SQUAD

KSP Loading... A closer look into Update 1.6

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Great work! Will the new cube map reflections be added to the Kerbal visors? 

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1 minute ago, nestor said:

Can be turned on/off. Up to you to use it. 

Is this essentially the PBR shader update that was talked about so long ago, but never came to be? Because if so, that would be totally awesome...

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Great work, the only suggestion I have is fully white versions of the nosecones.

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2 minutes ago, SpaceCube2000 said:

Great work! Will the new cube map reflections be added to the Kerbal visors? 

Yes! They take advantage of the cube map. 

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4 minutes ago, nestor said:

Yes! They take advantage of the cube map. 

Will there be a set size (i.e. 128x128 px) or will we be able to set the quality (including as RD pointed out before, disabling it)

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1 minute ago, NoMrBond said:

Will there be a set size (i.e. 128x128 px) or will we be able to set the quality (including as RD pointed out before, disabling it)

There’s a setting where you can choose the resolution and how often it’s refreshed. 

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1 hour ago, RoverDude said:
1 hour ago, Tyko said:

Love the new designs. The MH engine re-spec is really exciting!

@RoverDudeAny chance you can share the new MH engine specs? 

That's for @Maxsimal to share, not I :)

Fair point :)  so... @Maxsimal can you share?  :)  

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1 hour ago, Tyko said:

Love the new designs. The MH engine re-spec is really exciting!

@RoverDudeAny chance you can share the new MH engine specs? 

There's a dev blog coming up shortly that has all the relevant stats, I believe it'll be posted pretty soon, just needs to be vetted by the comms team. :)

Edited by Maxsimal
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Just now, Maxsimal said:

There's a dev blog coming up shortly that has all the relevant stats, I believe it'll be posted pretty soon, just needs to be vetted by the comms team. :)

Gracias  :)  

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Update looks super good! 

Why does it feel like @SQUAD done mode work in the last 2-3 months compared to the whole of 2017? Or is it just that the content of this update is much more relevant to the full playerbase..? 

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I am continually disappointed with the way KSP's art is going. Every part seems to be unable to have any subtlety to it at all. By exaggerating the details of every part, rockets are going to end up looking incredibly messy and noisy. There is a good reason why most parts, especially the porkjet parts, have generally quite subtle texturing, with panel lines generally only visible up close. And yet again, the new engine parts are not an improvement on part texture and model quality, share little visually with the original part, don't fit in with the existing style of parts (necessitating re-doing the parts that were already re-done well!!), and are only marginally more realistic. The LV-909 was fine. Maybe it could have done without the hazard stripes now that those design elements have more or less been removed. But there was nothing at all wrong with the design of the engine.

I like the environmental cubemaps, I look forward to seeing what they do for the game. It occurs to me that one of the problems is the lack of normals and specular maps that make the engine look like it's not just a mediocre matte papermodel, and if the parts turn metallic and work with cubemaps then we could see improvment.

My heart truly sinks down, down, down to the bottom of my chest cavity whenever I see or think of the way the art style is going. I genuinely hate it, because KSP both deserves better and can have better than this mediocrity. I don't know how we can have some rather fantastic new probe core and kerbal suit parts one update, and then the next the models look so continually bad. And it's the same problem as Making History. Those parts are almost good, but they fall short due to mediocre texture quality with few exceptions. The part devamps are easily the worst part of an update that is otherwise looking fantastic--delta-v displays, new animations for Kerbals, and the works. 

Have you noticed that I'm no longer the "Hype Train Driver" anymore? It's because I don't feel hyped for KSP. I haven't since around the time Porkjet et al left. All Hype Train threads I've made since have been empty lies. Partly it's because I've "grown up," I was much younger when I was first doing the Hype Train. But largely it's because each update has been one step forward and two steps backwards. I'd be lying if I said that part of my anger at the new parts isn't motivated in part by nostalgia, and because I dislike change for change's sake. But Ven's Stock Revamp, the Porkjet revamps, Nertea et al's Restock project, and Hoojiwana's Stock Replacement Assets have all done justice to stock parts in a way that the official updates just don't. They are throwing away the old and what they're replacing it with is not consistently and greatly better. 

I am far more critical of this then I ever would be of a free mod of the same quality. There's a choice there, if I don't like it I can just not use it. But I am forced to look at these new parts, unrecognizable and knowing that they will never be better. Once you commit to a revamp like this, you can't un-do the mistakes you're making, you can only try to patch them up later. There will never be an update to fix what you're breaking. And if I want to keep my mods up to date, if I want the delta-v display, if I want current game balance, and if I want kerbal animations and everything else new updates have to offer, I am forced to deal with these new parts. And beyond that, people have to pay for this content.

I'd be a lot happier if you'd at least keep all the old parts as switchable variants instead of soon-to-be-deprecated hidden models. Hell, I might even be happier if you changed the names and descriptions of all the parts and aesthetically and physically started from scratch, because that seems to be what you're doing anyway from an aesthetics point of view.

If Squad can't consistently produce artwork which is better than what modders are doing for free, then maybe they should just stop. In my opinion there is no maybe about it, Squad should absolutely stop making new artwork and focus on things that modders can't do. Primarily bug fixes. Bug fixes. Bug fixes. Bug fixes. Life support and speed of light delay implementation in stock. Bug fixes. I considered adding a very intentionally obnoxious extra few paragraphs of Bug Fixes to make a point about the number of bugs in the game. But I think that would undermine the tone of this message. Bug fixes.

The delta-v stuff is really just fantastic though, it's way better than I ever thought it could be, and implemented into the game u.i. better than mods could. This is what Squad should be doing.

Speaking of the tone of this message, I understand that this may come across as harsh. But hey, no one complains about how harsh criticism of the existing game art is for the original developers, so I don't see any conflict there. I mean no personal offense to anyone, this is a hot take, and I wrote this while angry at a lot of things.

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I like 90% of the skin re-vamps. The 10% that I don't care for is absolutely horrible art. In any case, majority wins, right? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

There is just one more thing: the C7 Aerospace Division’s Small Nose Cone looks like it has had *ahem* "encounters" with the local birds around the KSC. You can't blame them though. There aren't any windshields about.

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11 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

I am continually disappointed with the way KSP's art is going. Every part seems to be unable to have any subtlety to it at all. By exaggerating the details of every part, rockets are going to end up looking incredibly messy and noisy. There is a good reason why most parts, especially the porkjet parts, have generally quite subtle texturing, with panel lines generally only visible up close. And yet again, the new engine parts are not an improvement on part texture and model quality, share little visually with the original part, don't fit in with the existing style of parts (necessitating re-doing the parts that were already re-done well!!), and are only marginally more realistic. The LV-909 was fine. Maybe it could have done without the hazard stripes now that those design elements have more or less been removed. But there was nothing at all wrong with the design of the engine.

I like the environmental cubemaps, I look forward to seeing what they do for the game. It occurs to me that one of the problems is the lack of normals and specular maps that make the engine look like it's not just a mediocre matte papermodel, and if the parts turn metallic and work with cubemaps then we could see improvment.

My heart truly sinks down, down, down to the bottom of my chest cavity whenever I see or think of the way the art style is going. I genuinely hate it, because KSP both deserves better and can have better than this mediocrity. I don't know how we can have some rather fantastic new probe core and kerbal suit parts one update, and then the next the models look so continually bad. And it's the same problem as Making History. Those parts are almost good, but they fall short due to mediocre texture quality with few exceptions. The part devamps are easily the worst part of an update that is otherwise looking fantastic--delta-v displays, new animations for Kerbals, and the works. 

Have you noticed that I'm no longer the "Hype Train Driver" anymore? It's because I don't feel hyped for KSP. I haven't since around the time Porkjet et al left. All Hype Train threads I've made since have been empty lies. Partly it's because I've "grown up," I was much younger when I was first doing the Hype Train. But largely it's because each update has been one step forward and two steps backwards. I'd be lying if I said that part of my anger at the new parts isn't motivated in part by nostalgia, and because I dislike change for change's sake. But Ven's Stock Revamp, the Porkjet revamps, Nertea et al's Restock project, and Hoojiwana's Stock Replacement Assets have all done justice to stock parts in a way that the official updates just don't. They are throwing away the old and what they're replacing it with is not consistently and greatly better. 

I am far more critical of this then I ever would be of a free mod of the same quality. There's a choice there, if I don't like it I can just not use it. But I am forced to look at these new parts, unrecognizable and knowing that they will never be better. Once you commit to a revamp like this, you can't un-do the mistakes you're making, you can only try to patch them up later. There will never be an update to fix what you're breaking. And if I want to keep my mods up to date, if I want the delta-v display, if I want current game balance, and if I want kerbal animations and everything else new updates have to offer, I am forced to deal with these new parts. And beyond that, people have to pay for this content.

I'd be a lot happier if you'd at least keep all the old parts as switchable variants instead of soon-to-be-deprecated hidden models. Hell, I might even be happier if you changed the names and descriptions of all the parts and aesthetically and physically started from scratch, because that seems to be what you're doing anyway from an aesthetics point of view.

If Squad can't consistently produce artwork which is better than what modders are doing for free, then maybe they should just stop. In my opinion there is no maybe about it, Squad should absolutely stop making new artwork and focus on things that modders can't do. Primarily bug fixes. Bug fixes. Bug fixes. Bug fixes. Life support and speed of light delay implementation in stock. Bug fixes. I considered adding a very intentionally obnoxious extra few paragraphs of Bug Fixes to make a point about the number of bugs in the game. But I think that would undermine the tone of this message. Bug fixes.

The delta-v stuff is really just fantastic though, it's way better than I ever thought it could be, and implemented into the game u.i. better than mods could. This is what Squad should be doing.

Speaking of the tone of this message, I understand that this may come across as harsh. But hey, no one complains about how harsh criticism of the existing game art is for the original developers, so I don't see any conflict there. I mean no personal offense to anyone, this is a hot take, and I wrote this while angry at a lot of things.

Not everyone, including me, wants to rely on mods for new or altered parts.

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I love the new Terrier, I know there is some nostalgia because it's such a great engine, but these new variants are pretty as hell - the yellow-gold striping is a nice homage the the OG version. Concerning the dV readout, as an old school player who likes the gamey aspect of just guessing if my rocket will get there and back, will there be an option either in the main options or config file to disable it? (dodges tomatoes) I've used KER at one point and decided building rockets became to mechanical for my tastes.

Edited by Waxing_Kibbous
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2 minutes ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

I love the new Terrier, I know there is some nostalgia because it's such a great engine, but these new variants are pretty as hell. Concerning the dV readout, as an old school player who likes the gamey aspect of just guessing if my rocket will get there and back, will there be an option either in the main options or config file to disable it? (dodges tomatoes) I've used KER at one point and decided building rockets became to mechanical for my tastes.

I think @TriggerAu can tackle that one. 

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While DSEV already has its own revamps I would be curious to see what Squad does to redo the MPL and Hitchhiker..

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KSP is transiting from an awesome game about space to an amazingly awesome game about space!!!! I have never been this exited about an update

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5 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

While DSEV already has its own revamps I would be curious to see what Squad does to redo the MPL and Hitchhiker..

The hitchhiker is showing it's age, but I think the MPL is fine honestly. It's still a relatively new part.

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4 minutes ago, Rover 6428 said:

KSP is transiting from an awesome game about space to an amazingly awesome game about space!!!! I have never been this exited about an update

I'm getting as excited for this release as I was for 1.2, heck I may even get the expansion if Squad keeps this goodness up :funds::sticktongue::funds:

Edited by Waxing_Kibbous
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43 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

If Squad can't consistently produce artwork which is better than what modders are doing for free, then maybe they should just stop. In my opinion there is no maybe about it, Squad should absolutely stop making new artwork and focus on things that modders can't do. Primarily bug fixes. Bug fixes. Bug fixes. Bug fixes.

I mean.  Yeah.

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12 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

If Squad can't consistently produce artwork which is better than what modders are doing for free, then maybe they should just stop. In my opinion there is no maybe about it, Squad should absolutely stop making new artwork and focus on things that modders can't do. Primarily bug fixes. Bug fixes. Bug fixes. Bug fixes.

It's my understanding that different groups within SQUAD work on different things, which means that one group working on part redesigns doesn't really affect the group working on bug fixes.

From what I've gathered, the opinion on these new designs is fairly positive from the community. Of course there are issues, and many people including myself have voiced these in order to improve the end result, but I wouldn't just straight up say that SQUAD should completely give up on updating the game's look.

Deep down, nearly all of us are fond of the old part designs, I sorely miss the Mk1-2 Command Pod being the go-to 3 Kerbal pod, and even the old, silly-looking Poodle has some fans. In the end, these old designs have character and individuality that more realistic designs have a much harder time replicating, and you'll always have those who don't want to see the old parts go. Updating the look of the game has been something that's always happened, it's why we no longer fly rockets with green and grey fuel tanks, why the VAB is no longer white and red and why these revamps are being done right now. 

At the end of the day it's all down to opinion, but I feel that the new LV909 design is nice, realistic and still has the spirit of the old engine with the bright yellow highlights. I agree that some of the parts feel too detailed or over-greebled, but I wouldn't make it out to be such a large issue as it appears in your reply (taking into account what you said about being angry though, which is fair enough).

Edited by V7 Aerospace
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Yay! New console news, a new xbox controller, and 8 weeks of holidays!

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15 minutes ago, V7 Aerospace said:

snip

Oh course.  I think the issue is all we're seeing is new parts and wiz bang shiny features.  Have they said anything about the memory leak from 1.5 at all?  News of actual bug fixing is few and far between and over shadowed by the things that provide better marketing potential.

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Kinda sad to see the ole LV-909 go. The idle animations are kickin', my two favorites are the arms swinging and the helmet adjusting, those are so Kerbal. Love all the hard work and it's very appreciated, my hats off to all involved. 

Edited by Castille7
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