A "KSP Loading..." Preview: New Idle Animations

[razark]

12 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

It probably is a salute.  The heels of their feet come together as the hand raises over the chest.  They also appear to stand straighter.

I did notice that when I went back and looked at it again.

 

12 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

The defense is that there's nothing wrong with it in the first place.

Exactly.

[Xurkitree]

If you wanted your stock standard salute, that's impossible, since Kerbals can'rtlift their hand to the top of their heads. 

This is the best we're getting on kerbal biology.

 

[Pthigrivi]

6 hours ago, jagfour said:

Ignorance is bliss. So I will enlighten you.

Where did Mexico's unique hand gesture during their anthem originate?

This is called “saludo a la bandera” (salute the flag) and this gesture is the way the Mexicans give respects to the Mexican Flag and is stipulated by the Mexican laws during the Flag ceremony in official and sports events where the Flag is involved.

Citing the law related to the use of the Mexican Flag.

ARTÍCULO 14.- El saludo civil a la Bandera Nacional se hará en posición de firme, colocando la mano derecha extendida sobre el pecho, con la palma hacia abajo, a la altura del corazón. Los varones saludarán, además con la cabeza descubierta. El Presidente de la República, como Jefe Supremo de las fuerzas armadas, la saludará militarmente.

The civil salute to the Mexican Flag will be done in a straight position, putting the right hand extended over the breast, with the palm facing down to where the heart is located. The male people will salute the flag with the head uncovered.

 

So KSP. Should political statements be in this game? How careful were you in getting the localisation upgrade correct?

 

Thanks for the history on this. Do you mind if I ask where you are from? I agree that politics and political gestures are fraught and subjective but I don't think almost any gesture is comparable to the sieg heil. It has come to represent not national pride (indeed Germans are more disgusted than most by it) nor any specific economic politics, its purely a symbol of hate and dehumanization.

I also don't believe a total avoidance of politics is even possible in a game like this. The career mode mechanics imply system of exchange and capital, the inclusion of parts based on American and Soviet historical designs has huge number of political implications. The moon landing itself was a deeply political and nationalistic act. Im personally more concerned by the inclusion of Wernher von Kerman than I am by the mexican salute, but I understand that these are elements of history and that history is complicated and inevitably political in nature. Even the avoidance of history is a political decision. 

So yes, the inclusion of a salute of any kind is political, just like the inclusion (or lack of inclusion) of female kerbals is political, but that doesn't make it wrong. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Pthigrivi

[Tyko]

38 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

Thanks for the history on this. Do you mind if I ask where you are from? I agree that politics and political gestures are fraught and subjective but I don't think almost any gesture is comparable to the sieg heil. It has come to represent not national pride (indeed Germans are more disgusted than most by it) nor any specific economic politics, its purely a symbol of hate and dehumanization.

I also don't believe a total avoidance of politics is even possible in a game like this. The career mode mechanics imply system of exchange and capital, the inclusion of parts based on American and Soviet historical designs has huge number of political implications. The moon landing itself was a deeply political and nationalistic act. Im personally more concerned by the inclusion of Wernher von Kerman than I am by the mexican salute, but I understand that these are elements of history and that history is complicated and inevitably political in nature. Even the avoidance of history is a political decision. 

So yes, the inclusion of a salute of any kind is political, just like the inclusion (or lack of inclusion) of female kerbals is political, but that doesn't make it wrong. 

Assuming it is a salute I'm not sure why it makes sense as an arbitrary motion for a Kerbal standing around bored. Do people who are bored just decide to stand up straight and salute randomly? So, politics aside, it's just not a common action, so why include it?

I'd much rather have a kerbal try to scratch their little green butt through their spacesuit. That's something that almost everyone would do, it would be funny and not (hopefully) offensive to anyone - much more Kerbal.

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Tyko

[klgraham1013]

54 minutes ago, Tyko said:

I'm not sure why it makes sense as an arbitrary motion for a Kerbal standing around bored. Do people who are bored just decide to stand up straight and salute randomly?

I agree.  It really doesn't make sense as simple random movement.  I do think the salute would be neat as a button press, though.  I really do like the idea of all Kerbals standing around saluting when you hit a button.  Let's show that Kerbal pride, people!

Edited November 29, 2018 by klgraham1013

[Bill Phil]

1 hour ago, Tyko said:

Assuming it is a salute I'm not sure why it makes sense as an arbitrary motion for a Kerbal standing around bored. Do people who are bored just decide to stand up straight and salute randomly? So, politics aside, it's just not a common action, so why include it?

I'd much rather have a kerbal try to scratch their little green butt through their spacesuit. That's something that almost everyone would do, it would be funny and not (hopefully) offensive to anyone - much more Kerbal.

 

Kerbals aren’t people, at least not human people. As such the random actions of an alien species could be entirely different. Do pilots scream while flying airplanes? No. Some Kerbals do, however, so we know they do things humans don’t do. So why is it a problem if they randomly salute?

A button would be cool though. The Apollo astronauts saluted the US flag when planting it on the Moon, so a salute of sorts would have precedent in space exploration.

[Tyko]

9 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

Do pilots scream while flying airplanes?

There are a number of cases where astronauts or cosmonauts were censored so history wouldn't have a record of them screaming or cursing.

Funny story about NASA: https://io9.gizmodo.com/5873762/how-nasa-kept-astronauts-from-swearing-on-the-moon

Sadder story about Roscosmos, but another example: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367857/US-intercepted-Russian-cosmonaut-Vladimir-Komarovs-final-words-rage.html

10 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

So why is it a problem if they randomly salute?

Not necessarily a problem, but I'm just suggesting that there are a LOT of other actions that could be used that are less military/political/polarizing than saluting.

I still wanna see a kerbal awkwardly standing with one leg off to the side, a frustrated expression and trying to reach around and scratch their butt...maybe even doing a little hop in a circle trying to reach   

Edited November 29, 2018 by Tyko

[Xurkitree]

Why are you complaning about salute when we should be complaining about the fact that the Kerbals cannot dab

Speaking of which, @SQUAD will these animations be editable by modders on release?

Edited November 29, 2018 by Xurkitree

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, Bill Phil said:

Kerbals aren’t people, at least not human people. As such the random actions of an alien species could be entirely different. Do pilots scream while flying airplanes? No. Some Kerbals do, however, so we know they do things humans don’t do. So why is it a problem if they randomly salute?

A button would be cool though. The Apollo astronauts saluted the US flag when planting it on the Moon, so a salute of sorts would have precedent in space exploration.

The Kerbal's aren't humans defense has always fallen flat to me.  It's human nature to associate human traits with human like creatures.   Heck.  We even do it with our pets.

[Bill Phil]

4 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

The Kerbal's aren't humans defense has always fallen flat to me.  It's human nature to associate human traits with human like creatures.   Heck.  We even do it with our pets.

Yeah. But with this I would argue it’s more of a cultural difference. Kerbal culture hasn’t really been addressed as far as I know. Randomly saluting could be normal to their culture, just something Kerbals do. Heck, the only buildings on their planet are space program related. It’s fairly clear that they’re quite different from us. We’re not entirely aware of the entirety of that difference.

1 hour ago, Tyko said:

There are a number of cases where astronauts or cosmonauts were censored so history wouldn't have a record of them screaming or cursing.

Funny story about NASA: https://io9.gizmodo.com/5873762/how-nasa-kept-astronauts-from-swearing-on-the-moon

Sadder story about Roscosmos, but another example: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367857/US-intercepted-Russian-cosmonaut-Vladimir-Komarovs-final-words-rage.html

For one, I was referring to airplanes. For another, you can find as many cases as you want of pilots acting out, but in general they don’t scream when everything is going perfectly fine, especially if they’re experienced.

I was also referring to screaming in terror, not spouting expletives. Even screaming in anger is not really relevant to what I’m referring to.

[JoaquinJAR]

its just the salute of the kerbalkind i guess?

[Tyko]

12 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

I was also referring to screaming in terror, not spouting expletives. Even screaming in anger is not really relevant to what I’m referring to.

I've never heard a kerbal scream in terror...  

[GearsNSuch]

Maybe they're just measuring their heartbeat.

[klgraham1013]

@Bill Phil

The only thing I'll say is that the animation was made by a human most likely in Mexico.  It's also very likely he was trying to animate a salute.  Us trying to create different reasons for the gesture is perhaps over complicating the matter.  Imagine if this discussion was about a Kerbal adjusting his helmet bring an insult or slur.  It's giving meaning where there was never intended to be any.

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.  ...and I'll reiterate, there's nothing wrong with a salute being in the game.

[StrandedonEarth]

1 hour ago, GearsNSuch said:

Maybe they're just measuring their heartbeat.

Or restarting their heart after Jeb’s BadS “landing”

[klesh]

Hmm, my Kerbals are rarely if ever idle.   I guess thes are cool.   

I’d prefer to see a salute button on the PAW, orsome other method to tigger it, because it will be lame to stand your kerbal next to a newly-placed flag, and have to wait for 8 random idle animations to play before you get the salute youre looking for for your screenshot.  

Why not attach the saluting to the end of the flag placing animation, and hold the salute until the player moves the kerbal?

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, Xurkitree said:

Why are you complaning about salute when we should be complaining about the fact that the Kerbals cannot dab

Is there a definition of dab that I'm not aware of that is something they cannot do? Like, dabbing a napkin to mop up some small spill? Not only would I think they could do that, I expect it's instinct for them.

[DeltaDizzy]

14 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Is there a definition of dab that I'm not aware of that is something they cannot do? Like, dabbing a napkin to mop up some small spill? Not only would I think they could do that, I expect it's instinct for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dab_(dance)

Edited November 30, 2018 by DeltaDizzy

[StrandedonEarth]

22 minutes ago, DeltaDizzy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dab_(dance)

Yup, my eleven-year-old loves to dab. Given that, I'd say that a dab animation should definitely be added. It might actually get these kids playing KSP! And I think it would be a great idea to be able to trigger at least a few of the animations by keyboard or PAW, like many other games do. People can get distracted by that sort of thing...

Edited November 30, 2018 by StrandedonEarth

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, DeltaDizzy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dab_(dance)

Oh great.

Do we also have to watch them do the other 5,419 stupid moves that have been made up but fade away over the past few decades? Because I want them to have to do The Carlton as well.

[klgraham1013]

KSP dances will be the next DLC.

[HebaruSan]

39 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Do we also have to watch them do the other 5,419 stupid moves that have been made up but fade away over the past few decades? Because I want them to have to do The Carlton as well.

No Mun-Walk?

[Pthigrivi]

I bet we could get them flossing. Or maybe a little gwara gwara

Edited November 30, 2018 by Pthigrivi

[HebaruSan]

44 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

I bet we could get them flossing. Or maybe a little gwara gwara

[Gapone]

In (not so) far future:

KSP 2.0.0 changelog:

*Bugfixes