KSP Loading... Preview: The Δv per Stage Display

[l0kki]

Now what we need is an apoapsis/periapsis height and time to both display

Edited December 8, 2018 by l0kki

[SpenSpaceCorp]

AW YISSS!

[Beetlecat]

6 hours ago, Cassel said:

What is this purple button near new craft?

It's the workshop button for craft upload, etc. Not played the newer versions, I see?

[Cydonian Monk]

44 minutes ago, Beetlecat said:

It's the workshop button for craft upload, etc. Not played the newer versions, I see?

It's only present in Steam versions of the game. The rest of us never see that button. 

[Superfluous J]

43 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

It's only present in Steam versions of the game. The rest of us never see that button. 

Specifically it must only be there if launched from Steam. Because my copied Steam versions that I run from a command prompt don't have it either.

[Xurkitree]

/Now, what are those plus marks on the top right corners of the parts in the VAB?

[SchwinnTropius]

22 minutes ago, Xurkitree said:

/Now, what are those plus marks on the top right corners of the parts in the VAB?

They're parts with variants.

[Xurkitree]

I'm pretty sure that part variants are accessed thorugh that drop icon in the lower left ... further more, those + signs are on every part.

[Xavven]

It's been more than a year since I was actually hyped about any KSP update, but this... THIS has got me HYPED!

I mean, this should have been in version 1.0, but better late than never. Bravo, devs!

[JPLRepo]

2 hours ago, Xurkitree said:

/Now, what are those plus marks on the top right corners of the parts in the VAB?

The plus in the top right of the part icons in the toolbar appear when you create a custom part group. Clicking it brings up the pop-up UI to add a part to a custom group that you have created.

9 hours ago, Paaaad said:

Can it calculate RCS Δv?

Currently it calculates delta V for any part that uses moduleengines only.

[Xurkitree]

9 minutes ago, JPLRepo said:

The plus in the top right of the part icons in the toolbar appear when you create a custom part group. Clicking it brings up the pop-up UI to add a part to a custom group that you have created.

Currently it calculates delta V for any part that uses moduleengines only.

Wait, are we allowed to create and destroy part groups now?

[JPLRepo]

7 minutes ago, Xurkitree said:

Wait, are we allowed to create and destroy part groups now?

It's only been in the game since V0.90. From the changelog:
* Custom Filters (and subcategories) can also be created and edited for user-made collections of parts.

[Xurkitree]

Just now, JPLRepo said:

It's only been in the game since V0.90. From the changelog:
* Custom Filters (and subcategories) can also be created and edited for user-made collections of parts.

Learn something new everyday... Atleast I can sort all the EL parts now...

[basic.syntax]

RIP "Shmelta-V" 2015 - 2018. We can no longer poke fun at you. 

I've said in the past - just because Squad won't say yes or no, in some very long passionate/heated threads on this subject - doesn't mean it would not happen  

Perhaps even original KSP developer HarvesteR will be on the fence about this addition, since some days he thought he wanted it, but other days he favored keeping the mystery (which was the final word until now.)

 

• Is Delta-V display an option?
• How will it work in Career mode? (Original concepts suggested unlocking increasing level of detail, by Engineer skill level.)

[V7 Aerospace]

How will this feature be implemented in career?

Perhaps Delta V calculation is only available once the level 2 or 3 VAB (Or more suitable building) is unlocked?

I'd see it similarly to how upgrading mission control allows the use of flight planning.

[klgraham1013]

3 hours ago, V7 Aerospace said:

Perhaps Delta V calculation is only available once the level 2 or 3 VAB (Or more suitable building) is unlocked?

Yes.  Let's make a game where the difficulty curve is in reverse.  Squad already did this with patched conics.  Let's not make things worse.

Edited December 9, 2018 by klgraham1013

[V7 Aerospace]

22 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Yes.  Let's make a game where the difficulty curve is in reverse.  Squad already did this with patched conics.  Let's not make things worse.

Delta V calculation is completely new to me and many other players, lots of people have played the game for ages without it. Patched conics and flight path calculation are really quite vital to spaceflight, but Delta V calculation is much more of a comfort in my eyes.

As for a reverse difficulty curve, that's kinda how KSP career unlocks work. You start of with barely useful parts and resources, and get better parts and resources as you take on bigger challenges. I get what you mean, but those are just my 2 cents.

[Red Iron Crown]

5 hours ago, V7 Aerospace said:

How will this feature be implemented in career?

Perhaps Delta V calculation is only available once the level 2 or 3 VAB (Or more suitable building) is unlocked?

I'd see it similarly to how upgrading mission control allows the use of flight planning.

You literally have all the information to calculate dV by hand from day one, locking the automatic calculation of it behind career unlocks is a terrible idea as it just pushes people back to mods or external tools. 

[klgraham1013]

The difficulty curve of KSP should come from getting to the next celestial body.  Not arbitrary unlocks.  The unlocks in KSP should help you in that premise.  Not be a general hindrance or annoyance to the player.

[XLjedi]

37 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

The difficulty curve of KSP should come from getting to the next celestial body.  Not arbitrary unlocks.  The unlocks in KSP should help you in that premise.  Not be a general hindrance or annoyance to the player.

Tend to agree...  a novice user would not necessarily understand why their UI is changing to reveal more info as they play the game.  I do think there's some benefit in having the DV appear right from the start so a new player would essentially be trained in how it works from day one.  Eventually they should catch on that when the DV runs out they can no longer maneuver.

On the other hand...  I might not be opposed to a requirement that an engineer be on board for the display to work?  So, I guess I can see it from both sides.

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

You literally have all the information to calculate dV by hand from day one

Except the formula itself.  It's not even in the KSPedia.  Should new players really be expected to go outside the game and search for something?  Especially if they're not quite sure what that something is?

Edited December 9, 2018 by klgraham1013

[Pthigrivi]

48 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

The difficulty curve of KSP should come from getting to the next celestial body.  Not arbitrary unlocks.  The unlocks in KSP should help you in that premise.  Not be a general hindrance or annoyance to the player.

At the same time you really don't need to calculate dV for your first few flights. There's a legit value to developing that intuitive sense of how much fuel and thrust you need. There's also already a LOT going on in KSP, and I can see the reason why you'd keep clutter to a minimum for players in their first hour in the game. If dV calcs opened up on the first VAB upgrade that would seem fine to me, long before you really need them. 

[tater]

1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

At the same time you really don't need to calculate dV for your first few flights. There's a legit value to developing that intuitive sense of how much fuel and thrust you need. There's also already a LOT going on in KSP, and I can see the reason why you'd keep clutter to a minimum for players in their first hour in the game. If dV calcs opened up on the first VAB upgrade that would seem fine to me, long before you really need them. 

But the trial and error makes much more sense when you see what dv works, and what doesn't.

@klgraham1013 is 100% correct. From a gameplay design standpoint career has always been exactly backwards. Most games are designed such that as the player improves in his or her progress, the difficulty increases. Most crappy games do this via arbitrarily harder enemies. Sans competition (which is why I am so much in favor of a way to have a Space Race vs another player or the computer), there is no way that a game like KSP doesn't in fact get easier as you play (at least until life support is a thing, and possibly failures).

 

 

[Pthigrivi]

9 minutes ago, tater said:

But the trial and error makes much more sense when you see what dv works, and what doesn't.

@klgraham1013 is 100% correct. From a gameplay design standpoint career has always been exactly backwards. Most games are designed such that as the player improves in his or her progress, the difficulty increases. Most crappy games do this via arbitrarily harder enemies. Sans competition (which is why I am so much in favor of a way to have a Space Race vs another player or the computer), there is no way that a game like KSP doesn't in fact get easier as you play (at least until life support is a thing, and possibly failures).

Game design is a little different in an open world like KSP though. If you just hang out around Kerbin, of course, things get easier as you unlock more things. What increases the challenge is going out further and mounting bigger and more complicated missions to other planets. For that, you absolutely need flight planning tools like dV.

I think a lot of us who have been playing for a long time have forgotten what it was like the very first time we played or aren't thinking about the play experience for people just coming into the game without any prior knowledge of how rockets work. Staging is new, gimbaling is new, aerodynamics are new, gravity turns are new. I think there's a legitimate value to keeping screen clutter way down so folks can focus on what's immediately necessary to learn. Upgrading the VAB can happen pretty easily after the 3rd or 5th launch, right around the time when new players might start thinking about landing on the mun and making more reliable, more efficient rockets. 

I mean the way I play and I'm sure you and Klgraham play it seems obvious to have dV the whole time. I'm more thinking about the broader play experience for everyone.

[passinglurker]

@XLjedi this has been a frequent and popular request ever since squad hired porkjet to replace and expand the space plane catalog. You really are out of the loop I'd you didn't see this coming and thought no one asked for it. Also assuming redoing a part breaks an old craft somehow you can just use infinite fuel and the cheat menu's orbit teleporter to reposition replacements for any craft you believe the game unfairly decommissioned.

@JPLRepo is the hero of the hour people 

Edited December 9, 2018 by passinglurker