Thomas P.

[1.7.3-2 + Backports] Kopernicus & KittopiaTech

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

To be honest I was expecting the update to go along the BG DLC to be 1.8...  It might be that there could be a 1.8 update in a few weeks and thus, Thomas P. prediction could still come true and not as a joke. 

1.8 will stick to the 3 month update cycle so we can expect it in July.

Anyway, if you read carefully, (most of) your questions are already answered: 

On 5/10/2019 at 9:08 PM, Thomas P. said:

The next Kopernicus update will completely kill any plugin that depends on it (this means mods who interact with Kopernicus through anything except the config interface).

Most plant packs uses the config interface and a few also Sigma Dimensions to rescale the planets. The config interface is not affected but Sigma Dimensions will be. OPM and Extrasolar uses just the config interface and will be fine.

1 hour ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

solar sails, RTGs, drills ISRUs, breathing engines, etc?

I'm not aware of any parts mod which requires Kopernicus so no need to worry about it.

1 hour ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

solar panels

That's actually a good question since Kopernicus adds his own module for solar panels but still, I'm not too worried about it.

1 hour ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

JNSQ planet pack.

Also a good question since JNSQ includes a "SigmaRandomPlugin.dll" which appears to be a partmodule for parachutes but I cannot find a source code for it so I have no idea if it does some other stuff as well.

In general, if any mod requires Kopernicus + another .dll you should check if this other .dll actually depends on Kopernicus. If the answer is yes, you have to worry about it, if not, you're good to go ;)

Oh, and just in case I misunderstood @Thomas P. totally wrong, please correct me :)

Edited by 4x4cheesecake

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42 minutes ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

1.8 will stick to the 3 month update cycle so we can expect it in July.

Well, they havent hit a proper 3 month mark on the cycle, *yet*... :P
But discussion on that, is out of scope for this thread ;)

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3 hours ago, 4x4cheesecake said:

1.8 will stick to the 3 month update cycle so we can expect it in July.

Anyway, if you read carefully, (most of) your questions are already answered: 

Most plant packs uses the config interface and a few also Sigma Dimensions to rescale the planets. The config interface is not affected but Sigma Dimensions will be. OPM and Extrasolar uses just the config interface and will be fine.

I'm not aware of any parts mod which requires Kopernicus so no need to worry about it.

That's actually a good question since Kopernicus adds his own module for solar panels but still, I'm not too worried about it.

Also a good question since JNSQ includes a "SigmaRandomPlugin.dll" which appears to be a partmodule for parachutes but I cannot find a source code for it so I have no idea if it does some other stuff as well.

In general, if any mod requires Kopernicus + another .dll you should check if this other .dll actually depends on Kopernicus. If the answer is yes, you have to worry about it, if not, you're good to go ;)

Oh, and just in case I misunderstood @Thomas P. totally wrong, please correct me :)

Giung towards a more simple code can only do good on the long run, it'll make the mod run more smoothly and have less bugs overall.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

wonder if the planet pack modders will add features similar to Breaking Ground surface features for their own planets though. That would be quite detrimental if they didn't since stock planets would still be more interesting to visit than moded ones

 

Some of us are working on this already, not just me!

(Custom terrain features already exist in planet mods, I just demonstrate this with a tree)

Edited by Gameslinx

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Why all the squad hate? Your work is good, but that doesn't make you better than them.

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Is there a way to disable terrain noise in specific areas without "flatten area"?

Is there a way to restrict surface scatters to specific biomes... I only recall the ability to specify lat, long, and altitude limits for the scatters

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20 hours ago, Quoniam Kerman said:

I wonder if the planet pack modders will add features similar to Breaking Ground surface features for their own planets though. That would be quite detrimental if they didn't since stock planets would still be more interesting to visit than moded ones.

Well, I will add geyser's to my planet Rald (at least in the volcano biomes, maybe the Karsis plateau as well), and Bergs to the poles. Maybe some cryovolcanoes under the ocean as pseudo black smokers.

I haven't seen pics of some eve formations (like basalt formations), but I may add some of those. I don't think we'll need Kopernicus... I'm already able to add geysers to Kerbin, see here:

 

 

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So wait, what exactly does this do (or not do) in 1.7.1 that's so terrible? 

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33 minutes ago, RocketSquid said:

So wait, what exactly does this do (or not do) in 1.7.1 that's so terrible? 

It does not work at all. Certain mods like OPM, Extrasolar, JNSQ, etc require it, which means those mods do not work with 1.7.1 for now.

The next Kopernicus update features large refactors and other changes which means that some of the aforementioned mods will have to be updated before they can work with the new Kopernicus and 1.7.1.

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35 minutes ago, RocketSquid said:

So wait, what exactly does this do (or not do) in 1.7.1 that's so terrible? 

Kopernicus is version-locked, probably to avoid people discovering too exotic ways to break it by running it in unexpected contexts. It hasn't been updated for 1.7.1 yet, which isn't surprising given it's been not even been a full week. People are throwing fits that it doesn't work in 1.7.1, which is as intended.
Personally, I'm fine with this. Things will turn out fine.

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1 minute ago, VenDei said:

Kopernicus is version-locked, probably to avoid people discovering too exotic ways to break it by running it in unexpected contexts. It hasn't been updated for 1.7.1 yet, which isn't surprising given it's been not even been a full week. People are throwing fits that it doesn't work in 1.7.1, which is as intended.
Personally, I'm fine with this. Things will turn out fine.

Oh, if it’s just not doing anything that’s fine, I’m not going to any of the modded planets anytime soon.

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Posted (edited)

ignore me

Edited by Lucius
wrong thread

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The most painful thing is waiting ...
But i can practice in robotics! I hope I can make the enslaver bot, invader of Plock

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RocketSquid said:

Oh, if it’s just not doing anything that’s fine, I’m not going to any of the modded planets anytime soon.

You'll probably run into other errors anyway if you run it in the wrong version,  even if you stay in the Kerbin system, like null reference exceptions in orbit that slow your game to a crawl.

And you'd have to put up with a parade of Nyan cats every time the game is loading... That alone would be a deal breaker for me. 

Edited by UnanimousCoward
Typo/clarity

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34 minutes ago, UnanimousCoward said:

You'll probably run into other errors anyway if you run it in the wrong version,  even if you stay in the Kerbin system, like null reference exceptions in orbit that slow your game to a crawl.

And you'd have to put up with a parade of Nyan cats every time the game is loading... That alone would be a deal breaker for me. 

Neither of those things has happened; Kopernicus just says "Nope, wrong version, not gonna run" on the loading screen and so far it's been just fine in-game.

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17 minutes ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

Why does kopernicus not work with 1.7.1 if the release says it does

Read the subject line of this thread more closely: it works in 1.7.0, not in 1.7.1.

 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, LameLefty said:
49 minutes ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

Why does kopernicus not work with 1.7.1 if the release says it does

Read the subject line of this thread more closely: it works in 1.7.0, not in 1.7.1.

The numbering is a little confusing. The "-1" means it's the first version of the release for game version 1.7.0. I know it kind of looks like it's saying it works with 1.7.0 [through] .1, but that's not what the hyphen means. If there was an update to the 1.7.0-1 release it would be numbered 1.7.0-2   

You're looking for 1.7.1-1  when it comes out  :) 

Edited by Tyko

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Folks, let's take it down a notch, please.  Some content has been removed due to being off-topic and/or breaking forum rule 2.2.p about pressuring content creators for updates.

Please remember that the only reason Kopernicus is even here is due to @Thomas P. & co putting in many, many thankless hours of unpaid volunteer work in order to provide the entire KSP community with shiny toys for free.  Kopernicus is hugely valuable to the community-- so much so that it has become the de facto standard for essentially all planet packs these days.  It's ubiquitous.

Unfortunately, its very ubiquity leads some people to take it for granted, as if they're somehow entitled to it.  This is not the case.  The maintainers of Kopernicus give the results of their work freely to the community, requiring nothing in return.  Naturally, they therefore don't owe you anything.  You, however, owe them a debt of gratitude if you've ever used any Kopernicus-based planet pack, since you're enjoying the fruits of their labors.

They've been doing this for years, and they've been doing a good job.  If they weren't, and Kopernicus were a shoddy product, then mod makers would vote with their feet and go to some other planet platform, leaving Kopernicus to wither and fade as other such platforms have done in the past.  That hasn't happened, which says something about Kopernicus.

And Kopernicus has a version lock, for excellent reasons.  It's here, and it will stay, until such time as Thomas & co. think that it's a good idea not to do that anymore.  For anyone who has trouble grasping that concept, perhaps a brief FAQ is in order.

  • Q:  It's inconvenient!  I want my Kopernicus update now!
  • A:  It's nice to want things.  But when a person puts in hard work to give you free gifts, they don't owe you anything, and it's poor form to complain rather than showing gratitude that you have anything at all.
  • Q:  But isn't it stupid that they have a version lock?
  • A:  Well, given that they've been doing this for many years and have plenty of experience dealing with both the constantly-shifting platform that is KSP and the hassles of dealing with thousands of users who complain about their free toys, I expect that they know their business.
  • Q:  But I know better than them and I think it's a bad idea.
  • A:  And you base this assertion on how many years of maintaining Kopernicus yourself?
  • Q:  But it's really not necessary.  They should just install a magical alarm bell that will tell them when a KSP update causes a problem with Kopernicus.
  • A:  Unfortunately, magic is in short supply.  An update can cause subtle problems that aren't immediately apparent without extensive testing.  If Kopernicus is released without such testing, then that can ripple out to the many planet packs and thousands and thousands of users, resulting in a tidal wave of complaints that get in the team's way while they're trying to fix the problem.  So the team has decided that they'd rather deal with the river of complaints from entitled users who don't like having to wait a few days for an update, than the massive flood of complaints from entitled users whose planet packs are broken and KSP careers irrecoverably damaged.
  • Q:  Okay, but then couldn't they just install a switch so that someone who really wants it NAO can just play anyway?
  • A:  That would defeat the purpose of the lock.  If they did that, everyone would just flip that switch and things would break and then the whole mess would happen anyway.
  • Q:  But I don't like this.
  • A:  Then if you don't like that you occasionally have to wait a few days for the shiny toys that someone is putting in hard work to give you for free, you're welcome to look for shiny toys elsewhere.

Folks, that's really about all there is to say on the topic.  The Kopernicus team has made this decision, for reasons that make sense to them, and since it's their product, it's their choice.  Complaining about it won't help anything.  Given that we'd kinda like them to keep maintaining Kopernicus, perhaps it's best that we get out of their way and let them go about their business, rather than breathing down their necks and jostling their elbows, hmm?

Okay, unlocking the thread now.  Feel free to discuss Kopernicus matters.  Arguing about software development policies is off topic, and pressuring mod authors to change their mods is out of bounds (rule 2.2.p), so please try to color inside the lines, gang.

Thank you for your understanding.

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While waiting for the update, I'm dying to try JNSQ. If I keep playing on 1.7.0 for now, when kopernicus updates it'll still work in 1.7.1 right? Providing jnsq and all the other mods work in 1.7.1 of course

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20 minutes ago, Therese said:

While waiting for the update, I'm dying to try JNSQ. If I keep playing on 1.7.0 for now, when kopernicus updates it'll still work in 1.7.1 right? Providing jnsq and all the other mods work in 1.7.1 of course

JNSQ should work in 1.7.1 once Kopernicus is updated. However, unless you start a new career the BG surface features won't be present.

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14 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

JNSQ should work in 1.7.1 once Kopernicus is updated. However, unless you start a new career the BG surface features won't be present.

Right, forgot about those. Guess I'll play the waiting game :)

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gotta say, kudos to the Kop team and the admins here for the way they have handled all this craziness. You guys are the epitome of true professionalism. A sincere "thank you" for all the unpaid (almost said thankless, but I hope you all know there is a LOT of thanks to all of you) hours of hard work to maintain a plugin with this much demand.

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Silly question here :wink:

Before the 1.7.1 update I have been playing the game with Kopernicus installed mostly because it is one of the mods recommended by Astronomer's Visual Pack, but I haven't installed any custom planetary system mod (nor any other mod relying on Kopernicus), which probably negates the purpose of this mod. Can I keep on playing my current campaign, or I better wait for the upcoming Kopernicus version? 

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6 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

JNSQ should work in 1.7.1 once Kopernicus is updated. However, unless you start a new career the BG surface features won't be present.

You can make a little hack to your save's persistent.sfs file. I'll leave this hack as an exercise for the reader (Prof. Google is your friend here, though it's just a forum post right back in here somewhere that shows you what to do). There's a risk that enabling the BG features in your existing save will cause things to go kablooey, that didn't happen to me for my late-Science Career 1.7.0 save.

Anyway, back to our usual waiting re Kopernicus (I miss my Jool rings :)

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