SpinkAkron

[WIP] UnKerballed Start

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Here's the first cut of the size0/.625m parts start.  I created a new LV-T10 engine resized from the LV-T30, serving that role at size0.  I resized the LV-T15 from Missing History to fill the role of size0 gimbled engine.  We don't need it in the size1/1.25m line anyway.  I like @Pand5461's idea of 1.25m SRBs being available much earlier than 1.25m LFEs.  I'm not sure about having the Flea at start due to the availability of the size0 srbs from Vens, but I'm open to being persuaded.

Tier 1(start) - LV-T10 LFE, RT-1 SRB

Tier 2 - RT-2 SRB, RT-5 SRB,  Mk1 -> 0 Adapter  

Tier 3 - LV-T15 LFE, RT-10 SRB, radial decoupler

Tier 4 - LV-T30, LV-T45 

I'd like to keep the OKTO in tier 4 and the small reaction wheel in tier 3.  It make sense that reaction wheels are developed first and then combined with the probe core.  That gives a 2 parts -> 1 part efficiency gain at tier 4.  Steering/control is a deliberate pain point prior to tier 3

I've untangled the rocketry line a bit.  The Propulsion Systems line can now be extended back giving a tier 4 node separate from Advanced Rocketry so we can divide up the boosters from the upper stage/specialized engines or however makes sense.  It can now be extended past tier 6. Space is available for a third engine line to be developed if needed.

Having Nuclear Propulsion developing from rocket engines and fuel tanks doesn't make much sense.  I've disconnected it for now pending relocation. That big clot of nuclear power nodes in the upper right needs be relocated to the bottom, I'm thinking.

I don't know why they squished everything together leaving about a third of the space unused.  I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and rectify that cuz OCD.

@theonegalen- FYI, I'm changing the pos of every node. If that's relevant to your work, you might want to hold off a bit.

download updated

tech tree spreadsheet is hopelessly out of date.

Edited by SpinkAkron
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I unsquished the tech tree, taking advantage of the unused space.  This enabled me to better integrate a few orphan tech lines.  The colonization line dangling off the bottom was moved up to the survivability line and will be where the life support and habs can go.  The heat management line was moved up above the solar panels, integrating between high power electric and nuclear power, which fits nicely above that.  I haven't decided what to do with Nuclear Propulsion so I stuck it on the top for now.

Download updated.

 

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1 hour ago, SpinkAkron said:

I unsquished the tech tree, taking advantage of the unused space.  This enabled me to better integrate a few orphan tech lines.  The colonization line dangling off the bottom was moved up to the survivability line and will be where the life support and habs can go.  The heat management line was moved up above the solar panels, integrating between high power electric and nuclear power, which fits nicely above that.  I haven't decided what to do with Nuclear Propulsion so I stuck it on the top for now.

Download updated.

 

awesome

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12 hours ago, SpinkAkron said:

I'm not sure about having the Flea at start due to the availability of the size0 srbs from Vens, but I'm open to being persuaded.

I do agree that the Ven's SRB are more fitting. The VSR licensing seems to allow bundling parts with other mods (although it's best to ask the permission before the offcial release). My only concern is what happens if they are used alongside the VSR itself, will there be duplicated parts?

With the engines, I am uncomfortable about the idea of using the same model for two parts. It's better to use LV-T15 model, set the gimbal limit to 0 and then give it the full range through an upgrade.

As for the reaction wheels in a probe core: there is, as of current, a cockpit with a built-in 10 torque reaction wheel in T2. That doesn't make 0.3 torque in a probe core at T3 unreasonable. Even worse, that may make first flight with a crewed cockpit easier than with a probe core, which defeats the main purpose of the reshake. And trying to play shows that those insanely powerful reaction wheels in fact save more parts (the rocket needs less aero surfaces for stability and control in low atmo) than having a probe with tiny reaction wheels and SAS.

Apart from that, I would revamp the LV-T15 even more radically, with power reduced to 5..10 kN and mass to 0.06 t.

Rationale: with the mass of half a ton and thrust about 20 kN, LV-T15 is just a much worser Spark and has zero use after unlocking T4.

Tier 1 - LVT10 -> LV-T15 with 0° gimbal range.

Tier 2 - Mk0 or radial decoupler. Rationale: to make the completion of the "Escape the atmosphere" contract possible at this tier. Otherwise, T3 provides you with enough tech to skip that as a step of its own and get straight to orbit.

Tier 3 - give LV-T15 actual gimbal range.

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I changed my other mind back to plan A and used rescaled stock engines rather than using the one from Missing History.  I want to avoid having required mods if it can be avoided.  I got rid of the Ven's parts for the same reason. Instead I made a set of .625m tanks from rescaled stock. I don't see any reason to avoid using rescaled parts. I certainly do not have the inclination to spend a couple weeks making them from scratch.  They're fine for now, in any case. I'll look at using upgrades at some point but for now I'm more concerned with getting the tech tree and stock part placement complete. 

I expanded the precision engine line back and forward to split out specialized engines.  Nodes are still un-named and it's all an experiment at this stage.  Missing History got some more attention.   Antennas are still scattered all over the place. I'll do them next.

Download updated.

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@Pand5461, after pondering it awhile, I agree you are correct re the OKTO and reaction wheel.  I've moved the OKTO down to stability and the the Small Reaction Wheel up to Flight Control. 

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@SpinkAkron  make sure when you set up these new parts, that you make them compatible with Ven's stock revamp and other part mods like Tareobee and USI Sounding Rockets that add small probe parts to the start node.

A simple :NEEDS[!VenStockRevamp,!Taerobee,!USISoundingRockets] tag should be great. I haven't been able to look at the newest config files, so maybe you've done this already. Also make sure that the Missing History extra engines will fit in using similar tags.

Wherever you can, I think it's important to make sure that you don't change the properties of any existing parts. This way, people who use your mod are able to share and download craft files with and from people who don't. So I think it was a very good idea to use the rescaled stock parts instead of modifying the VSR or missing history parts.

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On 1/13/2019 at 7:34 PM, SpinkAkron said:

I changed my other mind back to plan A and used rescaled stock engines rather than using the one from Missing History.  I want to avoid having required mods if it can be avoided.  I got rid of the Ven's parts for the same reason. Instead I made a set of .625m tanks from rescaled stock. I don't see any reason to avoid using rescaled parts. I certainly do not have the inclination to spend a couple weeks making them from scratch.  They're fine for now, in any case. I'll look at using upgrades at some point but for now I'm more concerned with getting the tech tree and stock part placement complete. 

I expanded the precision engine line back and forward to split out specialized engines.  Nodes are still un-named and it's all an experiment at this stage.  Missing History got some more attention.   Antennas are still scattered all over the place. I'll do them next.

Download updated.

Like the direction that this is going . And I agree that not requiring mods would be the Ideal way to balance the tree. Just my two cents and to lobby for the mod I would like to see balanced in this tree the most. You might take the time to look at this  https://spacedock.info/mod/1880/RLA Reborn  

I have used this mod with my game for as long as I can remember. If someone told me I could only use one part mod I am pretty sure that I would pick this one. Although When restock+ comes out I might have to change my mind.  I'M going to try this out this weekend. I'll let you know what I think of the starting balance.

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@Delbrutis, RLA has some nice stuff. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I've added an RLA config with the beginnings of sorting things out.  The tanks were easy.  The whole engine tree above tier 5 or so is pretty much TBD, so I didn't even try to place the RLA engines other than some of the SRBs.  I'm going with @Pand5461's suggestion that engines be the limiting factor but haven't really done much beyond moving the LV-T30 and LV-T45 to tier 4.  I've been focusing on making the .625m starting parts.  Looking at RLA was a big help getting my parts to at least be in the parking lot of the ballpark for reasonable stats. I had things way off.   If you have any suggestions for engine placement or anything else, please feel free to chip in.

Download updated.

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I've pretty much finished untangling and rationalizing the tech tree.  I relocated the unmanned line up to extend the flight control line so there is a coherent probe upgrade path to match the manned capsules.   There is no need for two science lines so I combined them into one.  There wasn't an evident difference between the two and there aren't very many science parts anyway.  The tech tree structure is complete pending any changes required by @theonegalen's aviation setup.  I removed several nodes and made MM patches to reassign any modded parts that use  them to other nodes.  The nodes are available to be re-added should the need arise. 

Nodes Removed are: Landing, Advanced Landing, Heavy Landing, Advanced Motors, Experimental Motors , Automation, Efficient Flight Systems, Specialized Flight Systems, Aerospace Composites, Adv Aerospace Engineering, Storage Tech, Specialized Science Tech, Long Term Science Tech, Scientific Outposts, High Energy Science.

Nodes added are:  Fabrication, Aeronautics, Basic Construction, Early Aviation, gadgets, Specialized Rocketry, Custom Fuel Tanks, Gizmos, Early Heat Management, Adv Propulsion Systems, adv Precision Propulsion.

Per @Pand5461's suggestion, I moved a radial decoupler to tier 2 and advanced the decoupler progression accordingly.  Also per his suggestion, I upped the cost of Heavy Rocketry to 105, making the R&D upgrade required to unlock this.  I did the same with Propulsion Systems to have the same requirement in the specialized engines line.  To balance that, I moved RCS, docking ports and the station hub lower down to encourage the player to make stations around Kerbin/Mun/Minmus prior to striking out for Duna.

Download updated.

screenshot in first post has been updated, showing the full tech tree.

Edited by SpinkAkron

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