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Pawelk198604

Can the pilot refuse to board a drunken passenger? Does is true that American may import to their country alcohol only when they 21?

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Can the pilot refuse to board a drunken passenger? Does is true that American may import to their country alcohol only when they 21?


 am not an American, do not judge me, but in my opinion, these American recipes regarding the consumption of alcohol only from the age of 21 are too restrictive? In my country, Poland is 18 years old and despite the patches of alcoholics attached to us, we have the smallest percentage of alcoholism among all age groups in the whole European Union :-) 

But I did not want to write about it, I read the funny situation of an American student 19 years or so, from international exchange who was returning to the United States, but before the flight, he bought a bottle of our famous Polish vodka :)

When his briefing was approaching, he introduced our Polish vodka to the bottle of vodka, but the woman who served him told him that she could accept it, but he would have problems in the United States, because he only had him in the country people who are 21 may bring alcohol to the United States, that he can bring it but he could have problem apparently she quipped that "Ignorantia iuris nocet" xD 

It is said she told me that in the future let me send it as a parcel to USA by Poczta Polska (Polish Mail) or DHL if she has any alcohol because they more relax on it. 

She said that he would do better for him if he throws it up to the garbage bin because could have a problem if he brings it to his country, or drank that whole half litre of vodka, but it would bad idea :-) 

Unfortunately, that lad took this joke seriously and drank that vodka xD


o make a long story short he gets a little bit stoned, and cabin crew of our Polish national LOT AIRLINES refused to board it, I think it was actually pilot choice. 
I was a bit pitty for that boy after airlines like our LOT Airlines, British Airways, Lufthansa, Ryanair and so on selling alcohol on the plane, so why they have a problem with accepting passenger who drank a bit of alcohol, I think it's a bit of hypocrisy :(

 have always been interested in aviation, especially transport and passenger aviation, I read a lot about it. 
But I can not be a pilot myself because in my childhood I suffered from certain disease, I am 33 years old, I have no have any trace of it for 23 years!, but stupid Polish law prohibits people like me from making a pilot license, my friend said that there are regulations not only in Poland but practically everywhere :-( 

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I have no idea on the rules or rights of the parties involved, but:

1 hour ago, Pawelk198604 said:

Ryanair and so on selling alcohol on the plane, so why they have a problem with accepting passenger who drank a bit of alcohol, I think it's a bit of hypocrisy

I wouldn't really consider half a liter of hard alcohol "a bit." I seriously doubt they'd sell you that much.

that's 17 shots. I'm surprised he was walking.

Edited by 5thHorseman

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24 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I have no idea on the rules or rights of the parties involved, but:

I wouldn't really consider half a liter of hard alcohol "a bit." I seriously doubt they'd sell you that much.

 

But I wonder why Pilot could refuse to fly a passenger? 

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I don't know the specifics, or the exact wording of the law(s)... but this sounds about right. 

I was in Germany in the Army in 1980's, and encountered the same thing. German laws are much less restrictive than the States.

In fact, I enlisted when I was 17, and got out when I was 20... Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not a big drinker... truth be told, I'm a wimp. 2-3 and I'm snoring... lol... Anyway, the entire time in Germany I could if I wanted. But after I got out, and came back home, I had to wait about 6 months before I turned 21 and was "legal" again in the US.

I think it should ultimately be the captains decision. It's his plane, and his responsibility to keep everyone safe.
I mean, there should also be rules in place. But if it were me, and I were captain, I think it would depend on the individual. If someone was a "sleepy" drunk, and was just zonked out in their chair.... that's fine, let them sleep. But if someone is a "rowdy" drunk, so to speak, and is just getting obnoxious and stupid and looking like their going to be annoying the other passengers... nope, They're not boarding my space-plane.  

Edited by Just Jim

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6 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

I don't know the specifics, or the exact wording of the law(s)... but this sounds about right. 

I was in Germany in the Army in 1980's, and encountered the same thing. German laws are much less restrictive than the States.

In fact, I enlisted when I was 17, and got out when I was 20... Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not a big drinker... truth be told, I'm a wimp. 2-3 and I'm snoring... lol... Anyway, the entire time in Germany I could if I wanted. But after I got out, and came back home, I had to wait about 6 months before I turned 21 and was "legal" again in the US.

I think it should ultimately be the captains decision. It's his plane, and his responsibility to keep everyone safe.
I mean, there should also be rules in place. But if it were me, and I were captain, I think it would depend on the individual. If someone was a "sleepy" drunk, and was just zonked out in their chair.... that's fine, let them sleep. But if someone is a "rowdy" drunk, so to speak, and is just getting obnoxious and stupid and looking like their going to be annoying the other passengers... nope, They're not boarding my space-plane.  

Hehe :D 

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7 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

I don't know the specifics, or the exact wording of the law(s)... but this sounds about right. 

I was in Germany in the Army in 1980's, and encountered the same thing. German laws are much less restrictive than the States.

In fact, I enlisted when I was 17, and got out when I was 20... Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not a big drinker... truth be told, I'm a wimp. 2-3 and I'm snoring... lol... Anyway, the entire time in Germany I could if I wanted. But after I got out, and came back home, I had to wait about 6 months before I turned 21 and was "legal" again in the US.

I think it should ultimately be the captains decision. It's his plane, and his responsibility to keep everyone safe.
I mean, there should also be rules in place. But if it were me, and I were captain, I think it would depend on the individual. If someone was a "sleepy" drunk, and was just zonked out in their chair.... that's fine, let them sleep. But if someone is a "rowdy" drunk, so to speak, and is just getting obnoxious and stupid and looking like their going to be annoying the other passengers... nope, They're not boarding my space-plane.  

I do not drink alcohol at all, I have great respect for the United States and Americans as such, I met some of your countrymen and I have to admit that you are really nice people, but your alcohol regulations are a bit stupid.
Because, as far as I know, this adulthood is the same as in Poland, 18 years old, but someone needs to be 21 to buy alcohol.
This is strange because either we recognize that someone is adult or not, and you have a bit like in the case of a schrödinger cat, which is half life, half dead :D  

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14 minutes ago, Pawelk198604 said:

but your alcohol regulations are a bit stupid.

:D

Oh, no argument here. A lot of our regulations are incredibly stupid... lol....

This is slightly off-topic, but a perfect illustration.... you're gonna love this, it a classic example.

Pepperoni Pizza.

In the USA, a standard store-bought frozen cheese pizza needs to be approved by the FDA. Fairly straight-forward,

However, when you add pepperoni, the pizza now suddenly falls under the USDA, a completely different department of the government. Just by adding pepperoni... 

Waaa??????  :confused:

Edited by Just Jim

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Yes, on a commercial flight, the crew can refuse to let any passenger on board or even have them leave the plane if they think they are a potential risk for the flight. This is the crews responsibility to guarantee safety. They will even land out of schedule and have an unruly passenger guided out by security. Plus there are other nasty side effects like being charged for the extra cost and so on. It happens from time to time, after football matches or on the flight home from certain cheap mass tourism places etc. ...

Better stay with tomato juice and tabasco until the flight is over ;-)

 

Edited by Green Baron

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1 hour ago, Green Baron said:

Yes, on a commercial flight, the crew can refuse to let any passenger on board or even have them leave the plane if they think they are a potential risk for the flight. This is the crews responsibility to guarantee safety. They will even land out of schedule and have an unruly passenger guided out by security. Plus there are other nasty side effects like being charged for the extra cost and so on. It happens from time to time, after football matches or on the flight home from certain cheap mass tourism places etc. ...

Better stay with tomato juice and tabasco until the flight is over ;-)

 

LOL :D 

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i remember one time i flew through seattle i had some spare scratch and a two hour wait for my connection. so i went to the airport bar. needless to say by the time boarding came i was drunk as a skunk. of course i usually dont cause a ruckus when drunk so i just snoozed the whole flight. i dont think anyone noticed. 

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3 hours ago, Just Jim said:

In fact, I enlisted when I was 17, and got out when I was 20... Now, don't misunderstand, I'm not a big drinker... truth be told, I'm a wimp. 2-3 and I'm snoring... lol... Anyway, the entire time in Germany I could if I wanted. But after I got out, and came back home, I had to wait about 6 months before I turned 21 and was "legal" again in the US.

Here in NJ, the drinking age (ability to purchase alcohol) was lowered to 18 in 1973.  Part of the argument for doing so was that young men were old enough to be sent off to war (Viet Nam), but were not allowed to buy alcohol.  It was raised to 19 in 1980, in argument over insurance premiums and the rise in auto accidents from drunk drivers.  In 1984, the National Minimum Drinking Age Act changed all of that and brought the age limit back up to 21.

And now, some lawmakers are once again talking about lowering it back to 18... using the same argument as 1973.

Purchasing alcohol is one thing... age restrictions for consumption of alcohol vary by state.

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4 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

Can the pilot refuse to board a drunken passenger?

Theoretically, it is not only that they can, but the pilot(s) MUST refuse to this passenger to board.

The consumption of alcoholic beverage by passengers can be allowed on carriers and private flights, as long as it does not call into question the safety of the occupants. The danger is not only due to the excessive violence that the subject could show, but also to the "in-cabin" altitude, whether your plane is pressurized or not: the effect of alcohol will always be more intense than at the surface level, whether you're a drinking record-man or not.

In the case of G.A. in the U.S., the 14 CFR 91.17 is clear about it (it's also the same rule for the EASA):

Alcohol or Drugs (b) Except in an emergency, no pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a person who appears to be intoxicated or who demonstrates by manner or physical indications that the individual is under the influence of drugs (except a medical patient under proper care) to be carried in that aircraft.

Good luck to find the aforementioned "emergency", since the transport of an intoxicated subject will only aggravate its condition.

Edited by XB-70A

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6 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

I was just too lazy to search for the paragraphs in the regulations :-)

Lul! I'll be honest... I've been quietly doing nothing on my computer for two hours, and the old book I bought years ago for the Commercial Pilot License was at hand :lol:

Edited by XB-70A

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Noticeable inebriation can be considered a breach of contract with the airline, giving it grounds to bar you from boarding and throw a full refund at you. Aeroflot, for example, requires you to "unquestionably obey" the instructions of the crew and "maintain discipline and order"; they reserve the right to confiscate any booze you bring onboard, and warn of additional consequences: removal from onboard at earliest convenience, a lawsuit for any emergency landings, tall fines or even jailtime (Administrative Code Article 11.17 "Disobedience of flight commander", Criminal Code Article 213 section 1.v "Hooliganism onboard public transport", up to five years, and Article 267.1 "Actions endangering safety of aircraft operation"), and, quite deliciously, "maximum possible publicity of the incident in mass media". And this July Aeroflot has successfully lobbied for amendments to the Air Code giving it the right to deny all service to previously prosecuted passengers for a year.

Conversely, at the time Aeroflot reported 12 incidents "last year", of which 10 got physical and 2 reached "endangering safety" levels; its lowcoster arm Pobeda reported another 30... although Pobeda's ruthless avarice would probably drive me up the wall too (paid online registration, no free hand luggage, and - potentially - paying for Styrofoam cups; TBH they exist to make people fly Aeroflot instead).

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7 hours ago, XB-70A said:

Theoretically, it is not only that they can, but the pilot(s) MUST refuse to this passenger to board.

The consumption of alcoholic beverage by passengers can be allowed on carriers and private flights, as long as it does not call into question the safety of the occupants. The danger is not only due to the excessive violence that the subject could show, but also to the "in-cabin" altitude, whether your plane is pressurized or not: the effect of alcohol will always be more intense than at the surface level, whether you're a drinking record-man or not.

In the case of G.A. in the U.S., the 14 CFR 91.17 is clear about it (it's also the same rule for the EASA):

Alcohol or Drugs (b) Except in an emergency, no pilot of a civil aircraft may allow a person who appears to be intoxicated or who demonstrates by manner or physical indications that the individual is under the influence of drugs (except a medical patient under proper care) to be carried in that aircraft.

Good luck to find the aforementioned "emergency", since the transport of an intoxicated subject will only aggravate its condition.

This student was  bottles of vodka, so he drank the contents at the airport, because of his greed, he had to wait for the next flight :D 

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13 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

these American recipes regarding the consumption of alcohol only from the age of 21 are too restrictive?

Oh, you haven't been in mine.

13 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

I was a bit pitty for that boy after airlines like our LOT Airlines, British Airways, Lufthansa, Ryanair and so on selling alcohol on the plane, so why they have a problem with accepting passenger who drank a bit of alcohol, I think it's a bit of hypocrisy

They have the rights not to sell alcohol to you too.

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18 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I wouldn't really consider half a liter of hard alcohol "a bit." I seriously doubt they'd sell you that much.

that's 17 shots. I'm surprised he was walking.

Maybe he had the 2rd phase of alcoholism (can drink like water and stay intact).

14 hours ago, XB-70A said:

a person ...under the influence of drugs... to be carried in that aircraft.

If he is so drunken that they need to carry him instead of walking on his own, he is mostly safe (though smelly).

P.S.
Imho, they should first ensure that he has digested the drunken vodka and not let it back,
Unless it looks like an alcohol trafficking. What if he'll spit it back on arrival and sell?

Edited by kerbiloid

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On 1/14/2019 at 2:25 AM, Pawelk198604 said:

This student was  bottles of vodka, so he drank the contents at the airport, because of his greed, he had to wait for the next flight :D 

Was that student my father?

Because my father once sent an entire bottle of whiskey down the toilet in front of a very disappointed TSA guy.

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Yep, the drinking age here in the U.S. is 21. Which, considering our history and usual policy towards mind-altering substances, is rather sedate. The importation, production and consumption of alcohol was banned by constitutional amendment for 14 years (1919 to 1933).

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Relevant to this thread.

Minutes ago an FSB strike team dragged a, quote, “VERY drunk” passenger off an Aeroflot flight after he tried to reroute it to Afghanistan while brandishing... something vaguely pistol-shaped.

Edit: video - https://www.rbc.ru/rbcfreenews/5c4720af9a79471b37b32db4 - and yes, the whole plane clapped, just like bad internet stories

Do you see why booze doesn’t fly?

Edited by DDE

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2 hours ago, DDE said:

Do you see why booze doesn’t fly?

Because somebody should land the plane if the pilot is drunken, too.

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Yes, the legal age of drinking here is 21. The problem is not a lot of people have enough self control to drink responsibly even past that, at least in America. As far as I know, the regulations are supposed to prevent liver damage, the thought process being "you are fully grown at 26 so we'll let you start drinking at 21, it's close enough for pro alchohol people and anti alchohol people" but I'm not sure. 

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It’s been exactly a week, and we’ve got another case against alcohol onboard. FV5863 has had an emergency landing in Sochi. This time, our chivalrous enebriated hero clobbered a stewardess.

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