Thomas P.

[1.7.3-2 + Backports] Kopernicus & KittopiaTech

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18 hours ago, Norcalplanner said:

tr6W96u.jpg

;)

Hah. Funny. I've been running KSP since 0.19 so … Yeah, not a noob here. 

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10 minutes ago, LameLefty said:

Hah. Funny. I've been running KSP since 0.19 so … Yeah, not a noob here. 

I came on board at 0.23.5 myself. Please accept my apologies if this was offensive - it just seemed to be as good a spot as any for the meme post. :-)

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25 minutes ago, Norcalplanner said:

I came on board at 0.23.5 myself. Please accept my apologies if this was offensive - it just seemed to be as good a spot as any for the meme post. :-)

No worries. :)

Trust me, though. I'm well aware of the havoc that can come from updating my game with version changes. I've backed up my Saves folder, of course. But in any case, the heck of it is, despite the swarm of AVC-generated warnings, most of those mods at least seem to work. Heck, even Scatterer + EVE still work, which rather astonishes me honestly. I don't quite know what's going on with the Kopernicus version-check though. I see someone else reported the issue with the same warning from MJ2 and Sarbian's already issued a point-update to correct it. 

But the KSP warning doesn't say the game isn't loading the mod, just that it might not work as expected so presumably it would load anyway. But something was not quite right; Jool's rings were gone. 

Anyway though, I have apparently solved the issue. I deleted the Kopernicus and ModuleFlightIntegrator folders from my GameData folder and reinstalled them, then dug around in the SVT folder. I found an AVC version file that gave a max KSP version as 1.4.2.  Heh. I don't remember if AVC added that or if it came with the mod by default when I installed it forever ago. I don't believe the version check affects mod loading or usage in-game, but I went ahead and changed that to 1.5.0 just in case. 

Voila.

IjhzOPJ.jpg

Edited by LameLefty

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4 hours ago, x2BruceWillis4x said:

Hello guys! First time poster here! Mine unfortunately is doing the exact same thing stated above. Validated Kerbal install with steam. Found two missing files. Didn't help. Pretty sure that was just an error on my end. Uninstalled all mods and reinstalled with no luck. Link to screenshot and logs below; please let me know if you can access them or not. Thank you guys in advance!

I also forgot to mention that after I click okay on the message and then click settings the game just loads. I have to manually close out of game. The loading animation just keeps rolling in the bottom right.

Added all files the pop-up message asked me to submit:

Kerbal Errors

Welcome to the forums.

Your AVP mod is listed as compatible with KSP v1.4.5, not 1.5.

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Thanks for the reply. Does this mean there's no fix until the mod is compatible? I also used CKAN to install all mods.

Edited by x2BruceWillis4x
Spell check of course...

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32 minutes ago, x2BruceWillis4x said:

Thanks for the reply. Does this mean there's no fix until the mod is compatible? I also used CKAN to install all mods.

No, not at all.  Updates are coming out from the mod devs very quickly.  Be patient.

If you have to play KSP 1.5, then you are probably going to have to wait until AVP is updated since AVP depends on Kopernicus, and Kopernicus is version locked, i.e. it will not run on any KSP version for which it is not compiled.

If you want to keep playing, rename your KSP v1.5 directory to save it, re-download KSP v1.4.5 from Steam and use CKAN to install only v1.4.5 mods.  That's the brief answer and we can discuss in greater detail if you need more help.

My recommendation is to not play KSP from the original Steam directory.  Instead, keep that folder clean (of mods, screenshots and saves thus keeping the size low) and duplicate it as many times and you need to play your different game(s), i.e. different KSP versions or mod collections.  This avoids Steam updating your 'live' game unexpectedly, and potentially ruining your save and certainly saving you time and effort.

Finally, keep this topic handy for the next time you run into problems (and you will :D). How To Get Support (READ FIRST) - Technical Support (PC, modded installs) - Kerbal Space Program Forums

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So just futzing with the idea of making Kerbin from a different world's template. Doesn't seem to be working as expected; am getting "PSystemSetup: Cannot find PQS of name 'Kerbin'!"

I submitted issue #319 a moment ago. It was simpler to paste a zip file to GitHub. I'm hoping it's just me making a stupid mistake.

[Update] StollD provided an important clue and I was able to resolve issue #319. The key seems to be, don't delete Body[Kerbin] and instead edit it to use a different template. This keeps Kerbin where it is in the order of bodies, and it keeps needed bits even if the template is something else.

Edited by Gordon Fecyk

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Well,  frak. Tonight's 1.5.1 hotfix appears to have broken Kopernicus. I really wish the new Take 2 version of "Squad" would have improved this delightful and historical KSP "feature" of needing a bunch of quick mod-breaking point-fixes immediately after every. Single. Release. 

Edited by LameLefty

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4 hours ago, LameLefty said:

Well,  frak. Tonight's 1.5.1 hotfix appears to have broken Kopernicus. I really wish the new Take 2 version of "Squad" would have improved this delightful and historical KSP "feature" of needing a bunch of quick mod-breaking point-fixes immediately after every. Single. Release. 

In the case of Kopernicus,  it's because the mod is deliberately version locked, i.e. the mod refuses to run on any KSP version other than exactly the one it's built for.

That's a design decision made by the Kopernicus author, for various good reasons I won't go into, here.  The point,  though, is that it's not Squad's responsibility.  It's just a Kopernicus design choice.

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1 hour ago, Snark said:

In the case of Kopernicus,  it's because the mod is deliberately version locked, i.e. the mod refuses to run on any KSP version other than exactly the one it's built for.

That's a design decision made by the Kopernicus author, for various good reasons I won't go into, here.  The point,  though, is that it's not Squad's responsibility.  It's just a Kopernicus design choice.

Is there a way to bypass that restriction? 1.5.1 is only a hotfix so there should be no problem, right?

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46 minutes ago, lork said:

Is there a way to bypass that restriction? 1.5.1 is only a hotfix so there should be no problem, right?

That question has been answered in this thread a couple of times.  Search for it and I think you'll find your answer.  Basically, no, and why would you want to?

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3 hours ago, Brigadier said:

That question has been answered in this thread a couple of times.  Search for it and I think you'll find your answer.  Basically, no, and why would you want to?

Because 1.5.0 worked fine for them,  there’s no method to roll KSP back,, and they’d like Kopernicus in their game. Absent that, ... Yeah. That’s why someone would want to bypass the version lock.

Jeez, folks. That kind of condescending reply is not helpful or warranted. A simple, “No, sorry.” is all that’s required. 

6 hours ago, Snark said:

In the case of Kopernicus,  it's because the mod is deliberately version locked, i.e. the mod refuses to run on any KSP version other than exactly the one it's built for.

That's a design decision made by the Kopernicus author, for various good reasons I won't go into, here.  The point,  though, is that it's not Squad's responsibility.  It's just a Kopernicus design choice.

I understand that and if you read my post, it’s not really aimed at anything except the fact that after every release for past couple years, there has been a slew of point release hotfixes. Some of us hoped that with Take 2’s resources, Squad would be able to cover pre-release testing and regression checks more thoroughly than could a little indie studio and thus avoid some of that past practice. 

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Are the Kopernicus devs going to wait to patch until the next hotfix- assuming that's coming soon- or can we expect to be able to use it for 1.5.1 here pretty soon? I'm anxious to start my new 1.5 GPP career save and Steam's not letting me roll back to 1.5.0. Short of being patient, what are we looking at here timewise?

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If my original reply was perceived as condescending, I apologize to @lork.  I intended it as a simple statement that the information is already available and asked a question, not passed a judgement.

4 hours ago, LameLefty said:

Because 1.5.0 worked fine for them,  there’s no method to roll KSP back

If KSP is downloaded from Steam, there certainly is a way to roll back.  And clearly, 1.5 isn't working for them the way they want otherwise they wouldn't be asking to circumvent the version lock after being informed by a Moderator that there are good reasons why it is this way.

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18 minutes ago, Brigadier said:

If my original reply was perceived as condescending, I apologize to @lork.  I intended it as a simple statement that the information is already available and asked a question, not passed a judgement.

If KSP is downloaded from Steam, there certainly is a way to roll back.  And clearly, 1.5 isn't working for them the way they want otherwise they wouldn't be asking to circumvent the version lock after being informed by a Moderator that there are good reasons why it is this way.

So far as I can tell from Steam (which I’ve been using since 2004 btw) the Betas tab only allows rolling back to whatever the game developers have set up Steam to allow. And in my case at least, I can roll back to several point releases (1.2.whatever, 1.3.whatever, etc) but I have no option to go back to the original 1.5.0 release. *shrug*

In any case, it’s not a major deal if you’ve backed up your installation folder (which I used to do in the days when KSP crashed routinely) but I didn’t do it this time myself. Perhaps a useful reminder to do so in the future again. 

 

Edited by LameLefty

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Just now, LameLefty said:

So far as I can tell from Steam (which I’ve been using since 2004c btw) the Betas tab only allows rolling back to whatever the game developers have set up Steam to allow. And in my case at least, I can roll back to several point releases (1.2.whatever, 1.3.whatever, etc) but I have no option to go back to the original 1.5.0 release. *shrug*

In any case, it’s not a major deal if you’ve backed up your installation folder (which I used to do in the days when KSP crashed routinely) but I didn’t do it this time myself. Perhaps a useful reminder to do so in the future again. 

 

This is one of the most annoying things about Steam and KSP and the modding community- They have different ideas as to exactly what counts as an important release. Seriously, is there any harm in providing us with more betas?

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For the record, it's an easy fix for anyone capable of recompiling the plugin from source. In CompatibilityChecker.cs, replace this:

#if !DEBUG
            return
                Versioning.version_major == version_major &&
                Versioning.version_minor == version_minor &&
                Versioning.Revision == Revision;
#else
            return true;
#endif

with this:

#if !DEBUG
            return true;
#else
            return true;
#endif

This should kill this brain-damaged checker for good. It's the same crock that did 64bit lockouts, so if anyone's willing to get a bit more involved, the old 64bit unfixer could probably be adapted to deal with this (won't work out of the box, though). I mostly use Kopernicus for eye-candy (SVT), so I'm not going to go through the trouble myself, but should anyone come up with a solution, I can help testing. This thing was bogus back when it was introduced, and with the new release model (and general stabilization of KSP codebase) it simply needs to die.

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Would y'all at least gracefully allow me to sleep one night after a day of university before I have to make a release instantly after a KSP update releasing, before you turn the thread and my mailbox into a firestorm? Thank you.

marks snarky reply as done, now to some serious answers

4 hours ago, darwinpatrick said:

Are the Kopernicus devs going to wait to patch until the next hotfix- assuming that's coming soon- or can we expect to be able to use it for 1.5.1 here pretty soon? I'm anxious to start my new 1.5 GPP career save and Steam's not letting me roll back to 1.5.0. Short of being patient, what are we looking at here timewise?

Kopernicus is going to update to 1.5.1, unless Squad releases 1.5.2 instantly after me writing this message.

 

1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

For the record, it's an easy fix for anyone capable of recompiling the plugin from source. In CompatibilityChecker.cs, replace this:


#if !DEBUG
            return
                Versioning.version_major == version_major &&
                Versioning.version_minor == version_minor &&
                Versioning.Revision == Revision;
#else
            return true;
#endif

with this:


#if !DEBUG
            return true;
#else
            return true;
#endif

This should kill this brain-damaged checker for good. It's the same crock that did 64bit lockouts, so if anyone's willing to get a bit more involved, the old 64bit unfixer could probably be adapted to deal with this (won't work out of the box, though). I mostly use Kopernicus for eye-candy (SVT), so I'm not going to go through the trouble myself, but should anyone come up with a solution, I can help testing. This thing was bogus back when it was introduced, and with the new release model (and general stabilization of KSP codebase) it simply needs to die.

  • That "brain-damaged checker" has prevented lots of people from blindly loading their saves just to discover that Kopernicus failed to load and everything that orbited a custom body was gone, or stuck inside of a hill due to terrain incompatiblities, and and and
  • That "brain-damaged checker" has prevented me from lots of stress and headaches because of having to rush out updates because the old version breaks other peoples installs, or reading the posts of people (rightfully) accusing me of causing their hard work getting deleted after an (potentially automatic) ksp release
  • That "brain-damaged checker" has motivated me to test and rebuild Kopernicus on new KSP versions and not leaving it in health support for multiple releases
  • That "brain-damaged checker" has allowed me to read some funny email threads on my phone while in school when Squad released an update overnight. that "brain-damaged checker" made it possible that I can still joke about that (see above)

For more reasons about why the checker exists and it won't go for the foreseeable future, check out this GitHub comment: https://github.com/Kopernicus/Kopernicus/issues/299#issuecomment-406890108

And to be clear, I am not going to give support for any version that has been version-unlocked. If someone publishes such a tool, they agree that I send everyone who plays on a version that can be unlocked to them for support. If you think that I have fun doing updates and version locking Kopernicus, you are completely wrong. I hate doing it. I really do. If the world was an ideal one I would just autocompile every commit on the github and people could go nuts with that, but thats not how it works. I tried doing releases without the version lock, and bad things happened. Version-locking and explicit release upgrades are the system that works for me. If it was for me I would have stayed on 1.3.1 forever (and I really considered that as an option when all that EULA/Analytics crap happened before 1.4). But I fear that me staying on one version will cause someone else forking (which is not bad at all!) Kopernicus, which could add incompatibilities to the already existing chaos of planet modding (see: my example from the github comment above). Instead I am doing backports, which adds even more time to the pile because you have to check if they compile against their respective KSP version at all, and if not rewrite the code or add switches that disable those parts. (I realize that I am not always good at testing the backports on their KSP versions though, which is why have been a bit buggy in the past)

TL;DR:

  • I don't have fun creating release updates for Kopernicus. But I understand why people want it so badly that my mailbox regulary explodes and moves every mail from the forum to the spam folder.
  • I don't have much time to do release upgrades. But I will take the time as soon as I notice an update has been released.
  • I don't notice release updates instantly. They either release at night when I sleep or at midday when I am at school / university. So give me some time to realize that Kopernicus needs an update
  • I don't know that Squad doesn't allow you to downgrade to 1.5.0, therefore I don't know that an updated Kopernicus is probably even more urgent to you.
  • So just show some patience and give me 2 or 3 days to update my build stuff, test Kopernicus a bit if I think it might fail, and then publish the release (or rather the 4 releases if you count both backports and Kittopia (which is btw. the perfect example of me leaving a mod in limbo and letting it decay until nothing works anymore))

You usually wait weeks or months (or a year for good old 1.1) for KSP updates, with weekly teasers. Just do the same for the 2 or 3 days it takes me to push out a proper release.

(I bet I forgot a thing I wanted to say because of that wall of text, oh wait I wanted to stay serious. Dammit.)

53 minutes ago, Electrocutor said:

@Thomas P. What layer(s) does Kopernicus render to? I see very little on 9, 10, and 15 which the base game has most everything on.

KSP (and by extension Kopernicus) use 9 (Atmosphere), 10 (Scaled Space) and 15 (Local Space - Terrain) for planets yes. Kopernicus doesn't do much of the rendering assignment itself, in fact it just uses the instanced Stock prefabs wherever possible, and otherwise applies the same settings Squad would apply.

Edited by Thomas P.

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3 hours ago, darwinpatrick said:

This is one of the most annoying things about Steam and KSP and the modding community- They have different ideas as to exactly what counts as an important release. Seriously, is there any harm in providing us with more betas?

 Seriously, is there any harm in waiting A-day or 2 or maybe a few more for a modder, who does this for free, to get out an update?

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1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

This should kill this brain-damaged checker for good. 

Then I fully expect you (or whoever decides to recompile and share) to answer to any bug reports or game breaking issues on every planet pack or any mod that needs Kopernicus, as I and many others will tell anyone using an unofficial version to kick rocks. 

@Thomas P. I really wish you would have stayed on 1.3.1 too... with each KSP update, the sense of entitlement grows. Most people understand, and wait, but there is always a handful, that don’t contribute whatsoever to the community, that feel they know what’s best for Kopernicus.

Edited by Galileo

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1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

For the record, it's an easy fix for anyone capable of recompiling the plugin from source. In CompatibilityChecker.cs, replace this:

I spent a while thinking about this before replying.  For the record, my initial thought was to write a whole lot of expletive-deleted aimed at you, for just about the stupidest suggestion I have ever heard of in these forums

I support, among other mods, Editor Extensions Redux, and last year, someone did the exact same thing you mentioned here.  My code has lots of comments as to why it should not be done, and what had to be done before a version was unlocked.  My thread ended up filled with people complaining that the version he posted wasn't working etc, to the point where I had to have the moderators clean out the thread.

And, Kopernicus is tremendously more complicated than EEX. 

For the record, you should edit your posting and delete those comments because you are causing nothing but trouble.

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Thank you guys- Thomas P. especially- for your replies. I understand completely. The work you do means a lot to us, and I'm sorry that I pressured you. I think I'm going to go be patient and take a walk.

Have a great day!

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For the record, this is a canned routine copied off the forum (if you look at the aforementioned file, there's an URL to the thread), not a bespoke, integral job. During the 64bit debacle batch utilities were written to more or less do the same thing a bit lower in the code. Removing this check should not affect anything else, aside from allowing it to load on a version that's actually incompatible, which goes without saying. Also, anyone capable of compiling from source should know that such hack jobs won't get any support.

53 minutes ago, Thomas P. said:
  • That "brain-damaged checker" has prevented lots of people from blindly loading their saves just to discover that Kopernicus failed to load and everything that orbited a custom body was gone, or stuck inside of a hill due to terrain incompatiblities, and and and
  • That "brain-damaged checker" has prevented me from lots of stress and headaches because of having to rush out updates because the old version breaks other peoples installs, or reading the posts of people (rightfully) accusing me of causing their hard work getting deleted after an (potentially automatic) ksp release

And how exactly is it better than MiniAVC at doing this? This routine doesn't actually prevent neither KSP nor specific saves from loading, so if the message is ignored (and it isn't any harder than dismissing one from MiniAVC), trouble is going to ensue anyway. It does only one thing MiniAVC doesn't, and that thing seems to be mostly good for generating angry messages on the forum.

Now, if it checked compatibility, then it would be good. It doesn't. It compares version numbers and barfs if there's a mismatch, without any regard for actual compatibility or lack thereof. This is a problem for every mod ever that had this crock slapped into it. 

Oh, and unfortunately, most Steam users don't get to wait 2-3 days before installing the latest patch, thanks to an automatic update system about as flexible as Majorjim's version checker.

Edited by Dragon01

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