuel lines and staging selection.

If they allowed turning entire ships or parts of ships into fairings I wonder how buggy it would be? Could that help with parts count issues? Or would it force changes in the joint logic or something else? Could such a thing be an alternative to the idea of welding? I assume fairings have similar logic as normal parts as they consist of multiple pieces.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Arugela

[Gargamel]

4 hours ago, Arugela said:

A simple click for max or empty would be great.

I'd go for a slider, if we can go full or empty, then a slider shouldn't be that hard to implement too. 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

I can't believe no one has mentioned CorrectCOL yet?

Provides a handy graph showing your planes stability and control authority as the fuel drains, and gives you a pass or fail score at dry stability/control.

That said, I'm all for some sort of stock "Drain all fuel tanks/Fill all fuel tanks" button.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket

[Ruedii]

Currently there are already sliders in the SPH/VAB.

I think it would be nice, though if you could change the fuel level outside of SPH/VAB if in specified areas (Launch pad, or within a certain range of fueling tanks and buildings).  Returning fuel to KSC grants you funds (unless launch site fuel storage is implemented) while drawing fuel costs funds (see mentioned about fuel storage). 

Obviously you can't fuel/refuel solid rockets this way, because they are

Adding quick transfer buttons in this manner to pump fuel to or from tanks from the rest of the tanks on the ship as well.  Pumping fuel should take electricity, but not much when you consider the efficiency of the very small motors Kerbals use in things like reaction wheels. I would recommend something like 0.001 unit of EC per a unit of fuel transfered this should be turned off in easy mode.  (Resource transfers cost electricity).

[Rocket In My Pocket]

1 hour ago, Ruedii said:

Currently there are already sliders in the SPH/VAB.

I think he wants a global slider for all the combined fuel tanks on the craft. I think anyways, he wasn't entirely clear.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, Ruedii said:

Currently there are already sliders in the SPH/VAB

But only for individuall tanks, not all tanks on a stage or all tanks on a vessel.

1 hour ago, Ruedii said:

I think it would be nice, though if you could change the fuel level outside of SPH/VAB if in specified areas (Launch pad, or within a certain range of fueling tanks and buildings).  Returning fuel to KSC grants you funds (unless launch site fuel storage is implemented) while drawing fuel costs funds (see mentioned about fuel storage). 

Only suitable for the launchpad and runways.  Wouldn't make sense to allow changing fuel levels anywhere

1 hour ago, Ruedii said:

Obviously you can't fuel/refuel solid rockets this way, because they are

In the VAB, it does make sense.

1 hour ago, Ruedii said:

Adding quick transfer buttons in this manner to pump fuel to or from tanks from the rest of the tanks on the ship as well.  Pumping fuel should take electricity, but not much when you consider the efficiency of the very small motors Kerbals use in things like reaction wheels. I would recommend something like 0.001 unit of EC per a unit of fuel transfered this should be turned off in easy mode.  (Resource transfers cost electricity).

There are already mods which do this.

[FleshJeb]

3 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

I can't believe no one has mentioned CorrectCOL yet?

 

I’m pretty sure CorrectCOL only considers lift, drag, and angle of attack. RCS Build Aid is the one that shows Full/Half/Empty COMs. I’d link it but I’m on my phone.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

5 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

I’m pretty sure CorrectCOL only considers lift, drag, and angle of attack. RCS Build Aid is the one that shows Full/Half/Empty COMs. I’d link it but I’m on my phone.

"Dry craft pitch/yaw vs. fueled craft pitch/yaw."

If both those are green it'll fly fine full or empty.

You are correct about RCS build aid though, it shows an actual dry mass COM ball for visual comparison if that's what you prefer.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket

[FleshJeb]

27 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

"Dry craft pitch/yaw vs. fueled craft pitch/yaw."

If both those are green it'll fly fine full or empty.

Gah, I’m an idjit, thank you.