The addition of "lock position" SAS command

[4472TJ]

The addition of lock position, ie. Lock to horizon or lock to current facing position would be a good idea. This would help in rocket launching and not wearing out our fingers pressing 'A' and 'D' to correct bearing. It would also help to make space stations look even cooler, as they would now stay locked to the horizon or locked to another position. The addition of time warping to stop spinning is great but, not any good for pointing in the right direction. I think that this tiny change could make a large impact on KSP in new ways much like 1.5 but more on the mechanical side of better visuals rather than just the looks.

[The Aziz]

That's what these buttons are for.

Edited January 12, 2019 by The Aziz

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

Lock to current position would be great, if it worked like lock prograde and would always try to return to that direction instead of just trying to stay stable.

Letting us switch from horizon or orbit relative would be helpful for spaceplane reentries as well.

[4472TJ]

9 hours ago, The Aziz said:

That's what these buttons are for.

I was more meaning what @Mad Rocket Scientist said though a new set of buttons for lock position and anti lock position would be required:

5 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

Lock to current position would be great, if it worked like lock prograde and would always try to return to that direction instead of just trying to stay stable.

Letting us switch from horizon or orbit relative would be helpful for spaceplane reentries as well.

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by 4472TJ
Correction

[The Aziz]

Alright so random chosen point on navball. I cannot see how useful it would be, except for mentioned reentry where keeping AoA stable is something really needed, and maybe for planes to keep altitude, but personally, most of the time I use only those six buttons, I don't feel why would I have to keep it pointing 36° above the horizon and 18° off the antinormal marker.

But when I do, I use SmartA.S.S feature of mechjeb, because it looks like it's the only way to keep the SAS lock in wanted position after loading the ship, or during rendezvous when it loads into physics range.

[Espatie]

"Lock at current angle" is hard in some of the frames of reference though, surely?

 

"Lock at Current Angle with respect to Prograde" has a circle of possible solutions to it, only one of which is what you want.

 

What re-entry requires is (Correct me if I'm wrong) "Lock at current angle with respect to Radial on an arc which passes through Surface Prograde", yes?

[4472TJ]

6 hours ago, Espatie said:

"Lock at current angle" is hard in some of the frames of reference though, surely?

 

"Lock at Current Angle with respect to Prograde" has a circle of possible solutions to it, only one of which is what you want.

 

What re-entry requires is (Correct me if I'm wrong) "Lock at current angle with respect to Radial on an arc which passes through Surface Prograde", yes?

I think your overcomplicating something very simple. The idea for this is to create a system where by it is your choice of lock position without Mechjeb or any mods being involved. For example, pointing a rocket at 45° relative to the horizon. You could press a button that locks your current position (45°) and like lock to Prograde it will keep you there at. 

Some people were mentioning uses: 

Aircraft horizontal flying 

Space plane re-entry 

Rocket launching

Making Space Stations keep a position to make them look cooler

Plus more I don't know about. I'm a new(ish) player so don't kill me for not mentioning something.

[Espatie]

I think you are oversimplifying something that's much more complicated than you realize.

Humans are very good at that leap of "of course" that computers need to have quite thoroughly defined in exact and precise terms.

[The Aziz]

No, that's exactly something you could do in game with one click, if means to do such thing were provided.

7 hours ago, Espatie said:

angle with respect to Radial on an arc which passes...

What? No, it's "lock at 40 degree above the horizon, aka on 40 on the blue part of navball in surface mode period"
And MJ can do that.

EDIT for confirmation, if someone would try not to believe me:

Edited January 13, 2019 by The Aziz

[Duck McFuddle]

That's already a thing... just push the symbols next to the navball.

Oh, and looking at the picture above... SAS has to be on.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Duck McFuddle

[Red Iron Crown]

5 hours ago, Duck McFuddle said:

That's already a thing... just push the symbols next to the navball.

Horizon relative SAS is not a thing in stock. 

5 hours ago, Duck McFuddle said:

Oh, and looking at the picture above... SAS has to be on.

Picture shows Mechjeb's Smartass being used in lieu of stock SAS. 

 

It would be very useful for planes to have a "maintain angle of attack" button for SAS. Would make long flights way less tedious. 

[StrandedonEarth]

It sounds like the best implementation of what is wanted here is to have a SAS mode selector, to toggle between “Hold Absolute” or “Hold Relative to Horizon” which would probably remove or grey out all the radial/normal/‘grade buttons. Or maybe a “Hold Relative to Horizon” button would be enough. 

[JadeOfMaar]

On 1/12/2019 at 3:40 PM, 4472TJ said:

The addition of lock position, ie. Lock to horizon or lock to current facing position would be a good idea. This would help in rocket launching and not wearing out our fingers pressing 'A' and 'D' to correct bearing. It would also help to make space stations look even cooler, as they would now stay locked to the horizon or locked to another position. The addition of time warping to stop spinning is great but, not any good for pointing in the right direction. I think that this tiny change could make a large impact on KSP in new ways much like 1.5 but more on the mechanical side of better visuals rather than just the looks.

For (most of) the first point, this tiny mod can meet your needs (it enables dynamic control point orientation) and will do so in timely fashion (how long it takes you to install it) vs waiting on Squad to deliver it. On the other hand you can and will come close by setting your craft (especially aircraft) to a given heading and tapping F. That makes SAS hold the new heading until you give another steering input. Also, get creative with spare elevons on aircraft and setting these spares to have no authority except for deploy amount. It'll be like having SAS and Trim enabled simultaneously.

I know everything that's wrong or insufficient with my suggestions. I merely took the liberty of throwing some tips... Also, I honestly would also like a "Hold Horizon" option in SAS.

Your next point is basically asking for stockified Persistent Rotation, also a tiny mod.

7 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

It would be very useful for planes to have a "maintain angle of attack" button for SAS. Would make long flights way less tedious. 

This. So much. ^ Sooo much.

20 hours ago, Espatie said:

"What re-entry requires is (Correct me if I'm wrong) "Lock at current angle with respect to Radial on an arc which passes through Surface Prograde", yes?

Steer the craft into the heading you want then tap on F. It makes SAS flicker and then attempt to hold the new heading until you give another steering input.

5 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

It sounds like the best implementation of what is wanted here is to have a SAS mode selector, to toggle between “Hold Absolute” or “Hold Relative to Horizon” which would probably remove or grey out all the radial/normal/‘grade buttons. Or maybe a “Hold Relative to Horizon” button would be enough. 

I'd much rather those buttons not be phased out. Who wants to do the required math and otherwise guess which way is which? Also, clicking on the actual "Surface" or "Orbit" text on the navball will make it switch modes. There's your "absolute" and "relative" toggle.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by JadeOfMaar

[The Aziz]

Wait wait wait

You're telling me that F is not just temporary SAS hold that appears under T?

I need to verify it on my own now

[4472TJ]

I had never heard of the hold position F key.

28 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Wait wait wait

You're telling me that F is not just temporary SAS hold that appears under T?

I need to verify it on my own now

Me too ^

But I think we can all agree adding a hold horizon button on SAS would be useful

[The Aziz]

Well I tried that and I'm not entirely sure if that's how it works. I mean, it kinda works on reentry, (although I set it to over 40 degree and at the end it was at no more than 30) but my guess it's because it wants to stay stable relative to that invisible point in space, so as it revolves around a planet it points higher and higher, as usual, but it has to fight the atmosphere, the drag etc, which pulls the nose down.
Confirmation:
a) KSP Wiki explicitly says that F button is to " Hold to temporarily invert SAS state " - as in, when it's on, it goes off as long you hold the button and the other way round.
b) I did it in orbit - set the direction (prograde), hit F and waited. Currently my ship is facing the ground, after 3/4 of full orbit.

[4472TJ]

I have tried the holding F key and for me it doesn't seem to work. A more simpler thing like a button(s) on the SAS list would make it more workable with, rather than having it so complex

[Psycho_zs]

Switching surface/universal rotation reference would be essential for any static hold (even plain stability assist). I can not imagine life without this feature of Persistent Rotation mod.

Also somewhat related:

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16117

and: