Lisias

[KSP >= 1.4.1] TweakScale - Under Lisias' Management - 2.4.3.10 - 2019-1030

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6 hours ago, Lisias said:

I finally realized why so many complains about TweakScale not working. Manual installers, sometimes, doesn't knows how to check for KSP compatibility on CurseForge!

So I wrote an article on my site's Support page - and decided to copy&paste it too here, for your convenience:

  Reveal hidden contents

How to check TweakScale (and any other Add'On) KSP Compatibility on CurseForge

On the CurseForge main page for the Add'On, on this link for TweakScale, you will get something like this

CurseForge TweakScale Main Page

You will find the latest KSP version supported by the releases on this page, as this detail shows:

Max KSP version supported detail

On the Files link (in yellow above), you can get the listing of every release for the Add'On. TweakScale, at the present time, has these ones:

Current Releases for an Add'On

In Green the place where the latest KSP Version is supported, as well a counter telling how many KSP versions the release supports. Yep, you had read right - TweakScale supports 13 KSP Versions on the same binary (1.7.3 plus 12).

In Yellow, more links that will lead you to the Details page of the Release, with detailed :) information about it:

Detailed Informtion for a Release Release

At least TweakScale provides a very detailed Change Log too, explaining what had changed and advising any precautions you should have while updating.

Please help to spread the word. :)

Lisias I for sure appreciate everything you do, thanks for your hard work

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2 hours ago, MikeO89 said:

I still can't even get this game to start since 1.8. I'm stubbornly not removing my mods, instead waiting and hoping for some mod updates that might fix my problem. The thought of losing all the stuff I've built just makes me ........................... I recently installed a mod called Madlad which I guess checks for bad mods during start up. Boy it sure doesn't like Tweakscale. Throws out in your face messages about not proceeding with it in it's current version.

If the warning you got it's something like this:

687474703a2f2f6b73702e6c69736961732e6e65

The message is from TweakScale. TweakScale currently doesn't works on KSP 1.8 due some things gone broken on the UI. At the time I updated TweakScale to block itself from running on KSP 1.8, I didn't detected yet what was happening, and wrongly had concluded that it was TweakScale fault - so I recooked the Houston to prevent running on KSP 1.8 until I have things figured out.

Right now, I have things figured out. But doesn't had time to implement a probable fix for the problem - being that some UI Controls from KSP being completely unusable (as UI_ScaleEdit, the one TweakScale uses). UI_FloatEdit is borked too, as TweakScale once used it on the past and I thought it would try a shot, but that is faulty too. Worse, while half a dozen Add'On were using UI_ScaleEdit, a huge amount of Add'Ons are using UI_FloatEdit - and this mishap alone had broken a log of Add'Ons, being TweakScale only one of them.

There's nothing to be done except wait for the next TweakScale release (date to be defined) - or waiting KSP 1.8.1 in the hopes bug #24014 be accepted and fixed.

— POST EDIT --

I checked MADLAD source code, it checks for JSON compliance of the .Version files, apparently (didn't really dug into the code, just saw the logging code). Well, I leaked a faulty json on SpaceDock and CurseForge, so this can be the complaining about. I'm keeping MADLAD on my testing beds for while, until I fix my automation tools to use better (whinny) tools.

— — — — — — — 

4 hours ago, astro88 said:

Lisias, I am getting this fatal error again on the Z-200 Battery Bank. You had helped me a few months ago resolve this problem but it's occurring again and the fix I applied previously doesn't seem to be working. Here are screenshots of my log showing the error and my ModuleManager.ConfigCache showing what I did last time. Tweakscale has updated and so I thought that might have been the issue. I let CKAN do the update and I applied the fix to the configcache file and it still is giving me the error.

 

Hi! Yep, this part is somewhat popular, isn't? :)

I need the full KSP.log and almost sure I will need ModuleManager.CacheConfig to get this figured out, as I also agree it appears to be something new. I'm around the whole weekend, as I have some due duties to fulfill (what you don't do on weekdays, you do on weekends on my line of duty!! - but I don't have workdays "pressure", things are light on weekdays even when I work).

See ya!

Edited by Lisias
POST EDIT.

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19 hours ago, MikeO89 said:

 I'm stubbornly not removing my mods

Dude, you are my hero. I'm exactly like you when I'm coding - I will hack my way into the solution, or I will hack the solution into the problem :D

That's the catch: you can click Cancel and go on. Now I know that everything is working fine inside TweakScale (I didn't knew last week, I choose to be on the safe side. Things can go through the tubes pretty fast when TweakScale misbehave). You will not be able to EDIT any scale on new or existent crafts, but they will work.

But, as I always ask, use SAVE. It is working fine on KSP 1.8, by the way (Thanks Krakens for this!). Give a huge "thanks" to Nereid about it, by the way - he is saving Kerbal arses around here. :)

Edited by Lisias
really, why auto-correctors do this to me?

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15 hours ago, Lisias said:

You will not be able to EDIT any scale on new or existent crafts, but they will work.

@Lisias Actually something interesting happens on my end.  I have been stubborn, and refused to remove tweakscale.  I'm no modder or coder, so I expected my save to bork (and followed the advise to use S.A.V.E.)  I get the white box instead of the scale UI, but if I click on the left side of the white box, at the VERY edge, down just about half way, I can increase scale.  Clicking above that, or anywhere else on the box and it decreases scale.  ;)  Anyway, I read something that linuxgurugamer posted saying it's a broken aspect that is planned to be repaired in 1.8.1 release.  So it may not be your mod at all, but a bug on their end. Regardless, I love your work.  Thanks for your time and effort on all of this!

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6 hours ago, StoneWolfPC said:

@Lisias Actually something interesting happens on my end.  I have been stubborn, and refused to remove tweakscale.  I'm no modder or coder, so I expected my save to bork (and followed the advise to use S.A.V.E.)  I get the white box instead of the scale UI, but if I click on the left side of the white box, at the VERY edge, down just about half way, I can increase scale.  Clicking above that, or anywhere else on the box and it decreases scale. 

There're heroes everywhere!!!! :)

I didn't knew about the scaling down, just the up - but since I spent way more time researching workarounds than playing on the last 10 days, it's not exactly something I gave a throughtful thinking.

 

6 hours ago, StoneWolfPC said:

@Lisias Anyway, I read something that linuxgurugamer posted saying it's a broken aspect that is planned to be repaired in 1.8.1 release.  So it may not be your mod at all, but a bug on their end.

Yep. We (Add'On authors) had tracked down the whole thing. 

The thing is that, when that fine pieces of paper hit the turbofan last week :sticktongue:, we did't knew anything about - and since TweakScale had some glitches in the past when new Unity versions came, I promptly though it could had bitten us again and rush to check some still lingering technical debits I have on it.

By Friday, I decided to hit the "Panic" button and rush a released blocking TweakScale from running on Unity 2018 without a scaring warning about, because I still wasn't convinced about ruling out a TweakScale glitch on the event handling, or some other trick that were running fine on Unity 2017 but ended up blowing up on 2019 (you know, "Contracts" are broken now and then).

Only on Saturday I could spare a timeframe long enough in order to get something deeply an… hum…. verified :sticktongue: . You need some long consecutive hours of thinking in order to "get in" #tronFeelings and start to realize things.

Besides UI_ScaleEdit borking only a few Add'Ons (TweakScale and 2 or 3 more), UI_FloatEdit did a lot of breakage. A search on Github will give you the scenario.

 

6 hours ago, StoneWolfPC said:

Regardless, I love your work.  Thanks for your time and effort on all of this!

Thanks, dude. You are appreciated! :) Glad of be of (good) service.

Edited by Lisias
false cognates bite! But Autocompletes bites more...

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Yeah, you should see how vast my list of mods has gotten with 1.8 having been such a major increase in game performance.......  In fact as each mod is updated to fit, my processor is handling itself at ultra 2k with less and less issue, and I am able to maintain a stable (ish) 40 fps during launch on some of my more complex builds.  Mods included.  I don't know how you all have time to do this, and still live, but then I have put in 400 hours on KSP in a month, and still have time to be a (hopefully) very good dad lmao. 

 

Before I forget, and I'm sure this has been thought of already (may be a limitation).  An improvement perhaps?  Crew cabins, on rescale do not add crew capacity?  I can see that more seating would probably be needed so it may not be possible.  I just thought if you can increase fuel (but that one makes far more sense) maybe......?  Anyhow, it's not a deal breaker in the slightest........ I rarely scale the crew cabins lmao.

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And this, my friends, is why patches for Serenity are still incredibly alpha. :D

You can't just shove new patches and expect everything to work at first. I'll probably need to cook a behaviour for the Serenity motors/hingers, or perhaps on the blades. :D

0007.gifhttp://ksp.lisias.net/showcase/add-ons/TweakScale/2019-1026_KSP173-and-Serenity-First-Trials/

Things works fine with Unbreakable Joints (and without it, when I compiling things on the rig the craft explodes by standing still, what hints the problem is the CPU out of juice for the physics engine), and I can't use autostruts or EAS on the blades (it's what exploded the vessel above).

Well.. Fun. :)

Edited by Lisias
edit link to image

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Well, mine didn't do that..... but it no more than takes flight and instantly starts to loose control to the point it may as well be a bomb.  I don't have a screenshot for it, because I got so mad I gave up and reverted to a prior save. lol

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6 hours ago, StoneWolfPC said:

Well, mine didn't do that..... but it no more than takes flight and instantly starts to loose control to the point it may as well be a bomb.  I don't have a screenshot for it, because I got so mad I gave up and reverted to a prior save. lol

You have to have a near perfect alignment between the CoM and the CoL of the blades. Tricky, KSP UI don't help us too much on this.

I managed to make the thing to fly by using a somewhat big Reaction Wheel (Scaled, obviously :D ) and picking some airspeed before taking off, so the control surfaces can have some authority.

I put the link for the craft file, as well some minimalistic instructions on how to forge a 2.5.x.x installment  on the first image of this series if someone is willing to suffer, I mean, try it. ;) 

Edited by Lisias
Being constantly interrupted while writing posts is not good for grammars or cohesion….

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So if I understand correctly, the problem is the 1.8 update and we need to wait for the 1.8.1 for the fix?

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On 10/26/2019 at 9:43 PM, viperwolf said:

So if I understand correctly, the problem is the 1.8 update and we need to wait for the 1.8.1 for the fix?

Essentially: Yes, and perhaps.

Yes, it's something on KSP 1.8 (not Unity). Assuming I managed to track down the problem correctly, a paid Asset from Unity Store gone EoL and is not available anymore for (legal) downloading, and the lack of that asset (or perhaps it plain stop working on 2019 and nobody noticed) broke everybody that was using UI_ScaleEdit (me and 2 or 3 more), UI_FloatRange (a lot of people, really) and UI_FloatEdit (not that much as Range, but a respectable bunch). [I didnt. It was a good guess, but it was discovered - see below - that there're special situations where the thing works. I think by know it was a racing condition somewhere on the initialization process, but it could be also a bug on a specific sub-system of that feature. KSP 1.8.1 has it fixed.]

Perhaps, because I'm trying to work on an "emergencial" UI as time permits. I'm not liking the results I getting for now, but it's this or nothing.

However, from the last 10 days, I already had expended all my free time (and some more… :P ), so I can't promise you I can do it on the next week (I'm working this weekend). I`m not sure, even, if I should as we don't have the scheduling for KSP 1.8.1 - I risk having the fix available before (or, worst, when! :D ) I finally deliver the UI hack…

Edited by Lisias
Update on the diagnosis

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The broken UI hasn't stopped me from using tweakscale, but i noticed something strange when I was trying to scale antennas from Bluedog Design Bureau. Their UI doesn't appear to be broken and it works fine. I know it is using a different scaling method but apart from that I know nothing about programming or anything relating to that. I just felt like pointing this out.

Here's a video of the working UI: 

 

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5 hours ago, Lisias said:

Essentially: Yes, and perhaps.

Yes, it's something on KSP 1.8 (not Unity). Assuming I managed to track down the problem correctly, a paid Asset from Unity Store gone EoL and is not available anymore for (legal) downloading, and the lack of that asset (or perhaps it plain stop working on 2019 and nobody noticed) broke everybody that was using UI_ScaleEdit (me and 2 or 3 more), UI_FloatRange (a lot of people, really) and UI_FloatEdit (not that much as Range, but a respectable bunch).

Perhaps, because I'm trying to work on an "emergencial" UI as time permits. I'm not liking the results I getting for now, but it's this or nothing.

However, from the last 10 days, I already had expended all my free time (and some more… :P ), so I can't promise you I can do it on the next week (I'm working this weekend). I`m not sure, even, if I should as we don't have the scheduling for KSP 1.8.1 - I risk having the fix available before (or, worst, when! :D ) I finally deliver the UI hack…

Man dont burn yourself out, maybe take a week to rest. Waiting is not going to hurt anyone and we all know you have a life outside of this.Thank you for the explanation.

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9 hours ago, BryNov said:

The broken UI hasn't stopped me from using tweakscale, but i noticed something strange when I was trying to scale antennas from Bluedog Design Bureau. Their UI doesn't appear to be broken and it works fine. I know it is using a different scaling method but apart from that I know nothing about programming or anything relating to that. I just felt like pointing this out.

Here's a video of the working UI: 

The UI component is remarkably similar to the one TweakScale uses. And this is not the first report I have about a working TweakScale on KSP 1.8 , besides with a slightly different mod set. Can you, please, send me the KSP.log from your working installment? Are you using Steam or other service with automatic updates? If yes, your KSP 1.8 were updated from 1.7.3 by this service?

 

5 hours ago, viperwolf said:

Man dont burn yourself out, maybe take a week to rest. Waiting is not going to hurt anyone and we all know you have a life outside of this.

I'm not (anymore). :)

I'm not the only one with the problem, however. A lot of people expended a considerable amount of effort trying to figure out the problem, initially thinking like me "hummm… ok, where I borked this time?".

And in the mean time, we have to explain the users what's happening. Users can be demanding sometimes, but most of them gets satisfied with an explanation - knowing what's happening gave them confidence that the problem will be solved somehow.

 

5 hours ago, viperwolf said:

Thank you for the explanation.

Welcome! (do you see what I mean?) :)

Edited by Lisias
brute force post merging

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10 hours ago, BryNov said:

The broken UI hasn't stopped me from using tweakscale, but i noticed something strange when I was trying to scale antennas from Bluedog Design Bureau. Their UI doesn't appear to be broken and it works fine. I know it is using a different scaling method but apart from that I know nothing about programming or anything relating to that. I just felt like pointing this out.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have confirmation!!! :)

Thanks, dude! I reproduced this on my rig!! Now I have something to work on! (there're heroes everywhere!!!)

u6XTcKp.png

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1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have confirmation!!! :)

Thanks, dude! I reproduced this on my rig!! Now I have something to work on! (there're heroes everywhere!!!)

u6XTcKp.png

Yeay! Now how to share this finding with other mod authors having issues?

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30 minutes ago, Azic Minar said:

Yeay! Now how to share this finding with other mod authors having issues?

First, I need to nail down the root cause, otherwise I would be giving misleading information. Absolutely most of the Add'Ons (if not all!) involved are Screaming Victims of the problem, so I want to be extremely careful on trimming down the possibilities, and avoid overload yet more the already overloaded fellow Add'On Authors. It's not funny using your time to dig into unrelated problems while leaving your own pups starving.

Spoiler

I'm slightly bitter today, because I realized I let Impossible Innovations and KAX to be sided on the last months, and the fact is that I really like these ones. Lots of opportunities to be explored!

It's not that I regret have doing that - it's just that I wanted to give them some care, and I didn't, and now I need some time to mourn it. :P

And about speaking on the Devil, I plain deleted everything from the TestBed, except BDB, TweakScale and CRP. The Module Manager used is the one that came with BDB, by the way. And I got this:

nbbk9N7.png

Note that the very same control used by TweakScale works under BDB's parts, but not under the ones TweakScale touched itself.

So I nailed down the possibilities to Scale.dll and BDB.dll  - everything else was deleted (including MiniAVC.dll):

macmini51:GameData lisias$ find . -type f -name "*.dll"
./Bluedog_DB/Plugins/BDB.dll
./ModuleManager.4.1.0.dll
./Squad/Plugins/KSPSteamCtrlr.dll
./TweakScale/Plugins/KSPe.Light.TweakScale.dll
./TweakScale/Plugins/Scale.dll
./TweakScale/Plugins/Scale_Redist.dll
macmini51:GameData lisias$

F3jP8kl.png

And remembering that I had compiled TweakScale in both 3.5 and 4.x compilers without any change on the behaviour.

So, it may be something I should had done (or should not) on TweakScale, it may be something BDB is doing (or not doing), or it may be something that is happening when this two DLLs do what they do at the same time (one of that unholy interactions between modules).

Edited by Lisias
grammars. Don't you hate this thing?

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Have you noticed also that BDB does not have "#" button on GUI introduced with KSP 1.7.3 ? I can only guess, but to me it seems that BDB use it's own GUI instead of stock GUI. Perhaps stock GUI can be overrided by some 3rd party GUI that will keep stock functionality, but without bugs that comes with KSP 1.8.

Or it is too much time waste for little gain and it is better jsut to wait for KSP 1.8.1. patch.

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On 10/27/2019 at 1:40 PM, kcs123 said:

Have you noticed also that BDB does not have "#" button on GUI introduced with KSP 1.7.3 ? I can only guess, but to me it seems that BDB use it's own GUI instead of stock GUI. Perhaps stock GUI can be overrided by some 3rd party GUI that will keep stock functionality, but without bugs that comes with KSP 1.8.

He's using TweakScale module, and the Scaling control is the one from TweakScale, as far as I could understand. I'm peeking on its source code right now, looking for every occurrence of KSPField (where we hang a UI_Control in order to change the value from the UI), and BDB doesn't instances a single UI_Control. The few KSPFields that appears on the PAW, uses whatever KSP gives them by default.

It's merely the presence of the BDB.dll on the part that makes it to work, as it would initializes something that is needed somewhere in memory, and then TweakScale would not doing because parts without a BDB module does not shows the UI_Control correctly. [ NO!!! ]

It could be, also, something that TweakScale should not be doing, triggering some problem inside en empty try-catch on KSP guts and aborting whatever it should had done. But that would render the UI_Control problematic with or without the presence of BDB.dll.[ NO!!! ]

 

On 10/27/2019 at 1:40 PM, kcs123 said:

Or it is too much time waste for little gain and it is better jsut to wait for KSP 1.8.1. patch.

Perhaps. But I have a yet more serious problem to cope: the mere presence of a third-party DLL "fixed" the problem for a part. This implies that, somehow, a PartModule is affecting the behaviour of another one indirectly and in a unattended way. This creates problems that are horribly hard to detect and fix. [ NO!!! ]

If someone is willing to double check what I'm doing, I just rebuilt "The World" around here following the advices from this post trying to identify something that I should not be doing.

The new branches are this one for KSPe.Light.TweakScale and this one for the TweakScale dev branch. Everything and the kitchen's sink is compiled for KSP 1.8 and against the recommended DLLs on the post I linked.

The Module Manager I'm using is the latest one, 4.1.0, from the maintainers page. The BDB I'm using is exactly this one, obviously the 1.8 build (and I just checked it again).

— — — POST EDIT — — — 

IT'S NOT THE DLL. I just deleted every DLL from DBD, leaving only the patches, configs and assets. And yet, BlueDog parts have their parts with a good UI, while TweakScale ones does not.

Edited by Lisias
Fascinating….

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Thank you for the recompile, with the new bug fix for procedural parts, I'm inclined to use it, but procedural parts doesn't work without tweakscale, not well at least, thank you for this

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13 minutes ago, The-Doctor said:

Thank you for the recompile, with the new bug fix for procedural parts, I'm inclined to use it, but procedural parts doesn't work without tweakscale, not well at least, thank you for this

Welcome!

But the latest it was not a recompile, just a repacking to prevent it to run on KSP 1.8 without a warning, as there're serious glitches on KSP 1.8, as you can see on the previous post.

Let me know if you find something weird!

Cheers!

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2 hours ago, Lisias said:

He's using TweakScale module, and the Scaling control is the one from TweakScale, as far as I could understand. I'm peeking on its source code right now, looking for every occurrence of KSPField (where we hang a UI_Control in order to change the value from the UI), and BDB doesn't instances a single UI_Control. The few KSPFields that appears on the PAW, uses whatever KSP gives them by default.

It's merely the presence of the BDB.dll on the part that makes it to work, as it would initializes something that is needed somewhere in memory, and then TweakScale would not doing because parts without a BDB module does not shows the UI_Control correctly.

It could be, also, something that TweakScale should not be doing, triggering some problem inside en empty try-catch on KSP guts and aborting whatever it should had done. But that would render the UI_Control problematic with or without the presence of BDB.dll.

 

Perhaps. But I have a yet more serious problem to cope: the mere presence of a third-party DLL "fixed" the problem for a part. This implies that, somehow, a PartModule is affecting the behaviour of another one indirectly and in a unattended way. This creates problems that are horribly hard to detect and fix. 

If someone is willing to double check what I'm doing, I just rebuilt "The World" around here following the advices from this post trying to identify something that I should not be doing.

The new branches are this one for KSPe.Light.TweakScale and this one for the TweakScale dev branch. Everything and the kitchen's sink is compiled for KSP 1.8 and against the recommended DLLs on the post I linked.

The Module Manager I'm using is the latest one, 4.1.0, from the maintainers page. The BDB I'm using is exactly this one, obviously the 1.8 build (and I just checked it again).

— — — POST EDIT — — — 

IT'S NOT THE DLL. I just deleted every DLL from DBD, leaving only the patches, configs and assets. And yet, BlueDog parts have their parts with a good UI, while TweakScale ones does not.

I think you are onto something, yet not the DLL makes me wonder now. I have found a few other mods don't play nice with each other and I've had to go in and remove a simple line from a part to get them working (A line for dust kick up in wheels) among others.

Could one of the patches have the fix in it?

Or, maybe the asset has a new frame for the interface when you right click on the part and that's the fix?

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1 minute ago, Azic Minar said:

I think you are onto something, yet not the DLL makes me wonder now. I have found a few other mods don't play nice with each other and I've had to go in and remove a simple line from a part to get them working (A line for dust kick up in wheels) among others.

Could one of the patches have the fix in it?

Or, maybe the asset has a new frame for the interface when you right click on the part and that's the fix?

Dude, I quit thinking. I'll brute force my way into it. I will go Combinatorial Analysis on the issue, both trying to reproduce a new part with the (fixed) behaviour, as well trying to break one that is behaving.

Damn, that adaptor to shove an SSD on my MacMini didn't arrived yet.

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1 minute ago, Lisias said:

Dude, I quit thinking. I'll brute force my way into it. I will go Combinatorial Analysis on the issue, both trying to reproduce a new part with the (fixed) behaviour, as well trying to break one that is behaving.

Damn, that adaptor to shove an SSD on my MacMini didn't arrived yet.

Good luck! I was merely trying to suggest ideas to help

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Just now, Azic Minar said:

Good luck! I was merely trying to suggest ideas to help

I understood.

Didn't meant to be rude, I'm sorry - I'm currently in "Search and Destroy" (bugs) mode, and my social skills became a bit hampered on that mode! :)

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