Message to Squad to Retire Curseforge

[Kroslev Kerman]

You Know Squad nobody in Curseforge updates there mods and Spacedock is so much better just update the game and not let it link to curseforge because Curse sucks when i found Spacedock my KSP Experience Changed all mods on there were being updated in matter of days(or hours)after the 1.5 update and look at curseforge non of the Mods even updated

[Chel]

Not to judge you or anything, but SQUAD as a company makes decisions that feel right to them. People can still download mods from Curse (in fact I do), so having the site shut down because of one person's opinion on which site is better and then the other site shut down is kinda critical of you

Edited October 26, 2018 by The_Cat_In_Space

[Kroslev Kerman]

yeh but its my Opinion that Curse sucks a bit because no mods ever updated and i had to deal with outdated Mods for a while(until i found spacedock)

[HebaruSan]

SQUAD's endorsement isn't about which site is best or most popular. It's about which one they can be confident will still be operating a week, a month, a year from now. Curseforge is a commercial operation with revenue capable of signing endorsement contracts with SQUAD. SpaceDock, wonderful as it is, is a homebrew solution running on some dude's private server. If VITAS gets tired of running it, SD could vanish in minutes (as its predecessor did).

[GrandpaMark]

You could try CKAN and AVC for getting up to date mods. Some swear by these others avoid them. I have used for a few years now and continue to do so. 

As for finding new mods you can check the forums here to locate mods which you might like. 

It all boils down to personal preference. What ever works for you. Hope this helps you enjoy your KSP experience. 

[Gargamel]

How much money is SpaceDock or any other hosting site willing to pay SQUAD?     Because that's how Curse became the official mod site for KSP.   They paid SQUAD to drive traffic to their site, and SQUAD got a stable, official, site to help promote their product.    Curse hosts many other games' mods other than KSP, so there is a bit of cross traffic going on.   SpaceDock, the current favorite KSP mod site, pretty much only has KSP mods hosted.  I know there were plans to host more, but those have pretty much fallen through.    There is no financial incentive for SQUAD to dump Curse in favor of a better site. 

 

 

[LorenLuke]

On 10/25/2018 at 9:01 PM, Kroslev Kerman said:

yeh but its my Opinion that Curse sucks

Therefore a successful, established company should upend one of the practices that got them to this point in time.

Think what you're asking, here.

[klgraham1013]

I wonder how much money Take Two even makes from Curse.  I mean, does anyone here actually go to it for mods?  I suppose the casuals do because that's where the main menu sends them.  Better question, are there casual KSP players anymore?

[Gargamel]

1 hour ago, klgraham1013 said:

I wonder how much money Take Two even makes from Curse. 

I was under the impression that the bulk of the transaction happened up front. 

[klgraham1013]

3 hours ago, Gargamel said:

I was under the impression that the bulk of the transaction happened up front. 

Interesting.

[Lisias]

On 10/26/2018 at 3:56 PM, Gargamel said:

There is no financial incentive for SQUAD to dump Curse in favor of a better site. 

And we need to define what's "better'. And to whom.

The SpaceDock's API is excellent, but Curse allows me to fine trim exactly what versions of KSP my mod runs, while SpaceDock only allow me to define one.

Right now, there're mods that runs on 1.4.1 to 1.4.4, but not on 1.4.5.  And there're others that runs fine on 1.4.5 and on 1.5.1.

CurseForge allows me to set this, SpaceDock doesn't.

[Gargamel]

To be fair, I can't quote any sources, nor would I be able to find the thread in which I read this.   I just remember it as it was given as the explanation for adopting curse.  It made enough sense that I haven't questioned it.  

[Lisias]

On 10/26/2018 at 2:01 AM, Kroslev Kerman said:

yeh but its my Opinion that Curse sucks a bit because no mods ever updated and i had to deal with outdated Mods for a while(until i found spacedock)

On the first page of Curse Forge

https://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods

I can see a lot of mods updated in the last hour, in the last few days, and in the last few months.

I'm aware that some maintainers are ignoring CurseForge, but not all of them.

There's an additional advantage by TTI/Squad sticking on CurseForge. Their content is curated.

Every submission of mine need to be reviewed before being published, what prevents KSP having his name associated to undesired content.

On SpaceDock, everything goes right to the front page. I think it's unlikely that someone here would do such a stunt as to publish something that would hurt KSP's image, but companies like impossible more than unlikely.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Lisias
formatting added

[Gargamel]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Their content is curated.

That's a very fair point.   And While spacedock isn't curated, per se, the forums do have a requirement that source code be listed, and the modders of the community seem to be very good at policing the works posted here.    And yes, the forums are not spacedock, and vice versa.   But usually when something wonky gets posted to spacedock, the alarm gets raised fairly quickly. 

[Lisias]

8 hours ago, Gargamel said:

And yes, the forums are not spacedock, and vice versa.   But usually when something wonky gets posted to spacedock, the alarm gets raised fairly quickly. 

But what would be the practical effects of this? There're no requirement on the SpaceDock to have a login here, so a hypothetical stunt-man  don't have to fear such consequences here from their stunts.

SpaceDock has their own, minimalistic EULA, where they make clear that they can remove content at their own discretion. So, the moderators can pesky them to get the content removed by violating forum rules. But should they comply? You, as a content creator, would rely on a site willing to remove your work due rules from a site you are not associated?

This sounds like a bad business model for me.

CurseForge business model, on the other hand, is to provide curated content using very clear rules approved by their stakeholders (content creators between them). It's a predictable environment, something companies like a lot.

And, as a bonus, CurseForge acts preemptively to enforce that very clear set of rules - something that on SpaceDock would be done only after such hypothetical damage* had already been done.

* As "damage" understand anything that TTI/Squad consider hurting to KSP image, what's not necessarily the same as you or me consider as such. We, adults, can laugh and like things that are unappropriated for kids, and since Squad do market KSP to kids too, they can consider "damage" something that we would approve in good faith.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Lisias
small grammars mistakes fixed

[Lisias]

Ugh. I just realized something. 

SpaceDock "headquarters" is on Germany, what makes them directly subjected to the GDPR, and so, also their clients. That thing about Data Processors and Data Controllers would demand that every client of them would need to hire a GDPR Contact on the EU to handle European data requests.

When you have direct revenue involved, you can repass the costs to your customers. But with indirect [unsubstantial] revenues?

Edited October 28, 2018 by Lisias
fix a grammar error, and added a comment in [])

[Gargamel]

15 hours ago, Lisias said:

This sounds like a bad business model for me.

Well, considering, AFAIK, that Spacedock isn't a business, but just a couple guys who run a website for the community, I think it's pretty good.   There's no revenue stream, I believe they rely on donations to stay afloat. 

[Lisias]

32 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

Well, considering, AFAIK, that Spacedock isn't a business, but just a couple guys who run a website for the community, I think it's pretty good.   There's no revenue stream, I believe they rely on donations to stay afloat. 

Hummm….

That's explains a lot. On the other hand, makes me confused about the reason some people thinks that, so, Squad should ditch CurseForge in favor of SpaceDock!

There's no way a company would trust its name, reputation and incoming on a donation based site run by a "couple guys". 

 

[Gargamel]

6 minutes ago, Lisias said:

On the other hand, makes me confused about the reason some people thinks that, so, Squad should ditch CurseForge in favor of SpaceDock!

The interface for  users is far better, you don't get hit with ads, and the download process is far simpler.   I just love having sites with multiple download buttons, and it's russian roulette as to which ones are spam and which are the files.  

7 minutes ago, Lisias said:

There's no way a company would trust its name, reputation and incoming on a donation based site run by a "couple guys". 

Sounds like how some of the major sites out there today got started 20 years ago....

[Kernel Kraken]

I mean, I love spacedock, it's what I used, but I still love curse for sentimental reasons. I got my first mods (for Minecraft) from curse, and I used it for most of my KSP modding for the past year or so. But yeah, spacedock is 100x better.

[Lisias]

Just now, Gargamel said:

The interface for  users is far better, you don't get hit with ads, and the download process is far simpler.   I just love having sites with multiple download buttons, and it's russian roulette as to which ones are spam and which are the files.  

Had you ever asked why such sites have so many ads, and "some" of them so many "buttons"? Business plan. These guys have bills to pay.

 

Just now, Gargamel said:

Sounds like how some of the major sites out there today got started 20 years ago....

The 90's are over.    New kids nowadays have to compete with that guys, and they have 20 years of advantage over them.

Life is tough.  

Just now, Kernel Kraken said:

I mean, I love spacedock, it's what I used, but I still love curse for sentimental reasons. I got my first mods (for Minecraft) from curse, and I used it for most of my KSP modding for the past year or so. But yeah, spacedock is 100x better.

I agree. SpaceDock is much better. But CurseForge is good enough, and good enough is enough for a business plan.

And another thing that it's good for business plans is long term support.

Unfortunately, the lack of a viable long term business plan talks louder than the technical excellence.

[Gargamel]

4 minutes ago, Lisias said:

And another thing that it's good for business plans is long term support. 

Unfortunately, the lack of a viable long term business plan talks louder than the technical excellence.

Well, that's pretty much a strike against Curse then. 

When the partnership was announced, there were a few promises made, one of which was a KSP specific mod client designed to run off the curse website.   That, and a couple other promises I don't recall the details of, were never fulfilled.  So if you want't to claim long term support, you might want to leave Curse out of the equation.   

It's a for profit site.  As long as the ads get views, they don't give one lick about the player base.    The obviously have no interest in making using the Curse site a 'enjoyable' experience, as long as the traffic keeps coming, the crap will keep flowing.   It might be good enough for them, and SQUAD just doesn't really have the incentive to make a change. 

The other sites we use are designed to give the users a better experience.   One of the huge selling points of KSP is the mods, and while having an official mod site (another reason we don't see the Steam Workshop in play yet) is good for that, most users know of the better, unofficial sites. 

I'm pretty sure, to a person, that nobody wold complain one Iota if SpaceDock through up a banner ad on their site, just to generate enough revenue to cover their costs. 

[Lisias]

On 10/28/2018 at 7:35 PM, Gargamel said:

When the partnership was announced, there were a few promises made, one of which was a KSP specific mod client designed to run off the curse website.   That, and a couple other promises I don't recall the details of, were never fulfilled.  So if you want't to claim long term support, you might want to leave Curse out of the equation.

Well, that's a reason to look for alternatives.

 

On 10/28/2018 at 7:35 PM, Gargamel said:

It's a for profit site.  As long as the ads get views, they don't give one lick about the player base.    The obviously have no interest in making using the Curse site a 'enjoyable' experience, as long as the traffic keeps coming, the crap will keep flowing.   It might be good enough for them, and SQUAD just doesn't really have the incentive to make a change. 

One thing that people should understand: it's all about the money. It's always about the money, Everybody have bills to pay and mouths to feed.

Any other considerations are secondary. You want do make a deal with a business? You need to have a business. It's simple like that, I'm sorry being the one telling you this.

 

On 10/28/2018 at 7:35 PM, Gargamel said:

The other sites we use are designed to give the users a better experience.   One of the huge selling points of KSP is the mods, and while having an official mod site (another reason we don't see the Steam Workshop in play yet) is good for that, most users know of the better, unofficial sites. 

And some of them gone Kerbal Stuff. CurseForge is still there. Do  you see a pattern here?

 

On 10/28/2018 at 7:35 PM, Gargamel said:

I'm pretty sure, to a person, that nobody wold complain one Iota if SpaceDock through up a banner ad on their site, just to generate enough revenue to cover their costs. 

One thing that people need to understand. If you don't pay for the product, you are the product.

The only single reason a commercial site serves you "for free" it's because someone else is paying them for such. And who're paying are the clients. [not who are using]

The sore purpose of any business is to serve their clients, not their users. And users are not clients - unless they are paying, of course.

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Lisias
tyops, as usulla.

[linuxgurugamer]

2 hours ago, Gargamel said:

Well, considering, AFAIK, that Spacedock isn't a business, but just a couple guys who run a website for the community, I think it's pretty good.   There's no revenue stream, I believe they rely on donations to stay afloat. 

They do, and I’m one of the donaters

[Kerbart]

Spacedock is wonderful and should by all means continue. Things are slightly different for Squad though when choosing an "official" mod site. Aside from guarantees like uptime, consider what would happen if Squad decides to make Spacedock the "official" site:

• Traffic to Spacedock is likely to increase significantly. Remember, this would be the mod-site the Kerbal Space Program website links to, and most KSP players who are not active on the forum (a large chunk, if not the vast majority) would now go there to get their mods.
• While bandwidth costs and server expansion costs are driven through the roof, donations are unlikely to go up significantly. Surely not from the new non-forum audience, who are likely to think "why would I PAY for the site Squad provides? I already paid for the game?"
• If the unbalance between revenue and cost becomes unbearable, the new mod host will have two options; (1) shut down or (2) ask Squad for a donation to keep them afloat. And once the latter happens, why would the player base make donations, if Squad is there to bail them out?

Consider the relation with Curse where more users drives up revenue and the whole things supports itself. With that and the above in mind, why on earth would Squad switch over to SpaceDock?

It's great to have SpaceDock. It can provide a better and more KSP-oriented service. It keeps Curse sharp (one hopes). It's community driven. It would be foolish to suggest SpaceDock should not exist. Contrary, SpaceDock should exist. At the same time it makes no sense for Squad to designate them, in their current form, as the official Mod Site.