Kerbal Space Program 1.6: “To Vee or not To Vee” Grand Discussion Thread

[NorthernDevo]

Hello, fellow Kerbonauts!

I've been playing with the new 1.6 update for a few days now; and am enjoying it. 

In many ways it's no different than any other update; clicking wildly and wondering where the bloody blue blazes your favourite part went is pretty much KSP standard.

I can't possibly report on bugs (save one); I haven't the technical know-how nor have I the precision to compare specific aspects of 1.6 to the previous version.

I would, however, like to say things about ONE of the changes made to a specific part; namely, the Mk.2 Lander Can.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, I think I can sum up my observations in a single screenshot:

YOU GUYS, like, TOTALLY ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOOOOT!!!!!

Hubba HUBBA I LOVE THIS THING!!!!!

First - the view out the windows is fantastic! I LOVE letting Jeb land the rover in his usual psychotic style and just enjoy watching the scenery rise far too fast.

I never knew about the changes to the Mk 2 (reading patch notes is for suckas...) until I accepted a mission to rescue Gilfred from orbit. Just as a time-waster; I'm about 2 months out from a Duna window and more Kerbonauts are always welcome. You know - ones I don't have to pay for. Since the Orange Four are now removed from active duty (Val, Bob and Bill are preparing for the Duna mission and Jeb is Chief Test Pilot), I need a few more victi...er volunteers.

(PLUS - and I don't know if this is new or not BUT Gilfred was in a VERY wide orbit that would have brought him into the Mun's influence in an orbit and a half. The projection lines clearly showed that he'd smear himself right across the East Crater; causing a lot of paperwork and a rather unsightly stain. So I went and got him. Don't worry; it's all OK - he's not getting wages until the cost of the mission is paid off.)

Anyhoo; burning into parking orbit near his 'debris'; we were in Kerbin's shadow and I couldn't make out what he was in. it looked - square. Boxy. Nothing in my inventory looked like that. Right-clicking said it was a 'Mk-2 Lander Can'. 

Head-scratches abounded.

I waited until Kerbol shone its nourishing light on us and I went Gheeeee! at the sight - a new model! Whoopee!

Racing back to the VAB (Well; returning Gilfred first and only missing KSP by a continent or two) I looked up the Mk-2 Lander Can and clicked the variations - and there it was!

WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!

Don't think I haven't been playing with THIS new toy since Christmas! LOL!

Love it, love it, LOVE IT!!!!

Oh - and yes; the bug.

The Mk-2 Lander Can has 'Lander' and 'Rover' variants; I built my Rover Max HLTV around the 'Rover'; as seen above. 

But when reloading it in the VAB, the Mk-2 is in the Lander variant. Which looks totally Kerbal - that is to say weird and awkward. I have to close the game and restart once or twice until the proper configuration resets itself. 

No worries at all; I'm totally jazzed and LOVING this!

Cheers!

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by NorthernDevo

[Leadcatcher]

13 minutes ago, GrandProtectorDark said:

The problem wont be gone at the first game load. You need to load, close and load the game. Strange thing but it sorta works

yep, i see now. Thank you. Also note: i have installed several other mods. some affect it some don't. I would install all the mods you want, then validate files through steam. Otherwise you may have to be dumb like me and do it several times. Thank you GDP.!

Edited December 28, 2018 by Leadcatcher

[GrandProtectorDark]

Just now, Leadcatcher said:

yep, i see now. Thank you. Also note: i have installed several other mods. some affect it some don't. S i would install all the mods you want, then validate files through steam. Otherwise you may have to be dumb like me and do it several times. Thank you GDP.!

Some have noted that the problems Occur whenever a mod edits the PartDatabase.cfg. So new part mods means having to redo the fix

[RealKerbal3x]

@NorthernDevo I love the changes to the Mk2 lander can- it is indeed awesome!

The bug can be fixed by verifying the game files through Steam. I’ve heard that it’s an issue with the way Steam is downloading files right now.

[Xd the great]

I love the little acts done by bored kerbals. Thanks, Squad.

[Aegolius13]

Does anyone know if there's a setting to make the delta-v readout in the VAB / SPH default to vacuum rather than atmospheric?  I try to build rockets from the top down and thus nearly always want to see vacuum stats first. 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Aegolius13

[Superfluous J]

2 hours ago, Aegolius13 said:

Does anyone know if there's a setting to make the delta-v readout in the VAB / SPH default to vacuum rather than atmospheric?  I tried to build rockets from the top down and thus nearly always want to see vacuum stats first. 

 

Haha I was coming here to say this. I am embarrassed to say how many times I was tricked by how poor my terriers were showing. "no way that's only 300 m/s!"

[Mjarf]

On 12/26/2018 at 11:17 PM, peteletroll said:

Just made my first lander can Mum rover for a survey. Even with small RoveMax wheels, it runs great and steady at 4x speed!

I put 12 of the smallest rover wheels on it and it's a surprisingly good offroad vehicle.

[GrandProtectorDark]

Addendum #4

The stock Readouts work absolutely fine even with (modded) ultra high efficiency engines that give you +100km/s of deltaV, they also seems to work absolutely fine with (modded)engines that consume 3 or more resources.
(Don't really know what could have gone wrong but)Well done

[Gapone]

They killed Slim Shuttle's beautiful ass. Now it's ugly.

[steve_v]

Yay, stock ΔV readout.
Not-yay, 7 months and joystick support still not fixed.

No fix joystick support == no purchase DLC or future product.

[snip]

Edited January 3, 2019 by Vanamonde

[Yakuzi]

Ow man, a stock delta-V readout, Xmas came early (but late )!!!

I'm having some serious z-fighting issues with wings in 1.6.0 vs 1.5.1 though, anyone else experiencing this?

Very disappointed to see the Mk2 texture flipping bug still hasn't been addressed in 1.6.0, @SQUAD @UomoCapra @JPLRepo or whoever is in charge, could you pretty please have a look at this, it's been well over 2 years since this bug was introduced. The fix (proposed by @Porkjet at the time) is extremely straightforward:

Spoiler

Change the following lines in the Mk2 fuel tank .cfg files in the GameData/Squad/Parts/Mk2FuselageLong and Mk2FuselageShort:

• Remove line: mirrorRefAxis = 0, 0, -1
• Change node_attach line to: node_attach = 1.25, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

You'll have my eternal gratitude!

[klesh]

20 minutes ago, Yakuzi said:

Ow man, a stock delta-V readout, Xmas came early (but late )!!!

I'm having some serious z-fighting issues with wings in 1.6.0 vs 1.5.1 though, anyone else experiencing this?

Very disappointed to see the Mk2 texture flipping bug still hasn't been addressed in 1.6.0, @SQUAD @UomoCapra @JPLRepo or whoever is in charge, could you pretty please have a look at this, it's been well over 2 years since this bug was introduced. The fix (proposed by @Porkjet at the time) is extremely straightforward:

  Reveal hidden contents

Change the following lines in the Mk2 fuel tank .cfg files in the GameData/Squad/Parts/Mk2FuselageLong and Mk2FuselageShort:

• Remove line: mirrorRefAxis = 0, 0, -1
• Change node_attach line to: node_attach = 1.25, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

You'll have my eternal gratitude!

 

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/10098

"Not a bug", apparently.  lol.

Edited January 2, 2019 by klesh

[coredumpster]

Been playing 1.6 for about a week now, coming off a long 1.4.5 career save that I finally finished, putting a Kerbal or probe on every body in the system with OPM.  I skipped over 1.5.x and jumped straight to 1.6 and I'm loving all of the new features!

I have however noticed an issue with 1.6 that seems to be more pronounced than in previous versions.  Specifically the timewarp changing orbital parameters pretty severely.  

I was used to this on very long voyages ( IE, to Jool and beyond ), but now I'm seeing it happing between Kerbin and the Mun.  I launched a vessel to the Mun successfully, setup my Mun intercept with Periapsis of 75 km, and timewarped to the SOI.  As soon as I hit SOI, my Periapsis is now 646 km, and I don't have enough dV to correct for this error.

Is it possible that some of the optimizations that make 1.6 play much smoother have impacted this issue and made it more pronounced?

Is anyone else playing 1.6 seeing this behavior happen more frequently?

[Yakuzi]

2 hours ago, klesh said:

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/10098

"Not a bug", apparently.  lol.

 

Then can we have this six legged "feature" on all parts please*:

* /s

Edited January 2, 2019 by Yakuzi

[Superfluous J]

4 hours ago, Yakuzi said:

 

Then can we have this six legged "feature" on all parts please*:

* /s

No because that other part is not vertically symmetrical.

[_Zee]

6 hours ago, klesh said:

 

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/10098

"Not a bug", apparently.  lol.

Ya thats ridiculous. There are clearly plenty of reasons why players would want to be able to control EXACTLY how all their parts line up, one of which is... you know.... every single other part allows us to do that.

That is one lazy response and I kinda understand why players are angry about Squads handling of the bugtracker now. You see responses like this and of course no one wants to spend time on it.

Edited January 3, 2019 by _Zee

[klgraham1013]

3 hours ago, _Zee said:

Ya thats ridiculous. There are clearly plenty of reasons why players would want to be able to control EXACTLY how all their parts line up, one of which is... you know.... every single other part allows us to do that.

That is one lazy response and I kinda understand why players are angry about Squads handling of the bugtracker now. You see responses like this and of course no one wants to spend time on it.

Yep.  I've been given the "not a bug" response quite recently.  Squad has decided that's their stance on a few of these, and nothings going to be done about them.

Edited January 3, 2019 by klgraham1013

[Superfluous J]

4 hours ago, _Zee said:

Ya thats ridiculous. There are clearly plenty of reasons why players would want to be able to control EXACTLY how all their parts line up, one of which is... you know.... every single other part allows us to do that.

That is one lazy response and I kinda understand why players are angry about Squads handling of the bugtracker now. You see responses like this and of course no one wants to spend time on it.

I don't agree with the decision on their part, but it's obviously working as designed. I mean, they had to actively make the texture flip and they must have had some reason to desire it.

[Anth]

Zee. I agree thats a bug. definitely....whats the policy on resubmitting a bug?

[_Zee]

30 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I don't agree with the decision on their part, but it's obviously working as designed. I mean, they had to actively make the texture flip and they must have had some reason to desire it.

I dunno, I can easily see this being another one of those 'zero-continuity' decisions that was made back in the 0.2x days before KSP really knew what it was, and its just never been fixed since.
Kind of like how half the stock parts were supposed to have this "cute, ramshackle, jury-rigged, found-on-the-side-of-road" aesthetic before they realized players want an accurate sim, not an arcade game, and only just now in 1.6 are they finally trying to put a singular "professional" theme in place.

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

I don't agree with the decision on their part, but it's obviously working as designed. I mean, they had to actively make the texture flip and they must have had some reason to desire it.

There was.  It was bug related or something.  Can't remember exactly.  At this point, especially with the part revamps, they should should probably take a look at this.  It's the only part that does it, making it look very much like a bug.

[OHara]

10 hours ago, coredumpster said:

Is anyone else playing 1.6 seeing [periapsis change by large amounts, more than orbited-body diameter, upon SOI change ] happen more frequently?

No, and I would have noticed that by now.   My only guess is that a mod has not gotten a needed update, or maybe the modder doesn't yet know the need. Similar things happened with HyperEdit a few versions ago.  Maybe ask over on whichever Tech Support subforum fits the best.

[Maxsimal]

On 12/29/2018 at 5:11 AM, Aegolius13 said:

Does anyone know if there's a setting to make the delta-v readout in the VAB / SPH default to vacuum rather than atmospheric?  I try to build rockets from the top down and thus nearly always want to see vacuum stats first. 

 

On 12/29/2018 at 8:00 AM, 5thHorseman said:

Haha I was coming here to say this. I am embarrassed to say how many times I was tricked by how poor my terriers were showing. "no way that's only 300 m/s!"

If you go to the deltaV app, you can set up various aspects of what you'll see with the dV readout & the expanded readout, including the situation.  Consult the KSPedia for more information.

 

[Yakuzi]

6 hours ago, Anth12 said:

Zee. I agree thats a bug. definitely....whats the policy on resubmitting a bug?

I have resubmitted the issue to the bug tracker here: https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/20423. Any up-votes or comments are immensely appreciated!

 

6 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

No because that other part is not vertically symmetrical .

??? Neither are the fuel tanks...

 

6 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I don't agree with the decision on their part, but it's obviously working as designed. I mean, they had to actively make the texture flip and they must have had some reason to desire it.

AFAIK, the "fix" was introduced sometime between KSP 1.0.5 and 1.1.3 to make attaching Mk2 parts easier for new KSP players (originally you had to press "w" and "d" before the Mk2 parts were lined up correctly when attaching radially, check out the Mk2 crew cabin as the "fix" isn't applied to that part for obvious reasons). The texture flipping buggy behavior was an undesired side-effect of the "fix", but Squad decided to implemented it anyway (@Porkjet and @sal_vager weren't happy about this**).
Comparing the current state to the original non-buggy, expected, intuitive, symmetrical Mk2 attachment rules:

Current Mk2 fuel parts:

Radial attaching parts:     Easy
Rotation behavior:             Unexpected, counter intuitive, inconsistent, buggy
Asymmetric craft:              Yes
In-game workaround:        No
Bug persistent*:                 Yes
 

Original Mk2 fuel parts:

Radial attaching parts:      Medium
Rotation behavior:              As expected (like any other part in the game)
Asymmetric craft:              No
In-game workaround:        Yes
Bug persistent*:                 n/a

*Persistent: if you fix the .cfg files and share a craft with correctly oriented Mk2 textures, anyone who loads it in a stock KSP version will have the textures flipped again.

The current Mk2 attachment rules are clearly more undesirable than the original ones. @SQUAD knows this otherwise they would've applied the "fix" to every part (like the Mk2 crew cabin for instance). @UomoCapra could you please look into either providing a proper fix that doesn't result in this buggy texture flipping behavior or reverting to the original Mk2 attachment rules, cause what we have now is a very sloppy "fix" with some very undesirable side-effects.

** The original 2016 post where @Porkjet and @sal_vager expressed their discontent concerning the "fix" was deleted somehow, in 2017 sal_vager mentions again he's unhappy about the "fix" here, and said he asked "to get it revoked again".