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What's required to shield parts?


4x4cheesecake
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Hey there :)

While preparing my next entry for the Shuttle Challenge, I ran into a problem while aerobreaking in Eves atmosphere. Well, obviously the dense atmoshphere is a problem on it's own but my Shuttle would survive the aerobreak theoretically. The wings and MK3 parts are pretty heat resistant but two tanks, which are placed above the wings, will heat up as well, even though they should be shielded by the wings:

6NPWMOK.png

These are two Rockomax X200 fuel tanks. They are clipped inside the MK3 fueltanks and the wing:

fTTYmLm.png

For testing purposes, I alreaded moved the tanks upwards so they are no longer clipped into the wing but still, they are not shielded.

The wing parts below the tank are the parent part for the whole wing, which is connected to the MK3 fuselage, and a single wing element connected to this parent:

EL2cnwF.png

Pts8WFx.png

I also tried to place an additional wing element direct below the tanks, which is actually connected to the fuselage below the X200 tanks (the big wing is placed in the middle of the fuselage and moved downwards) but the tanks are still not shielded.

One more pic of the shuttle in general:
kWDDsEO.png

If anyone want to take a look at it ingame, here the craft file (stock parts only, KSP 1.4.5): https://www.dropbox.com/s/q8c20v61vm36wpt/EVE STS - 1.craft?dl=0

So, how can I shield these tanks? is it actually possible to shield parts without using a fairing, a cargo bay or a heat shield? The only solution so far seems to put a 10m heatshield on top of the MK3 cockpit and fly through the atmosphere while pointing the shuttle prograde but that's not the way I want to do it^^

 

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Just now, Foxster said:

You mean the parts on top over-heating? 

Nothing to do with where the part was originally placed if that was lower down? I know that shouldn't matter but <shrugs>

Yes, that's what I mean.

I've already tried to place the tanks on top of the body and move them to the correct position but still, they are overheating.

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1 minute ago, Foxster said:

Frustrating I know not to understand why but I think I'd probably just get rid of them and add the capacity to one of the other stacks.  

Yep, that's the part I want to get around :D

1 minute ago, Foxster said:

I'll have a play with your craft in a bit... 

Go for it...If you actually want to use it as a shuttle, I can share the launch vehicle as well ;)

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Nope, can't see why it's doing it. Might be that they are near the joint between the wings and the hull or because its Thursday. 

I think I'd be tempted to simplify the craft by reducing the number of wing parts and other bolt-ons but then it's a long time since I did anything in this challenge so what do I know? 

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45 minutes ago, Foxster said:

Nope, can't see why it's doing it. Might be that they are near the joint between the wings and the hull or because its Thursday. 

I think I'd be tempted to simplify the craft by reducing the number of wing parts and other bolt-ons but then it's a long time since I did anything in this challenge so what do I know? 

Thanks for taking a look at it anyway :)

I'm still doing some experiments and I get the feeling that it is important how the wing got constructed, because a single wing element can actually protect other parts behind it:

vwDyc31.png

This is a single wing connector typ A and a FL-T200 fuel tank + a bunch of reaction wheels behind it. Works perfectly fine, I'll do some tests with multiple wing elements now :)

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I've been finding that wings in the same line, even if they're not connected seem to occlude those behind them. I don't have any conclusive screenshots yet, but it's a behavior I've noticed. I'll try to verify this later.

I've been experimenting with the "wings as radiators" trick, mostly by attaching E-wings to Small Nose Cones and NCS Adapters, offsetting them way back, and doing Jool dives while holding surface prograde.

One of the more interesting things I've noticed comes from the AeroGUI window. The External Temp and the drag don't really affect the thermal survivability of a part. The most important factor appears to be the Static Ambient Temp. (Note that the E-wings near the tail are glowing because they're taking heat off the nose cones.) This mission survived and made it back out to a safe orbit.

a74OEug.png

Static Ambient Temp graph for Jool, per KSP wiki. Graphs available for all other atmo planets, provided by OhioBob. They're worth looking at.

Out of dozens of dives with various craft, trying to survive a pass at 180km was WAY harder than just crash-diving to 130km, even though 180km is almost vacuum.

Jool_Atmosphere_T&P.png

EDIT: I guess the point I'm trying to make is that understanding thermal occlusion is important, but you can DEFINITELY get away with just properly "radiating" a part by choosing what it's attached to. If that "radiator" part is oriented surface prograde, you're in GOOD shape.

Edited by FleshJeb
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