Splashed down in Tundra..

[MoridinUK]

Hi all,

I'm in an early career, just got orbital, I'm trying to bring a pod down in tundra, but splashed down for a science mission, I've no idea how to pull this off, if I land in water the biome is water!! Also it's very very hard, even with trajectories mod to get anywhere near where I need to be! 

Am I just crazy for trying to use rockets when I should be flying? (I've yet to manage to build a jet that works!)

[Rocket In My Pocket]

Well;

A. Let's start with why? That's a pretty obscure biome, do you have some kind of contract for it?

B. Yes, it'd be a lot easier with a plane, or a plane attached to a rocket, or a rover attached to a rocket, or a rover attached to a plane, etc...

C. You can bring up the debug menu with Alt+F12, from there you can enable a colored view of the biomes, may help you.

[Gargamel]

15 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

B. Yes, it'd be a lot easier with a plane, or a plane attached to a rocket, or a rover attached to a rocket, or a rover attached to a plane, etc...

Don't forget a rocket attached to the rover!   That way you can zoom home!

[bewing]

The shores, grasslands, badlands, deserts, tundra, ice sheets, ice caps, highlands, and mountains biomes on land are largish. The water biome in the water is huge. You can reasonably expect to hit those with a rocket, I suppose.

The "splashed at" biomes for shores, grasslands, badlands, deserts, tundra, ice sheets, ice caps, highlands, and mountains (and landed at water) are tiny, and are semi-randomly intermixed with other biomes. It's even difficult to precisely locate them if you are traveling 5 m/s along the surface. I tend to plant flags so that I can even find them a second time. So yes, you'd have to be completely nuts to try to hit any of those from orbit.

Yes, you need to fly a plane there, and then carefully taxi around to get what you want, if you want to go biome hunting. I personally enjoy biome hunting, so I do that sort of thing a lot.

 

Edited November 24, 2018 by bewing

[Gargamel]

2 minutes ago, bewing said:

So yes, you'd have to be completely nuts to try to hit any of those from orbit.

Which pretty much describes our player base......

[Pecan]

11 hours ago, Gargamel said:

Which pretty much describes our player base......

You rang sir?

[MoridinUK]

A) Yes it's a contract.

I'm very early on, and didn't realize how hard slashed down would be, I'll probably have to take a hit to rep.  Buy Earlier in the game I mean I have the first three Techs and General Rocketry open only!  I have a bunch of science ready but I'm trying to work out if I can get to satellites and comms (I need to build a com network etc and not done it before... way too early for a rover...

B) I've played on and off since early access, I mean I think I bought the game on version .40 or was it 0.36 I have NEVER managed to build a plane that works, even following guides...  (maybe I'm rubbish at flying!)

C) I didn't know that.. )

Thanks for the replies! 

[Xd the great]

There are a gazillion tutorials and craft on plane building. I suggest an attempt on downloading others craft and learning.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

1 hour ago, MoridinUK said:

A) Yes it's a contract.

I'm very early on, and didn't realize how hard slashed down would be, I'll probably have to take a hit to rep.  Buy Earlier in the game I mean I have the first three Techs and General Rocketry open only!  I have a bunch of science ready but I'm trying to work out if I can get to satellites and comms (I need to build a com network etc and not done it before... way too early for a rover...

B) I've played on and off since early access, I mean I think I bought the game on version .40 or was it 0.36 I have NEVER managed to build a plane that works, even following guides...  (maybe I'm rubbish at flying!)

C) I didn't know that.. )

Thanks for the replies! 

No worries, Rep is easy to come by and not that important in the first place. Rovers can be manned btw, so if you send a Kerbal to drive it, it won't need signal, or a comms network.

Did you have any questions about planes? I'll start you of with some very general tips:

Center of lift should be just behind Center of mass. You'll want control surfaces for each axis. Roll is typically on the wing tips, pitch and yaw on the tail. Your rear landing gear should be just behind the center of mass so you can rotate to lift off. Don't bring too much fuel, that's a common mistake.

 

[MoridinUK]

 

22 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

There are a gazillion tutorials and craft on plane building. I suggest an attempt on downloading others craft and learning.

I know...  I've just always failed and get quite frustrated as so many others can do it, I couldn't even make it work back in .90 before the atomsphere was anything but soup...

4 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

No worries, Rep is easy to come by and not that important in the first place. Rovers can be manned btw, so if you send a Kerbal to drive it, it won't need signal, or a comms network.

Did you have any questions about planes? I'll start you of with some very general tips:

Center of lift should be just behind Center of mass. You'll want control surfaces for each axis. Roll is typically on the wing tips, pitch and yaw on the tail. Your rear landing gear should be just behind the center of mass so you can rotate to lift off. Don't bring too much fuel, that's a common mistake.

 

I kind understand the principals, but I've never had any luck so I don't tend to pick up the parts until I need to unlock something I want later... I could open the basic plane parts but that seems like a lot when I doubt I'll pull of a single mission with it... 

I've even tried putting a booster on the back and launching like a rocket to stop them blowing up on the runway to no avail!

 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

57 minutes ago, MoridinUK said:

I kind understand the principals, but I've never had any luck so I don't tend to pick up the parts until I need to unlock something I want later... I could open the basic plane parts but that seems like a lot when I doubt I'll pull of a single mission with it... 

I've even tried putting a booster on the back and launching like a rocket to stop them blowing up on the runway to no avail!

Building planes in KSP is really simple, don't be intimidated. If your COL is behind your COM and you have thrust, you're going to fly, if you have control surfaces, you can maneuver once in flight. Simple as that for the most part.

Check out this challenge thread full of asymmetrical planes, and you'll see that nothing else matters except COM/COL:

Here's some pics of a very simple plane, try making one as close to it as you can, in aviation they have a saying "if it looks right, it is right!" I'll go over some of the important bits. (I have COL just behind the COM but it can be further back then that, I generally like to keep it "within" the COM ball personally if I can. The most important thing is that it never goes in front of the COM, even when the plane is empty of fuel!)

See the Elevons on the wing tips? Those are your Ailerons, those are gonna control Roll. (You'll want to right click each control surface in the SPH and limit it to one axis) The horizontal ones on the tail are your Elevators for Pitch, and the vertical one, the Rudder; is for Yaw. Check the spoiler for more details:

Spoiler

Notice that the nose wheel is lower than the rear gear, this is so that you sit "nose up" on the runway, and the plane will take off without even having to touch anything (besides throttle of course.) The rear wheel is behind the COM as well, as you can see. If it's too far back you'll have trouble nosing up for take off if you need to. The two structural tubes that make up the body can be replaced with empty fuel tanks if you don't have the tubes.

Using a plane will definitely be the way to go if you are hunting small biomes like that. They are useful for lot's of mission types and just having fun as well!

Edited November 25, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket

[swjr-swis]

16 hours ago, MoridinUK said:

I'm trying to bring a pod down in tundra, but splashed down for a science mission, I've no idea how to pull this off, if I land in water the biome is water!!

Look for lakes or rivers enclosed by land with the tundra biome. You'll find the 'splashed down in tundra' in the water, close to the shore. It doesn't exist everywhere, but that's the only places you'll find it.

[MoridinUK]

4 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Building planes in KSP is really simple, don't be intimidated. If your COL is behind your COM and you have thrust, you're going to fly, if you have control surfaces, you can maneuver once in flight. Simple as that for the most part.

 

2

So erm trying to build this, I can't get the nose cone on the back it wont snap on to anything... the rudder looks like a different part from the tail fins?? also where to put instrumentation? 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

8 minutes ago, MoridinUK said:

So erm trying to build this, I can't get the nose cone on the back it wont snap on to anything... the rudder looks like a different part from the tail fins?? also where to put instrumentation? 

Rotate it so the big part is facing the back, holding Alt will help force the node snap.

It is, but that's not important, you can use the same one as the tail fins if that's all you have. I just like that one because it has low authority so the Yaw is nice and gentle.

Instrumentation? You mean science experiments? You can just slap them on the outside if they are small. Or add a service bay somewhere along the main body and stick them in there.

[MoridinUK]

52 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Rotate it so the big part is facing the back, holding Alt will help force the node snap.

It is, but that's not important, you can use the same one as the tail fins if that's all you have. I just like that one because it has low authority so the Yaw is nice and gentle.

Instrumentation? You mean science experiments? You can just slap them on the outside if they are small. Or add a service bay somewhere along the main body and stick them in there.

Thanks i'm flying!!! No idea how to get to see Jeb though like in your screen grab!  Also this doesn't go fast does it?? I'm not sure I have the fuel to reach the tundra and I may have trouble landing, i forgot to slap on some emergency chutes!!! 

But I'm in the air and able to steer... it wouldn't take off on it's own so I guess I need to make it point upwards a bit more! 

Right, so 'splashed down in tundra' and 'splashed down in badlands' just need to figure out where they are and if I can get there! 

I took the fuel out of the big tanks, i'm guessing putting some in makes it too heavy to fly?  I also guess the usual TWR stuff doesn't count (I have a twr of 0.30 something and am flying along happily, cruising just over 10k alt to lower air resistance and extend my flight time! 

Thank  you!

My CoM and CoL look different and the balls smaller... 

Edited November 25, 2018 by MoridinUK

[Rocket In My Pocket]

6 minutes ago, MoridinUK said:

Thanks i'm flying!!! No idea how to get to see Jeb though like in your screen grab!  Also this doesn't go fast does it?? I'm not sure I have the fuel to reach the tundra and I may have trouble landing, i forgot to slap on some emergency chutes!!! 

But I'm in the air and able to steer... it wouldn't take off on it's own so I guess I need to make it point upwards a bit more! 

Right, so 'splashed down in tundra' and 'splashed down in badlands' just need to figure out where they are and if I can get there! 

I took the fuel out of the big tanks, i'm guessing putting some in makes it too heavy to fly?  I also guess the usual TWR stuff doesn't count (I have a twr of 0.30 something and am flying along happily, cruising just over 10k alt to lower air resistance and extend my flight time! 

Thank  you!

My CoM and CoL look different and the balls smaller... 

Congrats! There is a little button next to his portrait that toggles the window opacity. No, it's not terribly fast, the Juno is a pretty lack luster engine. You may need to wait for better engines like the Wheesley for serious long distance trips. You shouldn't need chutes to land, although drogues aren't bad for killing speed once you've touched down. Just decrease your speed and keep your prograde marker (the yellow circle on the Navball) at or just above the white horizon line as you come down, hit the brakes once you're on the ground.

You can add more fuel back in if you want, but you may need to add more engines as well, the TWR stuff is still mostly accurate but unlike a rocket a plane doesn't need 1:1 to take off, as it's wings do a lot of the work by generating lift. How low of a TWR you can get away with greatly depends on the weight of the plane and the amount of wing it has.

Not a problem glad to help!

(I use a mod that changes them a bit, nothing to worry about.)

Edited November 25, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket

[bewing]

Tundra is near the north and south poles, so you need to fly a quarter way around the planet. Badlands (since the biome revamp) only exist on the other side of the planet -- so you have to fly halfway around for that.

As swjr-swis said -- you need to go to where the biome is, and then look around for a lake. But not every lake will do; just some of them. So even once you are there, you still probably need to search.

With an ideal design, you can get a juno-powered plane up to about 500 m/s. But it won't have very good range. The other engines make you go faster, but it's very easy to accidentally make a draggy airplane -- and that will slow you right back down again.

[MoridinUK]

So I got to the badlands!  The contract had suggested nav points so I aimed at one and made my way there, I had to fuel up the fuselage to about halfway, minor adjustments to ensure CoM still in the right place with the centre of lift (Aerodynamic view) 

I managed to land in the water about 150 meters from the nav point... shores! So I did the kerbal thing and fired the engines up and hydroplaned to the exact point to get the badlands!

No such nav point is available for my tundra mission, I'm thinking about ditching it!  

Thank you so much for all the help!  It took a while to get to the badlands, flying 180m/s most of the way there, having to stop the plane getting too high or low while on timewarp!  Thanks everyone!