UnKerballed Start Mod Discussion

[SpinkAkron]

Just now, theonegalen said:

I really liked the UBM Early Aviation node. What do you think of a 5 science Basic Planes node that is in Tier 2 with Engineering 101 and Basic Rocketry?

I really like it too.  My only misgiving is it'd be directly copying UBM and I'm not sure if that's ok given his license.

[theonegalen]

Just now, SpinkAkron said:

I really like it too.  My only misgiving is it'd be directly copying UBM and I'm not sure if that's ok given his license.

Using a concept is ok. Using or modifying the same code wouldn't be.

[SpinkAkron]

3 minutes ago, theonegalen said:

Using a concept is ok. Using or modifying the same code wouldn't be.

OK.   How about if we move the Aviation node to tier 2 and replace the Aviation Tier 4 with something like Advanced Aviation? 

[kcs123]

6 hours ago, SpinkAkron said:

OK.   How about if we move the Aviation node to tier 2 and replace the Aviation Tier 4 with something like Advanced Aviation? 

That might work. Tier 2 is not way too from start. But, yes, I have liked being able to create simple aircraft early in career for ability to grind few science points and money if stuck for some reason and not being able to put rocket in space and/or orbit trough first few milestones. UBM was created with GAP in mind too. Might be good to hear opinion from @inigma on that topic.

[SpinkAkron]

I've added a new five point node between Start and Stability.  Internally it is called Aircraft but in game it displays the title and description for Aviation.  I changed the title and description of Aviation to display Advanced Aviation, but it's otherwise unchanged.   All airplane parts I had moved to Start are now in this new Aircraft/Aviation node.

The changes to Aviation are cosmetic only so any mods that add parts to Aviation will still show up in the same place, now renamed Advanced Aviation.  It's going to be a bit confusing so I may try to truly move Aviation to tier 2 and make the new node tier 4. That's more complicated tho.

 UnKerballedStart.zip

UnKerballedStart Tech Tree Spreadsheet updated

[Zuthor]

@SpinkAkron Been trying the mod with the Seti contracts and the one problem i have is when playing on hard mode you get stuck with science and with completing the first 2 contracts. Maybe if possible add a way to transmit the science at the first node so its esier to get to the next 5 science node because i got stuck on 3.8 science and unable to beat the 18k barrier

[SpinkAkron]

15 minutes ago, Zuthor said:

@SpinkAkron Been trying the mod with the Seti contracts and the one problem i have is when playing on hard mode you get stuck with science and with completing the first 2 contracts. Maybe if possible add a way to transmit the science at the first node so its esier to get to the next 5 science node because i got stuck on 3.8 science and unable to beat the 18k barrier

Yeah, I've been thinking about that.  I use Remote Tech which has a short range antenna that I moved to start.  Without it,  I have run the goo tests at launch and from the runway, but that's a little hokey. 

How about we move the Communitron 16 to start and the fragility of that at high speeds lead to the development of the Communitron 16-S in Engineering 101?  Transmitting science would also reveal the inadequacy of the Stayputnik's battery that is rectified by the battery also in Engineering 101.

-added-

With the rover parts in Engineering 101 and the airplane parts in the relocated Aviation node, you have two ways to make a science collecting buggy for the KSC. 

Edited January 1, 2019 by SpinkAkron
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[SpinkAkron]

After much rather counter-intuitive fiddling, I got the Aviation tech node properly moved to tier 2 and replaced it with the new Advanced Aviation node in tier 4.  This means any mods adding parts to Aviation will show in up the tier 2 Aviation node.  There is plenty of room to add a couple new aviation-related nodes off of Stability, which I think might be useful.

I also moved the Communitron 16 to start. Thanks @Zuthor!

 UnKerballedStart.zip

[Zuthor]

The Communitron works fine when get to slow down enough to quickly send the science but it's pointless to have a way of sending science but not enough electrical charge to send it, for the started probe doesn't have enough charge in it. In hard mode science is harder to get. I got the goo from the launch pad and the runway and did 1 landed part testing contracts but only managed to get up to 4.3 science leaving me stuck again. I'm currently just playing with stock parts.

Doing a great job and always wish the devs would add a option to start unmanned or manned tech tree. Thanks to the mod community wishes come true

[SpinkAkron]

1 hour ago, Zuthor said:

The Communitron works fine when get to slow down enough to quickly send the science but it's pointless to have a way of sending science but not enough electrical charge to send it, for the started probe doesn't have enough charge in it. In hard mode science is harder to get. I got the goo from the launch pad and the runway and did 1 landed part testing contracts but only managed to get up to 4.3 science leaving me stuck again. I'm currently just playing with stock parts.

Doing a great job and always wish the devs would add a option to start unmanned or manned tech tree. Thanks to the mod community wishes come true

Yep, we clearly need more science at start.   To me, it makes the most sense to have the thermometer and barometer at start and move the goo up to tier 3 or 4.  I think UBM had it that way, or very similar. 

Now that I look at it, the Goo has a lower science value than the Barometer, so I'll try just moving the Thermometer to start.

*more fiddling*

Ok.  Moving the Thermometer and Barometer to start with the Goo going to Survivability is the way to go. It keeps the same three science experiments by tier 3, so not a big change. I moved the battery down to Start, so you can transmit science.  Having a flimsy antenna makes it a bit dicey but you can get 5 science fairly easy now on hard difficulty.

UnKerballedStart.zip

Edited January 1, 2019 by SpinkAkron
more stuff

[Zuthor]

Awesome i was able to get enough science in the first launch. I will continue to play and see if i come across any other hurdles. Thank you for the quick response !

[kcs123]

4 hours ago, SpinkAkron said:

Yep, we clearly need more science at start.   To me, it makes the most sense to have the thermometer and barometer at start and move the goo up to tier 3 or 4.  I think UBM had it that way, or very similar.

Yep, thermometer and barometer were at starting point in UBM or very close to start, can't recall from top of my head right now. That, and most simple rover wheels to be able to run around KSC and grind few science points if you are stuck with something is one of reasons too.

Maybe to create MM patch for early probes to have sligtly more electricity and built in antenna, just for close range 100-500 km or so. That would solve issues in early hard career mode with limiting amount of parts on crafts.

First few flight should not mean to be sucess, but rather to be able to grind science points in upper atmosphere with thermometer/barometer, transmit that info on KSC before craft is smashed on the ground.

That should give you some few points to unlock next nodes and with those to actualy achieve first milestone goals. IIRc, similar conversation with Yemo is buried somewhere in SETI/UBM  thread.

[Tyko]

On 12/31/2018 at 11:50 AM, SpinkAkron said:

Alright.  It will be Advanced Flight Control when Making History is present,  Simple Command Modules when it is not.

Thanks for taking my feedback. I still wouldn't move it though. The Mk1 and the Mk1-2 are literally the "standard" command modules in the game. When the Mk2 is added from MH those three show a very clear technical progression from low to higher tech. I can't see any reason to not keep them in the same tech line.

Also, I'd avoid moving stock parts when adding other mods. This just causes confusion.

 

[SpinkAkron]

20 hours ago, Tyko said:

Thanks for taking my feedback. I still wouldn't move it though. The Mk1 and the Mk1-2 are literally the "standard" command modules in the game. When the Mk2 is added from MH those three show a very clear technical progression from low to higher tech. I can't see any reason to not keep them in the same tech line.

Also, I'd avoid moving stock parts when adding other mods. This just causes confusion.

 

I hear you but I believe my rationale is sound and I think how I placed the capsules reflects that.  I do appreciate your feedback and hope you continue to offer it.  I understand not everyone is going to agree with every choice I make but it's easy enough for folks to modify it to fit their play style should they so choose.

I think it's probably time to move this to the development forum since things have progressed to the point where it's got a real chance of being completed.  I'm going to look into what that entails.  Thanks to everyone for the input so far.

[SpinkAkron]

moved to Development Forum [WIP] UnKerballed Start