[1.8-1.12] Ferram Aerospace Research Continued: v0.16.0.5 "Mader" 03/04/22

[stk2008]

Any one got any idea of the issue I posted (just curius TBH as its an odd one).

Either way shall just stay in external mode for now

[Grimmas]

Not sure, the link to the log you posted is not publicly accessible. 

[stk2008]

DOH let me fix that now sorry.
 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dkohOiLfvXLogb6rK2HfQ--Ajy8uzS8N/view?usp=sharing

 

thanks in advance

[Grimmas]

I took a look but nothing stands out to me immediately, unfortunately. Maybe someone else will see something. 

But asteroids are another type of vessel in KSP so it would make sense that FAR tries to attach itself to them . Players do tend to drag asteroids into Kerbin's atmosphere occasionally :-)

[stk2008]

Oh I see I was wondering why FAR was messing with them makes sense..it just dont make sense why its only in cockpit view that the FPS suffers.
thanks any way for looking appriciate it

 

[Alioth81]

I created a small pull request on github that adds an option for dynamic control surface deflection. 

I always faced the challenge that crafts that are agile at low speed become super reactive at high speeds (by a user with keyboard but also by sophisticated PID autopilots) and would quickly disintegrate in flight at the slightest control input.

Therefore I created a new option (disabled by default) that allows the user to select a speed after which control input decreases with a selectable exponent until it reaches a definable minimum.

Example: if I choose start speed 200 m/s and an exponent of 2 the deflection at 400 m/s will only be one quarter from the one at 200 (e.g. 4 instead of 12).

In addition I added compensation for density of the atmosphere this acts against the reduction so that there is more deflection in the thin parts of the atmosphere (again this only counters up to the limit of the original "requested deflection")

There is also a minimum value that can be set to ensure a minimal amount of deflection even at high speed.

I created a small video showing this change in action and a graph showing the approximate reduction in control input.

The video shows that the planes keep low speed maneuverability while reducing the control input at higher speed. One example is a high speed plane the other a WW2 style fighter.

First the regular case and then at 1:30 the same flight profile with dynamic deflection control surfaces enabled

 

The graph show the expected control input reduction (at sea level) for different exponents in relation to start speed X

Edited April 25, 2021 by Alioth81

[Grimmas]

6 hours ago, mszegedy said:

Grimmas, since you have a fork of it, do you wanna just patch it yourself and submit it as a pull request? I'm an outsider here and I can't tell what your level of involvement is on the project (for all I know, you're the primary maintainer), but that's what I'd do in your position if I were a random user who actually understood the codebase.

My level of involvement in this project is zero.  I actually want to use FAR but had to uninstall it recently due to some really janky behavior. 

While I can do a PR, I can't in good conscience patch it without reproducing the issue first and making sure the fix works. And I haven't been able to reproduce it so far. I've tried with FAR+SSPX as that is the mod whose parts show up in your log but no dice. So it's likely that yet another mod is causing this incompatibility issue with FAR by patching the SSPX parts, but it's not clear to me which mod is responsible. 

Also the stuff I wrote above is just the obvious issue, there is a less obvious issue somewhere else that is causing the NaNs and is unrelated to the naked dictionary lookup (probably). 

[mszegedy]

Oh, that's unfortunate. If I had the energy and patience, I'd look for a minimal example, but I don't. I guess it'll have to remain a mystery for the time being.

[Compu]

On 4/4/2021 at 4:39 AM, Compu said:

could it have anything to do with the procedural wings mod? that's the mod that installed farc as a dependency

i dunno what changed but i don't seem to be having this problem anymore

[dkavolis]

Ferram Aerospace Research v0.16.0.2 "Mader"

Updated KSP version 1.11
Update to MFI 1.2.10

Added Dynamic Deflection for Control Surfaces Option #110, @Alioth81
Fixed Mk1pod.v2 voxelization by switching to mesh voxelization, colliders were missing top and bottom planes resulting in shell-only voxelization
Rotor blades are no longer voxelized
Reduced submerged lift and drag, multipliers are controlled by FARConfig/Settings/submerged[Drag|Lift]Multiplier with default value of 0.25
Renamed FARWind to FARAtmosphere and added overrides for gas properties

[dkavolis]

On 4/25/2021 at 8:08 PM, mszegedy said:

Yeah, it turns out I didn't fix it after all. The good news is that I have narrowed down the steps to reproduce:

1. Enter the VAB.
2. Load a vessel, or create a root part. (This step is unnecessary if the editor has already automatically loaded a vessel.)
3. Pick up a part from the parts pane.
4. Drop it somewhere other than on your vessel (so that it turns red and translucent).

FAR will say in the log that the part has a mesh size of 0, and start spitting out these errors.

@dkavolis, sorry for the ping, but I believe me and Grimmas have put together a complete bug report here. I think you have all the resources necessary now to fix the problem. Grimmas, since you have a fork of it, do you wanna just patch it yourself and submit it as a pull request? I'm an outsider here and I can't tell what your level of involvement is on the project (for all I know, you're the primary maintainer), but that's what I'd do in your position if I were a random user who actually understood the codebase.

Should be fixed in 63a9c11

[mazer924]

How do I make my plane stop turning right? I have checked it few times, basically everything is symmetrical, it even has engines on both sides but every time I try to take off, it turns right and flips.

edit: It flew it few more times, and once I reach about 50 m/s it pitches about a bit and automatically flips. I don't really understand what's happening and why.

https://imgur.com/a/LZdqg4r

Edited May 9, 2021 by mazer924

[Beetlecat]

20 hours ago, dkavolis said:

Ferram Aerospace Research v0.16.0.2 "Mader"

Updated KSP version 1.11
Update to MFI 1.2.10

Added Dynamic Deflection for Control Surfaces Option #110, @Alioth81
Fixed Mk1pod.v2 voxelization by switching to mesh voxelization, colliders were missing top and bottom planes resulting in shell-only voxelization
Rotor blades are no longer voxelized
Reduced submerged lift and drag, multipliers are controlled by FARConfig/Settings/submerged[Drag|Lift]Multiplier with default value of 0.25
Renamed FARWind to FARAtmosphere and added overrides for gas properties

Awesome! Thank you! 

@dkavolis

----Having some trouble with my install again -- but starting "from scratch" shows no issues at all (yet) -- but I'll reply again if I figure out what the conflict is.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Beetlecat

[stk2008]

Thanks for update.

Just to say this is still an issue

not sure if you remember me last post but in cockpit view as soon as generating data for (any Ast) FPS drops the below 30 and even lower after more messages like that.

I can regain FPS by just going into external view or map view then its all fine again in cockpit view till that message shows again.

This never happens if I just stay in external view.

 

I also have another issue in the editor some times FAR seems to just be disabled (cant enable voxel overlay nor run sweep ETC its all grayed out).

I have to keep choosing a different root part then click cockpit and move it then replace it before the buttons and FAR seems to work again.

I am still looking into a way to reproduce this error though so will report back with logs once I can.

 

Thanks

[dlrk]

Thanks for the update! The new version unfortunately breaks Trajectories (the previous version appears to work fine 1.11.2), causing it to no longer account for atmospheric drag.

EDIT: I see it has been fixed on Github

Edited May 10, 2021 by dlrk

[David26]

15 hours ago, mazer924 said:

How do I make my plane stop turning right? I have checked it few times, basically everything is symmetrical, it even has engines on both sides but every time I try to take off, it turns right and flips.

edit: It flew it few more times, and once I reach about 50 m/s it pitches about a bit and automatically flips. I don't really understand what's happening and why.

https://imgur.com/a/LZdqg4r

@mazer924

Move the engines back. Having them close  to the CoM seems to make the craft unstable.

[stk2008]

Hmmm is there a way to tweak what FAR does with water because as it is on latest version using KSP 1.10.1 if a wing even goes near water it instantly freeses movement and the whole craft stops

 

So as you can see this dont work becuase even if the winglet at the back is not actually touching the water it still acts like it is and instantly freezes the craft EG red arrow

 

but if I raise the craft up high like this

I can just about get it up in the air JUST as long as a wing stays well away from the water

Any chance there is a MM patch to say HALF drag when a wing is in water ETC? no idea if that would work though no idea about this kind of stuff I just play

Edited May 10, 2021 by stk2008

[dlrk]

Still issues with Trajectories (as posted to Github). Drag is underestimated massively. Let me know if this something best brought to TJ's mainainer.

EDIT: Fixed on github

Edited May 11, 2021 by dlrk

[stk2008]

OK I am pretty sure its not possible but please please is there a way to disable FAR messing with water? maybe a MM patch?

 

EDIT
 

Just see this in the CFG file wonder if adjusting them will help to make submerines easier when using FAR

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by stk2008

[stk2008]

NM did not help.

The problem I have is under water the fins dont actually work as in they seem like they do not deflect water there for dont allow any control.

If I look at the aero data by pressing F12 I dont really see any arrows like I do with out FAr EG this is a sub without FAR installed

I understand FAR is not made for subs but if you could maybe suggest a way to even for now revert what FAR does to water so I can keep FAR installed for planes because I love FAR its awesome and I cant play with out it but I now want to also dabble with subs and under water stuff but I cant.

 

Please dont take this as arant over this awesome mod nor am I demanding any thing I am just kindly asking for some help please.

 

Thanks in advance

[Razgriz1]

What would be the proper way to apply two separate control surfaces that need to move independently to one part? In particular I'm looking at a shuttle-style split rudder. Is it correct to add two separate modules referencing the two transform names? How does one deal with the two different control surfaces vs the one static surface?

[Guest]

forgive me darkening the door of the great and powerful FAR.....

current update, in my ksp 1.10 RO/RS/RP1 install shoulds "oddity"

ZU forward vol seems to report "wrong value" in that a "+" is shown, not a "-"...atleast from flight testing this seems wrong, as the craft flys like before, but with slightly less rotor/prop drag (I think)

I was using a craft over the period of pre/post update. After update, ceiling, climb rate and top speed al say rough 12.5% increases....most noticeable on max ceiling reachable in flight tests and predicted (and factual) "max range remaining"

.... its neat, as this update seems to treat craft "nicer" but the reporting is either off or very different (and I didnt notice)

[Guest]

This craft can easily exceed 12K km range and has an over 11km ceiling

old

same craft ("painted") but newer far update...flys abit better, but report is just "wrong" now

 

Althought report seems "worse"... its behaviors in flight (speed, climb ceiling) are in fact "a bit better"

 

But the readout is totally borked now...only flight tests show "truth"

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Guest

[Alioth81]

I try to patch airplane plus parts for FAR but when setting the values for the MAC (Mean Aerodynamic Cord) I found some discrepancies between the FAR/Blender tutorial and the formula that is used to calculate MAC on trapezoidal wings on some RC-plane sites.

• According to the tutorial you add root and tip chord and divide by two (a simple average)
• According the majority of information I found the formula should be rc x 2/3 x (( 1 + t + t² ) ÷ ( 1 + t )) where rc is the root chord length and t the taper ratio (root chord divided by tip chord)

In my opinion the second formula looks correct. However the stock part patch of FAR and b9 procedural wings seem to be implemented according to the formula in the tutorial.

Does anyone know what is correct and should actually be used?

[Crimor]

So I haven't touched this mod in yeaaars(basically not since the stock ksp aero rework, whenever that was), is there a good comparison video, and does it have a noticable impact compared to stock aero nowadays?