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[KSP >= 1.3.0] TweakScale - Under Lisias' Management - 2.4.6.20 - 2023-0126


Lisias
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1 hour ago, BronzeShoe20968 said:

The KSPCF told me this was a issue for what I have right now. ALSO! My log is big so you may have to download it! Please help!.. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y7LF83T518jaP9pfLdmhrrE2A_MtRFYe/view?usp=sharing

(sigh). Of course it's something right now on the KSP, otherwise it would be working! :huh: What's matter is what!!!!

One of the problems I already had found, you have BDArmory installed twice!

[LOG 12:38:41.324] Duplicate DLLs found: C:/Program Files (x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/Kerbal Space Program/KSP_x64_Data/../GameData/BDArmory.dll : C:/Program
 Files (x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/Kerbal Space Program/KSP_x64_Data/../GameData/BDArmory\Plugins\BDArmory.dll

And, yeah, you managed to install BDArmory directly into the GameData, instead of a BDArmory inside the GameData….

Oukey, we need to go nuclear on this one. Remove everything from GameData, except by "Squad" and "SquadExpansion".

If you are willing to retry installing things manually, do not install all at once - this will make things harder as you won't know when it's something you did wrong, or when it's something someone else did wrong.

Install 4 or 5 add'ons you want more. Run KSP, see if everything is fine. Then install more, rinse repeat.

Once you find something wrong, you have only up to 5 suspects to check them out - way easier than all at once as we have now.

Even if you choose to use CKAN, do this way: install only up to 5 add'ons at once, and roll back in the exact instant things get broken.

When KSP gets broken, all you have to do is to uninstall the last 5 you installed one by one until the problem goes away. The last add'on you uninstalled before making KSP work again was the trigger (not always the culprit). Now, you can send us the KSP.log telling exactly what was the add'on that triggered the problem, and things will be way easier to diagnose!

To learn how to use CKAN, try youtube (I can't suggest a video, as I don't use ckan myself). You can also look for support on the CKAN's thread.

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31 minutes ago, BronzeShoe20968 said:

anyways im done with this

 

im just going to not use ckan and carefully reinstall some mods

I really don't like CKAN personally.

Manual installs are the way to go most of the time and has never caused me problems where the solution wasn't "Delete the last mod you downloaded and report a probem to the creator" 

Also, even if you get CKAN you need a fresh install or it can really bork installs. (I'm speaking from experience)

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42 minutes ago, BronzeShoe20968 said:

like NSI There isnt a checkmark box? idk what that means

It means it’s not officially compatible with your version of KSP.  You can click on a mod, then go to the versions tab and select the one you want to force it to install anyway.  You can also go to settings -> edit compatible game versions to blanket allow all mods for specific older versions. This is mostly safe for 1.8 and later, but installing things from 1.7 and earlier can very likely break your game.

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On 10/10/2022 at 9:43 PM, BronzeShoe20968 said:

Try this thing: 

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScaleCompanion_SMCE/releases

It fixes some of the problems I diagnosed in the past relate to some SMCE add'ons. READ THE INSTALL INSTRUCTIONS, I had to overwrite some files from LShipParts as I couldn't find a way to fix them.

 

14 hours ago, bigyihsuan said:

the joys of wanting to play ro without ro

I want to scale ALL parts by 1.6x. Is this patch correct?

@PART[*]:NEEDS[TweakScale]:FINAL
{
	%rescaleFactor = 1.6
}

It's simple enough that it feels correct enough to work first try.

It will work for the meshes for sure, and perhaps to some stock modules (assuming they look into it, of course). But it will probably not work for custom modules.

TweakScale works because I write "receipts" for scaling each known PartModule in the game (it's the reason you need to write patches!).

For example, I don't know if a Stock Part will have the Resources it withholds correctly scaled up, but I know for sure that Custom Fuel Switches will not - not to mention the PartModuleVariant stunt...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi there,

Trying to run Tweakscale as a dependency to KSP Interstellar and I get the famous Tweakscale DLL missing issue.

Here's my most recent log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqg6ijjlikdzyd5/KSP.log?dl=0

The game starts if I ignore the error but things very quickly start breaking in the VAB

I'm using CKAN.

Any ideas what could be causing this and what the first steps for a fix could be?

Edited by Brisingr
Clarifying I'm using CKAN.
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8 hours ago, Brisingr said:

Hi there,

Trying to run Tweakscale as a dependency to KSP Interstellar and I get the famous Tweakscale DLL missing issue.

Here's my most recent log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqg6ijjlikdzyd5/KSP.log?dl=0

The game starts if I ignore the error but things very quickly start breaking in the VAB

I'm using CKAN.

Any ideas what could be causing this and what the first steps for a fix could be?

Is there a reason you're using ksp 1.7?  The error here is that Interstellar Fuel Switch is built for a later version of KSP.   It does look like the CKAN metadata says it's for 1.4.2-1.9 but that seems to be incorrect (and it's a huge red flag that it crosses the 1.8 boundary).  IFS 3.14.0.1 looks like it would probably work.

But really, there's nearly no reason to not be using the latest version of KSP.  Almost all mods that were built for 1.8+ will work on it.

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21 hours ago, Brisingr said:

Hi there,

Trying to run Tweakscale as a dependency to KSP Interstellar and I get the famous Tweakscale DLL missing issue.

Here's my most recent log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gqg6ijjlikdzyd5/KSP.log?dl=0

The game starts if I ignore the error but things very quickly start breaking in the VAB

I'm using CKAN.

Any ideas what could be causing this and what the first steps for a fix could be?

@JonnyOThan nailed it. Thanks dude! ;)

 

13 hours ago, JonnyOThan said:

Is there a reason you're using ksp 1.7? 

Well… yes, there's. :)

On older computers with GPUs with 1G RAM (or even less), KSP 1.7.3 is the last one that runs reasonably fine. From KSP1.8 to KSP 1.11.x we had a lot of new bugs that may hinder the gameplay for some people, but the real problem is the textures. On KSP 1.12.3 the textures are so too big for anything using a shared memory GPU with less than 2GB of VRAM (my case, by the way), so you need to lower the Texture Quality to a point that the part of the User Interface become ridiculous - not to mention that all the textures will be downscaled, not only Squad's - and so all your perfectly fine add'ons will be ugly as hell.

I talked about the issue here.

And this is the reason I'm still using KSP 1.7.3 on some of my savegames, and - try to to laugh - 1.4.3 on some others. KSP 1.4.3 is simply the best somewhat modern KSP that runs perfectly on my i7 MacMini with Intel HD4000 GPU.

From KSP 1.8. things just got downhill for me.

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Hi @Lisias just a request... if it's not too hard, please add Simple Fuel Switch support. It works if you switch the fuel type (LFO/LF) first and then tweak the size but not the other way. Switching type after tweaking resets to stock fuel capacity. I'm building a SSTO and need to adjust LF/ OX ratio and I can't do it without rebuilding some of it now. 

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Hi there. Currently trying to move all of my mods from 1.3 (Yeah, I've held off this painful process for THAT long) to 1.12.3
Have gotten quite a lot of everything to work for this so far and it's going well, but Tweakscale is being a bit of a mess. I had it working with only stockparts and no mods. Please note I had to delete one of the watchdog DLLs (I kept the 666 one). So it was working ok there.
It broke when I tried to add any other parts to it and shows the UI on the interface.
I am using latest ModuleManager and the KSP Recall as well.
I keep getting either "Delete one of the watchdog DLLs" (I tried both), "Delete one of the Rescale DLLs) (Tried both, made sure there was only one), or just a vague Tweakscale can't find the correct DLLs. Also have  "system.reflection.reflectiontypeloadexception was thrown" whatever that means.
I could really use some insight on workarounds because tweakscale is basically a must have at this point. Would hate to have to go back to 1.3 now cause I like the other changes and mods I've seen. 
I'm not new to modding, just this one is really defeating me. Been at it for hours. Appreciate the help in advance, thanks. 

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46 minutes ago, FullOfStars said:

system.reflection.reflectiontypeloadexception

This exception means you either have something that was built for an incompatible version of the game, or you have a mod that is missing hard dependencies.  If it's the latter, you should see "filenotfoundexception" nearby in the logs.

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I've got some buoyancy issues. Reading upthread I see why the behaviour is confused for parts which don't have straight-up cubic scaling. However, I'd expect for a part that does if (say) you double the linear dimensions, the mass is 8x as large, the drag cube has 8x the volume, the part floats much the same.

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/floaty.craft is a stock craft which doesn't exhibit this behaviour. As is, it floats with the waterline just under halfway up the tanks, as I might expect. (It's mostly easily got in the sea by using the Mod+F12 menu to move it to longitude -70 with pitch -90). Scale up the tanks by 2x (not touching the panels), and the waterline is far lower down the tanks. (Of course, the panels should weigh about 7 tonnes more if the whole thing was scaled but sticking a bit of extra mass on top makes no difference).

Even more oddly, if I take a single Mk2 LF tank and scale it up even to 10m scale and drop that in the sea, it floats with the water about halfway up it. Zoomed out it isn't really distinguishable from the same tank at normal scale. So why does turning them edge-down make all the difference?

(The KSP install I tried was unmodded other than TweakScale, KSP Recall, and Module Manager.)

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7 hours ago, JonnyOThan said:

This exception means you either have something that was built for an incompatible version of the game, or you have a mod that is missing hard dependencies.  If it's the latter, you should see "filenotfoundexception" nearby in the logs.

Alright, so take a look at the logs and look for the specific file? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that tweakscale is the one giving me that issue when I can have it working with normal stock 1.12. Even if there was a part that wasn't tweakscale compatible, would it crash itself trying to make it work instead of just ignoring this?

The two different watchdog DLLs is another issue, and I'm hoping I'm right in that you have to replace the original watchdog with the 666 DLL from recall. 

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15 hours ago, Krazy1 said:

Hi @Lisias just a request... if it's not too hard, please add Simple Fuel Switch support. It works if you switch the fuel type (LFO/LF) first and then tweak the size but not the other way. Switching type after tweaking resets to stock fuel capacity. I'm building a SSTO and need to adjust LF/ OX ratio and I can't do it without rebuilding some of it now. 

I had put it on the backlog, unfortunately pending Real Life™ agreement. :(

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScaleCompanion_FuelSwitches/issues/5

 

10 hours ago, FullOfStars said:

Hi there. Currently trying to move all of my mods from 1.3 (Yeah, I've held off this painful process for THAT long) to 1.12.3

I completely understand you. I'm still playing on 1.4.3 on some savegames… :)

 

10 hours ago, FullOfStars said:

Have gotten quite a lot of everything to work for this so far and it's going well, but Tweakscale is being a bit of a mess. I had it working with only stockparts and no mods. Please note I had to delete one of the watchdog DLLs (I kept the 666 one). So it was working ok there.

Well.. The mess is not from TweakScale. It happens that KSP has some internal bugs that, unfortunately, were being downplayed by the developers and also by some relevant add'on authors, and when some of these bugs bites TweakScale, it is rendered ineffective. And when this happens, all your scaled parts are screwed on savegame loading - for good.

If you are on the gory details mood, search for "Assembly Resolver/Loader".

Please note that this affects EVERYTHING, not only TweakScale. Anyone, absolutely anyone that have a custom data into the PART gets screwed when it's bitten by these KSP bug. It only happens that TweakScale is checking for the problem and yelling when it detects it, preventing you from loading and corrupting your savegames.

 

10 hours ago, FullOfStars said:

Please note I had to delete one of the watchdog DLLs (I kept the 666 one). So it was working ok there.

Humm… There's a bug on ZeroMiniAVC (I think) where it's checking for duplicated DLLs where it should not - anything inside a directory called PluginData is plain ignored by KSP, and I use this place for integrity checks and seamless updates.

This is unfortunate, because the alternative will be to obfuscate these DLLS, and this is really bad because it's how viruses work and I don't want to risk being flagged as one.

Please send me the KSP.log so I can check this for you.

 

10 hours ago, FullOfStars said:

I keep getting either "Delete one of the watchdog DLLs" (I tried both), "Delete one of the Rescale DLLs) (Tried both, made sure there was only one), or just a vague Tweakscale can't find the correct DLLs. Also have  "system.reflection.reflectiontypeloadexception was thrown" whatever that means.

I think you have multiple problems happening at once. Please send me your KSP.log using dropbox or similar service - don't try to copy & paste it here, it will screw up Forum, and it will be truncated anyway, rendering it useless.

 

10 hours ago, FullOfStars said:

I could really use some insight on workarounds because tweakscale is basically a must have at this point. Would hate to have to go back to 1.3 now cause I like the other changes and mods I've seen. 

Yep. I know of some users that install TweakScale only for the safety checks, completely ignoring the feature itself (I think one of them even deleted the patches… :P ).

KSP is being plagued by multiple bugs for years - did you know that if you have more than one ModuleManager installed, the oldest one is used instead of the newer one since KSP 1.8? This are that bad, and it's the reason WatchDog and TweakScale are extremely picky about things.

There's no "simple solutions" anymore, people going to the easiest path are making things worse.

 

10 hours ago, FullOfStars said:

I'm not new to modding, just this one is really defeating me. Been at it for hours. Appreciate the help in advance, thanks. 

Many things had changed. Some tricks that used to work in the past now cause problems - it's five years of piling changes to cope with…. 

If you have a somewhat older rig, I suggest you read these two threads two:

Spoiler

 

 

6 hours ago, damerell said:

I've got some buoyancy issues. Reading upthread I see why the behaviour is confused for parts which don't have straight-up cubic scaling. However, I'd expect for a part that does if (say) you double the linear dimensions, the mass is 8x as large, the drag cube has 8x the volume, the part floats much the same.

Buoyancy apparently was an afterthought on KSP, as the drag cubes were used to simulate it.

Problem: I need to scale the drag cubes, otherwise the parts will have a very unfair drag, so it's a catch22 situation for now.

I demonstrated the problem on this video:

I have a task for it here: https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/252 (pending Real Life™ agreement, unfortunately…)

 

1 hour ago, FullOfStars said:

Alright, so take a look at the logs and look for the specific file? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that tweakscale is the one giving me that issue when I can have it working with normal stock 1.12. Even if there was a part that wasn't tweakscale compatible, would it crash itself trying to make it work instead of just ignoring this?

You are right in the sense it's not (at 99.99% of the time at least) a problem on TweakScale, however TweakScale is deadly affected by it, so I had to code that "Houston" thingy to prevent users from losing the savegames.

(again, I want to stress out that TS is not the only one suffering - but it's the only one complaining about, as it appears).

 

1 hour ago, FullOfStars said:

The two different watchdog DLLs is another issue, and I'm hoping I'm right in that you have to replace the original watchdog with the 666 DLL from recall. 

Publish your KSP.log on dropbox or something, please. I think I need to inspect this one.

There're safeties coded on MMWD that may be at jeopardy due this, and if this is the case, I unfortunately will be forced to code a less than sympathetic counter-measure - or hell will be unleashed on me again!

Edited by Lisias
brute force post merging
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18 minutes ago, Lisias said:

 

Publish your KSP.log on dropbox or something, please. I think I need to inspect this one.

 

Try these, lemme know if the perms are good or not. Havent used Dropbox in a while. Let me know if these are the logs you wanted. I am aware I think a B9 partswitch is acting up as well. I got rid of some earlier issues by upgrading Fuelswitch and Rasterprop monitor. So far I've got all my other mods except that partswitch working alright.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fa4lfg6plohetvv/MMPatch.log?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gdx4zet3i6vzzs6/ModuleManager.log?dl=0

Personally to me, it seems that the DLL's are to blame and not loading properly because when I had it working with no other parts or mods, it was because I deleted either the stock scale reconfig in tweakscale or a watchdog module or one of those. After 10 hours of back and forth trying to reinstall and remove and get it working can't remember specifically, but it was a DLL issue and when I cleared that up (again on stock), I had tweakscale working with KSP recall momentarily. 

The 666 and the 999 seem to be in conflict with an earlier version of these DLL's that do not have the number associations in front of them, and I'm having trouble figuring out which is which. 

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2 hours ago, FullOfStars said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1bn3qoz6ufehwt/KSP.log?dl=0
Think I forgot to add this one too. 

Oukey, I'm finding my way on the mess.

For starters, I need to do a better job on reporting problems o MMWD, a few more line of code and you could be able to help yourself on this one.

Delete this file:

[LOG 14:17:14.323] AssemblyLoader: Loading assembly at C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\MagicSmokeIndustries\Plugins\Scale_Redist.dll

The only "good" file is the "C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\999_Scale_Redist.dll" . Let me explain to you and everybody else why this is happening nowadays (on a spoiler if you don't want to read it):

Spoiler

On KSP versions earlier than 1.8.0, it was possible to load more than one copy of the same Assembly into memory. This was not an error, but it was not a good thing neither, because every "incarnation" of the Assembly was being loaded into a new "Application Domain", a kind of sandbox the C# runtime uses internally to keep strict separation between the internal virtual machines. If you are on the Java thing, the Java equivalent is ClassLoader.

TL;DR: A Virtual Machine eats a lot of memory, so instead of instancing many VMs, one for each process, you instance only one and load each "process" into its own sandbox inside the VM - so they can optimise their memory usage.

Problem: on C#, each AppDomain can't make direct calls into onther, all you can do is to do RPC (a long and costly way to simulate calls over a wire, making use of a thingy called "Data Serialization"). This is fine when you are calling a RPC from another machine (sometimes in the other side of the World), but it's plain stupid when you are on the same machine or, worst, on the same process!

But yet, it was what happening on KSP!

By some reason beyound my comprehension, it was decided it would be a good idea to have many redundant DLLs around and let them sort the mess themselves. Module Manager was one of these guys, and when it detected multiple copies, they elected between themselves who will be the one to take over being the rest unloaded. It kinda worked, but at a cost: form this point, every time MM has to call someone, or someone has to call MM, it was done by that costly RPC I mentioned above. So everything was slower from that point.

On KSP 1.8.0 things started to change (for the better, most of the time at least), and one of the things that changed was that this problem of multiple AppDomains were solved by allowing only the first Assembly of each type to be loaded, and any other one would be "short circuited" into the first one loaded, essentially preventing new AppDomains from being created and solving the performance penalty.

BUT...

It caused as colateral effect that whatever was the first thing to be loaded, it will prevail and we can't detect the problem form inside the Assembly code anymore.

Since on KSP things are loaded in the alphabetical order, older versions of the DLL are usually loaded first - and then you will have old bugs lingering around even with the new DLL is available!

Worst! You can have everything installed right, but then you install something slightly older that have an older version of MM and then you inject a older MM into the system, and then suddenly you have an older MM working instead of the one you wanted to use.

And this happens with everybody else too, including the Scale_Redist.dll.

This is the reason that I had to shove the 999_Scale_Redist.dll into GameData, because i need to be sure the right DLL is the first one to be loaded!!

I choose to do not yell on duplicate DLLs that I don't know if it will be a problem because I didn't wanted to create the "Cry Wold" effect. TweakScale and ModuleManagerWatchDog are already pesky enough, so I choose to only detect and complain when I am absolutely sure this is a problem.

Module Manager, Scale_Redist, Interstellar_Redist and the ModuleManagerWatchDog itself are the ones I know for sure can't coexist with doppelgängers, so I only coded safeties for them.

Anything else are handled as they are reported.

Your second problem appears to be PatchManager:

[LOG 14:17:14.378] AssemblyLoader: Loading assemblies
[WRN 14:17:14.380] AssemblyLoader: Assembly 'PatchManager' has not met dependency 'ClickThroughBlocker' V1.0.0
[WRN 14:17:14.380] AssemblyLoader: Assembly 'PatchManager' has not met dependency 'ToolbarController' V1.0.0
[WRN 14:17:14.380] AssemblyLoader: Assembly 'PatchManager' is missing 2 dependencies

It is triggering that Assembly Loader/Resolver bug on KSP I mentioned above.

Spoiler

The Assembly Loader/Resolver bug happen when someone fails to load a dependency.

When this happens, something inside it gets broken and from that point, everything and the kitchen's sink fails on loading dependencies no matter the dependency is there or not.

This bug is on KSP since the beginning of time, I think. And it is a very serious problem because once a PartModule is not loaded, all its data from a savegame is wiped off - inclusing from the living crafts flying around your Kerbol System.

All parts with TweakScale will be reset to default. All parts with a Fuel Switch will lose the fuel and the fuel option. All Texture Replacements will be lost. EVERYTHING that fails to be loaded will cause your parts to be reset to default.

This will DESTROY your savegame.

But yet, this nasty bug is being downplayed by 3rds parties that logs "This is mostly harmless" on the KSP.log - and so the user believing the misrepresentation loads its savegame and get it corrupted on the spot.

Remove PatchManager and see if it solves the problem.

If not, send me a new KSP.log and I will keep digging  - you have MechJeb2 installed and it somehow mangles a bit how things are loaded, and then my diagnosing tools are not reliable. Usually , the first DLL to throw a ReflectionException are the trigger of the problem, but when MechJeb2 is installed this is not always true anymore.

Additionally, your KSP.log was truncated before the Main Menu being shown. This happens because KSP has an internal buffer to avoid hitting the hard disk all the time (what would make things slower), but the price we pay for it is that it takes some time until the internal buffer is flushed into the file. Usually it's better to quit KSP before copying the files - or alternativelly starting some disposable savegame (or just a new bogus one) and then copy the KSP.log file later, as by then the new log entries had already forced the ones I'm interested to be flushed into the file!

Cheers!

Edited by Lisias
Forgot the second spoiler.
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29 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Oukey, I'm finding my way on the mess.

...

Cheers!

Thank you so much for taking time to look into this. I'll work on looking at sorting all this out in my files and report back. Let me know if at this point I can help in any other way by removing/adding/or restructuring to make this an easier process for fellow players in the future. 

I knew that there had to be some other DLL causing an issue I just absolutely could not find it. I'll be honest, I don't have the best eyes and am not that versed on the coding/log/error side of modding. You taking the time to explain is very much appreciated because it means I know what to look for in the future and am learning the vocabulary to talk about the problems I'm experiencing. 

Will report back soon. 

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Sorry to be a pain but I have zero mini AVC installed and get a warning about scale_redist.DLL being in multiple mods folders eg
cbSPVnd.png

Now should I keep it in the FAR folder I do have latest Tweakscale installed.

this is also the same for the infernal robotics mod I get a warning about the same .dll file.

Thanks in advance

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1 minute ago, stk2008 said:

Sorry to be a pain but I have zero mini AVC installed and get a warning about scale_redist.DLL being in multiple mods folders

<…>

this is also the same for the infernal robotics mod I get a warning about the same .dll file.

Thanks in advance

Yes, this is an issue indeed: you need to delete the doppelgänger DLL to prevent trouble (my last post explains in details why this is terrible).

The only Scale_Redist.dll that should be allowed to be loaded by KSP is the GameData/999_Scale_Redist.dll one.

Cheers!

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Okay, I have -partial- success with Tweakscale and Recall now!!
It was indeed the duplicate DLLs and Patchmanager interferring.
I am noticing that it is very selective on which parts have Tweakscale enabled, but, this could just be because I do not understand enough about how Tweakscale works. Maybe there are some configs that need tweaking to enable all parts? A little explanation on how a part is actually tweakscale enabled could be beneficial por please. 

If I remember, I did it once with the LLL parts. I had to like, put a line of code in the part config itself and then a line in like a Tweakscale list or something. Was a few years ago.

Is there any specific way to have this applicable across all parts in an easy way?

Edited by FullOfStars
Sorry, meant to ask a question.
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