[1.3.1 <= KSP <= 1.12.5] KAX - Kerbal Aircraft Expansion KAX — Under Lisias' Management — v2.8.1.0 [2021-0824]

[Lisias]

On 3/11/2019 at 3:42 PM, AFF said:

Is it possible to add reverse trust on electric prop?

I will work on it, thanks - it's a nice idea. It may take a little due some other pressing issues (mainly on Real Life), but I will get into it.

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KAX/issues/3

[kcs123]

17 hours ago, Lisias said:

I will work on it, thanks - it's a nice idea. It may take a little due some other pressing issues (mainly on Real Life), but I will get into it.

IIRC, reverse thrust worked on electrical engines on older version of KAX and KSP (1.2.x or 1.3.x don't know exactly). Might be good idea to check out older versions of mod and KSP.
Could be missing modul in part config file or it could be firespitter mod that cause culprit. IIRC, KAX depends on firespitter and relation between two could be issue.

I hope that this info provide more help than it could lead toward looking in wrong direction.

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, kcs123 said:

Could be missing modul in part config file or it could be firespitter mod that cause culprit. IIRC, KAX depends on firespitter and relation between two could be issue.

KAX uses FSplanePropellerSpinner, FSswitchEngineThrustTransform and ModuleAlternator. The only novelty is ModuleEnginesFX and EFFECTS nodes (that, frankly, I'm rolling back to FSEngineSounds as they behaves better with it).

I have KAX historical releases since 2.0, and this part had born on KAX 2.3.4 (KSP 0.90). Problem is… Nothing had change significantly on the thrusting model. But your hint leaded me to FSswitchEngineThrustTransform:

MODULE
{
        name = FSswitchEngineThrustTransform
        defaultTTName = thrustTransform
        alternateTTName = alternateThrustTransform
        useNamedAlternate = 1

So I think I had to search for the problem on Firespitter itself anyway. KSP 1.3 appears to have break this.

Problem is… This is already an stablished behaviour for KAX since 1.4.0. I'm unsure about the decision I have to make - to break (new) expected behaviour, or rollback it to the previous one (assuming I can fix Firespitter).

 

[kcs123]

I'm glad that I was of some help. And figured out when it was worked for me, it was in KSP 1.0.5. when I made this one:

Quote

Electrical KAX SeaPlane Mk1
Water and electricity is not always good combination. But Kerbals figured out that it is good combination for small SeaPlane.
When battery charge is consumed, mass remains the same. Without mass change, craft will always have same behaviour at given altitude and spped. Craft is capable to land on runway or sea - your choice. For landing on sea, use all flaps, set pitch angle around 5 degree and slow down craft to ~60 m/s for touch down.
On touchdown at sea, don't use brakes ! Instead of using breaks, leave flaps deployed and pitch up slightly. Try to keep pitching angle between 5-10 degree until craft is slowed down enough.

I know that reverse thrust was working back then. Don't know if any other mod have decent electric motors beside KAX. Anyhow, at least you have narrowed down issue, take your time to take care of it.

EDIT:
And another example that worked for me in KSP 1.1.2. That one used IR parts to hide skiding in cargo bay.

Edited March 13, 2019 by kcs123

[AFF]

On 3/13/2019 at 2:09 AM, Lisias said:

I will work on it, thanks - it's a nice idea. It may take a little due some other pressing issues (mainly on Real Life), but I will get into it.

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/KAX/issues/3

Thnx, that would be great. I have old desined airdrone for Eve and now my mission is stoped) 

P.S. We need more powerful electric prop, like this) https://www.siemens.com/press/en/feature/2015/corporate/2015-03-electromotor.php 

 

[Lisias]

Note to myself and for any Add'On author:

Aircraft propulsion; a review of the evolution of aircraft piston engines
Fayette Taylor, C.]
https://repository.si.edu/handle/10088/18674

 

Smithsonian Annals of Flight

https://repository.si.edu/handle/10088/18670

[TheHelicopterKid]

great! now i can make a Vtol!!

[Lisias]

On 4/27/2019 at 9:11 PM, TheHelicopterKid said:

great! now i can make a Vtol!!

Yes…. But it will not work as you expect...

Yet.

[OPBlue]

What happened to spanner? If he actually quit what will happen to his mods? they will probably be picked up if he did actually quit. But i was gonna comment on the SM AFV's page about the T-90 being possessed.

 

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, OPBlue said:

What happened to spanner? If he actually quit what will happen to his mods? they will probably be picked up if he did actually quit. But i was gonna comment on the SM AFV's page about the T-90 being possessed.

He kept his reasons to himself - or at least, didn't shared them to me.

Most of his Add'Ons are all ARR, no one are allowed to legally keep them going. Sorry to be the one to tell you - I'm terribly sad myself, I'm a great enthusiast of the Maritime packs (it was the reason I was toying with KJR/L and ended up helping people with it recently).

What can be done are 'meta-add-ons' - Add'Ons from third parties that, once the user has downloaded the original and installed them, you install the former over the later to fix things - as long the "meta-add-on' doesn't have itself any ARR material from anyone else as the Author, this is legal.

On the long run, however, someone else will have to rewrite a replacement from scratch, as it's being done with Kerbin Side Remastered.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Lisias
better grammars. I'm evolving!

[OPBlue]

Well... i hope hes okay. but i was gonna say that one of the tanks in SM AFV's was possessed by a demon... seriously, i need an exorcist... like, now. its already taken out the runway... 

WELP.. Whatcha gonna do?

So will his mods be Auto updated or whatever the term is? Because i just got BD Armory properly working and all it took was a brand new PC and i still wanna sink some ships. 

[Lisias]

16 hours ago, OPBlue said:

but i was gonna say that one of the tanks in SM AFV's was possessed by a demon... seriously, i need an exorcist... like, now. its already taken out the runway... 

The thing makes a big jump? (I call this "Jumping Jack Event")

If yes, it's a mesh problem. Some animations need (invisible) pivotal points outside the colliders, and some old are under the terrain. Something changed on KSP last versions (or perhaps it's Unity) and these pivots are triggering an Unholy Event on the physics engine, and the whole craft is kicked to the air by KSP to prevent what it thinks will be its destruction.

16 hours ago, OPBlue said:

WELP.. Whatcha gonna do?

So will his mods be Auto updated or whatever the term is? 

This thread is about KAX, so I don't plan to even remotely support others Add'Ons here. I hope you understand.

What I think would help is you to open a thread on the support forum asking SM users to gather together and help each other. Just remember to do not redistribute any original material with the fixing packages and everything should be fine.

Mention me on the thread. I'm orphan too.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Lisias
Hit "save" too soon...

[OPBlue]

To be honest, I have some social anxiety so i cant really talk to others. Also, even though he shut down all his threads he possibly maybe hopefully will come back, but if he doesn't i bet someone will pick the mods back up(maybe not due to copyright issues). And if no one picks it up i am thinking of learning Unity over the summer break and possibly try to start making a mod by fall or winter. But since copyright exists i wont be able to pick up his mods (even if i ask him he may not trust me and hand the permissions over to a more trusted user)

 

[Lisias]

On 5/10/2019 at 11:12 PM, OPBlue said:

but if he doesn't i bet someone will pick the mods back up(maybe not due to copyright issues).

This will not happen. ARR is ARR — there're some loopholes in the law that can be exploited to do some maintenance, but they are shady and probably non forum compliant, so it's good as nothing for us here.

I understand that SMCE transferred the rights he planned to, and if he didn't do it further, t's because he didn't wanted to do so, and probably never will.

 

On 5/10/2019 at 11:12 PM, OPBlue said:

i am thinking of learning Unity over the summer break and possibly try to start making a mod by fall or winter.

More important than learning Unity is learning 3D modeling and texturing.

I remember reading that the configs for the parts are under a permissive license (this information needs to be validated, I'm talking from memory, and my memory fails sometimes) so in theory it's possible to launch a replacement Add'On with the same configs but all new art.

I could use some help on KAX too, my 3D modeling and texturing skills are amateurish and my time somewhat scarce nowadays to invest on it.

But first things first. My advice to you is to learn a good (and preferable free) 3D Modeling tool. I'm using Blender, by the way.

Unity goes second, there's no real point on using Unity without 3D models to work at first place...

Edited May 13, 2019 by Lisias
Hit 'save" too soon.

[Angstinator]

On 5/6/2019 at 7:33 AM, Lisias said:

Most of his Add'Ons are all ARR, no one are allowed to legally keep them going.

Why any mod author would ever use this kind of bloody useless licensing is beyond me.

Why any other mod author would ever respect this kind of bloody useless licensing - well, not beyond me, but honestly I don't see why.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Angstinator

[OPBlue]

I am using Blender too, and also watching tutorials on how to use it. I'm still in the process of learning, and once I've gotten used to it I will see how good I am, make some example parts, put them in the game, then send the file to you. I know making my first mod isn't as simple as I think it is but I feel that i can do it.

Also I don't know what style of planes would fit KAX but seeing how its called Kerbal Aircraft Expansion i would guess its just planes in general. But when I learn how to make mods and if i join KAX i want to learn how to make weapons using BD Armory and maybe I could work on a weapons add on designed around KAX but I'm not sure that's the direction you want KAX to go.

I'll continue working with Blender and Unity and once i get some example parts ready I'll send the file over so you can decide if i join the development team or not. If not, it's okay. Also i might be changing my name on the forums because i don't really like mine at the moment.

 

 

P.S: Did I say KAX enough in the second paragraph?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

16 minutes ago, Angstinator said:

Why any mod author would ever use this kind of bloody useless licensing is beyond me.

Some people want to have their designs to be associated with their name. Also some people copy mods and re-release them as their own, and to have that protection keeps them from doing that. And even if they do copy it; moderators will shut their thread down and give them a warning. Besides that copyright is indeed "bloody useless.".

Edited May 14, 2019 by OPBlue
Seperation of posts | Discovering i can't change my name | Forgetting to put a reason to edit the second edit

[Angstinator]

11 minutes ago, OPBlue said:

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Some people want to have their designs to be associated with their name. Also some people copy mods and re-release them as their own, and to have that protection keeps them from doing that. And even if they do copy it; moderators will shut their thread down and give them a warning. Besides that copyright is indeed "bloody useless.".

Nothing's stopping those same people from re-releasing on another site, though.

Besides, with a mod author who quit, presumably permanently, what's the point of not opening up all his mods? It's like that kid who'd rather toss his cookies than share them when he's full.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Angstinator

[OPBlue]

Just now, Angstinator said:

Nothing's stopping those same people from re-releasing on another site, though.

True, but if someone sees the mod on another site; that person can contact the moderators and let them know about the license on it so they can take it down. 

 

2 minutes ago, Angstinator said:

Besides, with a mod author who quit, presumably permanently, what's the point of not opening up all his mods? It's like that kid who'd rather toss his cookies than share them when he's full.

We don't know why Spanner quit because one day he asked the moderators to close his threads and then he vanished. He never let anyone know (that we know of) ahead of time that he was quitting so he never gave the mods to anyone. I don't really know legal stuff so don't quote me on this but if he did leave forever his copyright license will expire and then someone will pick it up eventually. I'm not trying to be rude but this isn't really the right thread to be discussing this because there's no real relation that i know of between the discussion and the thread it is being discussed on. But maintaining the thread isn't my responsibility (yet?).

[scottadges]

37 minutes ago, OPBlue said:

We don't know why Spanner quit because one day he asked the moderators to close his threads and then he vanished.

I was just browsing around forums and saw this thread. I looked up Spanner on Spacedock and happened to see this:

https://spacedock.info/profile/SpannerMonkey

From the description:

"Hi thanks for visiting SM Industries on SpaceDock. Due to poor health i will no longer be modding KSP"

Not trying to spread gossip or talk about users or anything, just thought I'd share that info RE: the conversation above.

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, OPBlue said:

I am using Blender too, and also watching tutorials on how to use it. I'm still in the process of learning, and once I've gotten used to it I will see how good I am, make some example parts, put them in the game, then send the file to you. I know making my first mod isn't as simple as I think it is but I feel that i can do it.

Also I don't know what style of planes would fit KAX but seeing how its called Kerbal Aircraft Expansion i would guess its just planes in general. But when I learn how to make mods and if i join KAX i want to learn how to make weapons using BD Armory and maybe I could work on a weapons add on designed around KAX but I'm not sure that's the direction you want KAX to go.

I'll continue working with Blender and Unity and once i get some example parts ready I'll send the file over so you can decide if i join the development team or not. If not, it's okay.

Right now, don't care about KAX. Care about learning.

KAX is a niche Add'On. I don't plan to compete with SXT or Airplane Plus, but to fill some gaps instead. I also plan to keep Firespitter as a dependency (and it's the reason that I try to find time to contribute the fixes upstream, while toying with a personal fork of mine).

Adding weapons to KAX is not exactly on my plans, but a companion Add'On would not be a bad Idea. KWX (Kerbal Weapons Expansion) doesn't sounds bad at all.  But I think they should match KAX's role (see below).

If you ask me, I intend to focus on early, pre-first war aviation and post second war aviation (First War is somewhat covered by Firespitter, but perhaps there's something to be explored on the Second?), but before the jet era. yeah, I like piston engines and Props. I plan to finish and maintain the electrical and jet engines already on the pack, but I think that Firespitter, Airplane Plus and SXT are already doing a decent job on these niches, so i don't have that compelling desire to exploit these further - unless we find historical evidences that they at least tried that on the historical time I'm focusing in.

Yeah - I'm a frustrated aviator.  

I also ask you to consider carefully the license you plan to release such material. We have already some ARR material on KAX, and I don't intent to expand this. New material should be somewhat compatible with the current licenses used (CC BY NC SA would be good, I think, but I open to ideas) - but I'm being too forward. There're a lot of water to cross under the bridge until this.  

Just remember one thing, however: this is not a job, you will not get paid. We do this on the Stone Soup premises.  

 

3 hours ago, OPBlue said:

P.S: Did I say KAX enough in the second paragraph?

Perhaps one more time would be even better.  

 

— — — POST EDIT — — — 

I choose to move unrelated responses to the following thread. Could you guys do any follow up there? Thanks!

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Lisias
Post edit

[Snark]

Folks, just a friendly reminder to stay on topic.  If you want to talk about mod licensing and etiquette in general, there's another thread for that.  This thread is not the place for you to complain that mod authors get to choose how people use their stuff.  Such discussion is off-topic for this thread, and belongs elsewhere.

If you want to talk about this mod, then here's the place to do that.

Thank you for your understanding.

[kcs123]

Back on topic. What is current status of KAX ? Is it safe to use on KSP 1.7.x ? I was on hiatus regarding playing KSP for long time, I think that I skipped almost all of Spanermonkey's maintenance releases. And last question, latest KAX release available from CKAN is one from keptin, for KSP 1.2.2. Now way obsolete for usage on KSP 1.4.x and greater.

Is there are a reason why it is not distributed trough CKAN (like author does not allow it), or noone mentioned to CKAN staff that there is new repository available ?

13 hours ago, Lisias said:

If you ask me, I intend to focus on early, pre-first war aviation

That reminds me, I almost forgot about this one:

And, yes I agree there is a gap with electrical engines, there almost no mods to create some small electrical drones. Perhaps same model used for early pre WWI craft can be used for that, but instead of using fuel, to use electricity instead.

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, kcs123 said:

Back on topic. What is current status of KAX ? Is it safe to use on KSP 1.7.x ? I was on hiatus regarding playing KSP for long time, I think that I skipped almost all of Spanermonkey's maintenance releases. 

Working. Some parts are not correctly implemented yet, but it's on me - they will work as is in any KSP version where Firespiter works.

The sound issues were fixed - again, relying on Firespitter (didn't got the patience to make the thing work on stock sound engine - there's somethng ont he life cycle of the thrust that I don't understand yet - and since Firespitter works fine…).

 

2 hours ago, kcs123 said:

And last question, latest KAX release available from CKAN is one from keptin, for KSP 1.2.2. Now way obsolete for usage on KSP 1.4.x and greater.

Is there are a reason why it is not distributed trough CKAN (like author does not allow it), or noone mentioned to CKAN staff that there is new repository available ?

Yes. Inertia.

At first, there was some issues to be fixed and I concluded it would be better not to spread my borks on CKAN.

But then, the most notorious glitches are fixed, the one that remains… oh well, we can live with it for some more time. Had people not talked about them on this thread, I would removed them from the Stable releases, publishing them only on Betas.

And I plain forgot about CKAN - I don't use the client myself, as it doesn't fits very well to my needs (and this is the only reason I forgot about it) - but the service is solid and strongly needed not exactly by the client, but for the infra structure it provides for guaranteeing the survivability of the Add'On as times goes by.

I will check for any objections on the ARR material just to be sure - but other than that, I don't see reasons to do not publish the thing on SpaceDock, Curse and also CKAN other than some extra efforts.

 

3 hours ago, kcs123 said:

That reminds me, I almost forgot about this one:

[Link about firespitter]

Firespitter saw some idle times on the past, and at that time it was reasonable that removing it as a dependency was considered a solution.

However, coping with the Stock modules proved to be tricky when using Piston/Props engines. Things just didn't coped well - and i really tried. But in the end, what really fixed everything was rolling back to FSSoundEngines.

Firespitter is not in the danger of becoming obsolete anymore. The present maintainer is accepting pull requests with fixes, and I'm providing such fixes as time allows.

 

3 hours ago, kcs123 said:

And, yes I agree there is a gap with electrical engines, there almost no mods to create some small electrical drones. Perhaps same model used for early pre WWI craft can be used for that, but instead of using fuel, to use electricity instead.

I planned to focus on that era I specified, but one thing is planning, other the reality. Once there's no one available fulfilling that niche, it wouldn't be a waste of resources to fulfill that need.

I just don't plan to redo what's already done - unless a compelling reason arises. Time is a scarce commodity nowadays! 

[OPBlue]

Yeah, i know modding is a hobby rather than a paying job. And i do get ahead of myself sometimes because when you said you were looking for help on KAX i just jumped on board and decided I'm joining, but i may not be good at making meshes and texturing them. But i am a glass half full kind of guy so i tend to find the positives in everything.

But i have a question, will Cold War era designs fit in with KAX? 

 

Wish me luck on my dreaded upcoming STAAR tests this Wednesday and Thursday. its the one that determines if i go to high school and i have to be tested on science and social studies which i suck at remembering. (btw the STAAR test is Texas's end of year test that usually determines if we move on to the next grade.)

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Firespitter saw some idle times on the past, and at that time it was reasonable that removing it as a dependency was considered a solution.

However, coping with the Stock modules proved to be tricky when using Piston/Props engines. Things just didn't coped well - and i really tried. But in the end, what really fixed everything was rolling back to FSSoundEngines.

Firespitter is not in the danger of becoming obsolete anymore. The present maintainer is accepting pull requests with fixes, and I'm providing such fixes as time allows.

Ah, no, you missunderstand me (I should explained better). I was not thinking about firespitter dependency, I was thinking about that propeler I was not yet try in game:

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

I planned to focus on that era I specified, but one thing is planning, other the reality. Once there's no one available fulfilling that niche, it wouldn't be a waste of resources to fulfill that need. 

I just don't plan to redo what's already done - unless a compelling reason arises. Time is a scarce commodity nowadays! 

Thanks for info and I can oly advice you to take your own pace in development, working on mods when you also enjoy working on it. It is almost only (and important) reward you will ever get.