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[KSP 1.8 - 1.12+] - Probes Before Crew [PBC] Version 2.93


_Zee
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Version 2.92 released
 

//// Version 2.92 Changes

Increased EVA Suit mass carry limit from .1 to .105 (weather unit)
Updated Kerbalism patch with 11 new parts, Prosemian containers (thanks @kitamoboz)

 

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On 9/5/2021 at 4:56 AM, Cholerix said:

Station Parts Expansion Redux recently had 1.875m and 5m parts added. Who did the compatibility patches in the past? I'd be willing to help updating the mod support.

All patches were made by me. I'll take a look at getting the new SPER parts added, thanks for reporting!

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I just had a quick question regarding using this mod with Kerbalism.  Is it recommended to use PBC tweaked science rewards to maintain a normal difficulty level?  I read the info on the first page about using either PBC or Kerbalism's  'Feature Science' , but after starting my first game I'm finding science to be a little hard to come by.   Also it's my first play through so I'm not good.   

Edited by Livingfood
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4 hours ago, Livingfood said:

I just had a quick question regarding using this mod with Kerbalism.  Is it recommended to use PBC tweaked science rewards to maintain a normal difficulty level?  I read the info on the first page about using either PBC or Kerbalism's  'Feature Science' , but after starting my first game I'm finding science to be a little hard to come by.   Also it's my first play through so I'm not good.   

Welcome to the forums!

I can't speak to Kerbalism's difficulty or best settings for it as I don't use it personally. Maybe others can chime in there. But if you opt to use PBC's science values (which is achieved by disabling Kerbalism's science values, that's it) I have a handy-dandy "Recommended Settings" spoiler near the bottom of the front page post. The best setting for you depends on a lot of different things though. First I'll ask - are you using DMagic's Orbital Science mod? It's considered a must-have by a lot of folks. Without it, I wouldn't recommend setting the science slider lower than 100% for a new player. If you are using it, I would say 90-80% would be a good challenge for a new player.  Personally I play on 70% and I find it to be challenging but reasonable - but I've also been playing KSP since it was in the teens of its Alpha stage years and years ago.

Remember, you can always change the difficulty sliders in the middle of a save whenever you want. So if you need to crank it up to 100% or 200% - whatever works for you, as long as you're having fun.

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41 minutes ago, _Zee said:

 But if you opt to use PBC's science values (which is achieved by disabling Kerbalism's science values, that's it) I have a handy-dandy "Recommended Settings" spoiler near the bottom of the front page post. The best setting for you depends on a lot of different things though. First I'll ask - are you using DMagic's Orbital Science mod?

Hi Zee, 

I actually used your recommended settings for the first playthrough (70%) but without the DMagic's Orbital Science mod.   I will get that and add it for my next playthrough.  As for the Kerbalism science values, I actually looked through kerbalism settings and didn't see where to enable it's science values or not.  Is it accessible through the in game difficulty settings?  The one reason I'd like to keep using kerbalism is when I eventually do get to sending Kerbals up, I like the idea of having to support a living human.

I also wanted to thank you for your effort creating this mod.  I really enjoy the idea of progressing naturally using probes and working my way up to Kerbals.

Thanks!

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7 hours ago, Livingfood said:

Hi Zee, 

I actually used your recommended settings for the first playthrough (70%) but without the DMagic's Orbital Science mod.   I will get that and add it for my next playthrough.  As for the Kerbalism science values, I actually looked through kerbalism settings and didn't see where to enable it's science values or not.  Is it accessible through the in game difficulty settings?  The one reason I'd like to keep using kerbalism is when I eventually do get to sending Kerbals up, I like the idea of having to support a living human.

I also wanted to thank you for your effort creating this mod.  I really enjoy the idea of progressing naturally using probes and working my way up to Kerbals.

Thanks!

Lol, you saw that the settings say that 70% is the don't-go-any-lower-than-this HARD setting, correct?  If you're struggling with it then I'd say that's the first thing to start tweaking.

You'll need to ask on the Kerbalism thread for support if they've changed how to enable/disable their science feature. There should be a settings/config file in the mod directory. Not sure if they've integrated turning it on/off into the in-game menu's or not. But just like setting science at 70%, choosing to play with Kerbalism is choosing to make the game quite challenging for yourself, especially for a new player. If you're looking for a life support mod, I'd recommend TAC Life Support instead, its much more lightweight.

Edited by _Zee
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Version 2.93 released
 

//// Version 2.93 Changes

Added support for 38 new parts from StationPartsExtendedRedux (thanks for the heads up @Cholerix)
Updated Core Chart with SPER image


Wow! SPER has added a lot of new parts, all filling in the gaps at the 1.8m and 5m ranges. This update really filled in the tech tree chart nicely.

IEA7Rra.png


Enjoy!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've just come back after a break, and CKAN updated a large number of mods including PBC.

I'm running 1.9.1 with JNSQ, Restock/Restock+, DMagic and a bunch of other mods.

Now on launch MM gives the following error :-

[LOG 10:01:24.763] Applying update ProbesBeforeCrew/_Core/Zs_DeprecatedPartsPatch/@PART[HighGainAntenna5]:AFTER[ProbesBeforeCrew] to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5.cfg/PART[HighGainAntenna5]
[ERR 10:01:24.764] Error - Cannot parse variable search when editing key TechRequired = #[email protected][HighGainAntenna5_v2]/TechRequired$

I've also found that although I've unlocked the Basic Science node I don't have the MS-1 Multispectral Scanner unlocked, not sure if this is related but it's the only error appearing.

Is there an easy fix for this, happy to edit configs if needed.

***********

Never mind, looked at config and found this is deprecated in 1.12, removing that entry from cfg.

Edited by Ravlain
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It's part of the anti-exploit patch. This error is just letting you know it didn't find the new part since you're running KSP 1.9. The MM will continue patching normally afterward so it can be ignored.

Did you manage to get your MS-1 scanner issue resolved as well? Not sure which part that is, unless you are referring to the MS-R from DMagic Orbital Science. That part is unlocked in the Advanced Exploration node.

Edited by _Zee
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  • 2 weeks later...

CKAN for PBC was initially setup by a helpful somebody a while back, I've not messed with it much on my end as I've never used it.

I will say, that this mod does package and include Celestial Body Science Editor (made by DMagic) in each release since PBC2.5. But its not something you have to download separately if installing PBC manually, it's just included in the mod GameData folder (along with my custom values for it) - so I'm not sure how CKAN handles that. FYI, you can see what those custom values are on the front page More Details spoiler if you're curious.

Maybe a more experienced CKAN user can chime in here, but I think that's why it's named in CKAN.

Edited by _Zee
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CKAN doesn't install bundled dependencies. It downloads and installs the dependencies from their respective sources as separate mods. It keeps track of which mods it's installed this way, and it will uninstall dependencies that are no longer needed if you uninstall the mod.

PBC's custom values are set in ProbesBeforeCrew\_Core\Zs_ScienceParamMod.cfg, by the look of it. As they're modified using an MM config and not in some custom version of the config in the bundled SPM itself, there's no risk of a conflict when installing by CKAN.

So, basically SPM is a dependency for PBC, and CKAN installs them both correctly.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I hate starting a new career by launching a Stayputnik on SRB, so I made some configs for USI Sounding Rockets.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z3xiwgtraijaden/ZsUSI-SoundingRocketsPatch.cfg?dl=0

Basically everything is in first 3 nodes as it does not make much sense later. Playing on 1.12.2 and like many others I also have an issue where SR contracts can only be completed on first attempt or have to be retaken. Another quirk is that the launch stick does not detach as it says in description.

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On 8/22/2021 at 3:41 PM, _Zee said:

//// Version 2.91 Changes

*Antenna Range Rework, adjusting recommended DSN modifier from 80% to 35%
- Increased low-end Relay from 5M to 20M
- Increased mid-range Direct from 20G to 25G
- Increased mid-range Relay from 15G to 20G
- Increased high-end Relay from 75G to 100G
Updated Core and Deprecated to include Version-2 HG-5 Antenna (low-end Relay)
Updated Core to include Stock Magnetometer science part
- If DMagic is present, the Stock Magnetometer is removed from the game (2 identical parts with separate science tracking is no good)
Increased SAS Service Level by 1 for - Vanilla QBE Probe Core, RLA_Reborn "TET" Probe Core, USI Mk1 Wedge Probe Core
Updated USI to include USI Mk2 Wedge Probe Core
Increased Kerbal volume and mass carry limits so carrying an EVA Suit and ANY ground experiment at the same time is now possible. Coming up just short was so obnoxious...

Hey,

I have a problem that has to do with these balancing changes to the stock antennas. I am using NF Exploration (and Restock+ dunno if that adds antennas) with it's huge range of antennas and they don't seem to be effected by this. 
So the balance in my save is really weird at the moment. Is there something I can to about that?

Thanks in advance!

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I really enjoy your mod, thank you so much for this! The only little gripe i have is how you treated planes and helis progression. Command chair and controller parts tech tree placement is so far down the line that you basically can't make helis or simple propellant planes before interplanetary travel which makes no sense imho.

Once again thank you so much for all the time and work you have put into making of this!

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On 10/24/2021 at 6:40 PM, DPOHbl4 said:

I really enjoy your mod, thank you so much for this! The only little gripe i have is how you treated planes and helis progression. Command chair and controller parts tech tree placement is so far down the line that you basically can't make helis or simple propellant planes before interplanetary travel which makes no sense imho.

Once again thank you so much for all the time and work you have put into making of this!

Welcome to the forums @DPOHbl4. The command chair placement is by design. You aren't meant to have access to build a functioning aircraft until you unlock the cockpit part, which arrives 1 node sooner than the command module parts. This was a gameplay over realism decision, early access to the command chair leads to grinding science points at the KSC and I've never liked how gamey that feels. You can absolutely make aircraft before interplanetary travel, the T4 node that unlocks the cockpit part provides all the necessary parts to make a functioning aircraft. You just have to commit to the aircraft/SSTO branch of tech if you wanna build something bigger than a Cessna clone.


@mor128 ahh you've just pointed out a new NF pack I was not aware of. NF-Exploration does not have a PBC patch yet so I'll need to take a look and get it added. Thanks for reporting.

Edited by _Zee
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I'm submitting some pull requests for compatches with a few mods (OPM, GEP, StationScience, TST) to your github repo but it appears a little unloved (for one, it doesn't have the latest changes).

Let me know if there's a better way to discuss/contribute.

It took me a while using this to figure out it was the source of the (much more sensible to my mind) science body multiplier changes I was seeing. It has led to my favorite play-through of all time where the design challenges stay fresh with each transfer window to a farther planetary system. I'm using TST, StationScience, SSPX/R, and DMagic which all add a little science, so I've got the science rewards turned down to 50%. No science labs houserule. With a life support mod, every crewed mission is quite challenging and I've got to send an unmanned suite of missions to new systems before manned. This really effectively complements what you've tuned here.

Thanks for producing this!

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On 11/2/2021 at 11:37 AM, amarius1 said:

Hi, when installing this mod the techtree doesn't seem to show changes. Am I doing something wrong?

It may sound stupid question, but did you started new career game after you have installed PBC ? Because, all of tech tree mods takes effect only on new game. If you don't see changes even on new game then upload log file on some cloud service of your preference (dropbox, onedrive, googledrive...) and provide link to it. It will maqke easier for others to help you without guessing.

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On 10/30/2021 at 11:44 AM, whitespacekilla said:

I'm submitting some pull requests for compatches with a few mods (OPM, GEP, StationScience, TST) to your github repo but it appears a little unloved (for one, it doesn't have the latest changes).

Let me know if there's a better way to discuss/contribute.

/snip

You're right about the github repo being very out of date. It was never used after I made it and PBC updates are rare these days, so its been neglected ever since. I appreciate you submitting the pull requests though.

I can't say if/when I'll be able to look over new support patches for currently unsupported mods, the handful of recent "maintenance" updates (2.91 - 2.93) that I pushed were a rare exception of free time. But I welcome these submissions because I never know when I might find that extra time again. Glancing through them, it looks like most of what you've submitted is support for the solar-system overhaul mods - very cool. I'll leave the github up for now if any risk takers want to just grab your extra .cfg files to toss in with their PBC folder to give your configs a shot. If anyone wants to give this a go, please let us know how @whitespacekilla's configs worked out for you!

If you're open to it, a cfg with support for Near Future - Exploration would really be the most helpful right now. I know the antenna ranges and part placements for that one are not in sync with PBC right now and it may be awhile before I'm able to update. Even a rough draft written in my usual format with all the parts listed would be a huge time saver. Many thanks if you do, no worries if not.
 

On 11/2/2021 at 3:37 AM, amarius1 said:

Hi, when installing this mod the techtree doesn't seem to show changes. Am I doing something wrong?

5 hours ago, kcs123 said:

It may sound stupid question, but did you started new career game after you have installed PBC ? Because, all of tech tree mods takes effect only on new game.
/snip

This is partially incorrect. PBC can be updated from an old version to a new one in a running save without problems (unless explicitly stated otherwise, which hasn't happened since before KSP 1.8)
You can test this right now by starting a game with PBC 2.90, save it, close out of the game, replace your PBC folder with PBC 2.93, and you will see the changes to your tech tree in your saved game when you load it up.

However, @kcs123 is correct in that the CTT itself cannot be added or removed from a running save. You must start the new game with ModuleManager and CommunityTechTree already installed.
@amarius1, Doublecheck that MM and CTT are installed alongside PBC in your gamedata folder, and if you're still having issues post your logs.

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