Thomas P.

[1.8.1-1] Kopernicus & KittopiaTech

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9 hours ago, Jim DiGriz said:

This is still pestering about the update.

No release, no updated thread topic => no it should not be considered stable.

yup I just tested it doesn't work whatsoever

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12 hours ago, Jim DiGriz said:

This is still pestering about the update.

No release, no updated thread topic => no it should not be considered stable.

Saying everyone who asking questions are pestering is a bad idea, especially people in this thread have recommended to check github

Edited by ssd21345

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On 12/27/2019 at 4:00 PM, Jim DiGriz said:

This is still pestering about the update.

No release, no updated thread topic => no it should not be considered stable.

Actually, the person you quoted just asked a valid question. Either that or I should tell my boss to stop pestering me whenever he asks for a status update. 

Look, I get that people have lives and that giving status updates gets old quick, but to extend that to the point where I blame others for asking the question: not so much. 

Just my 2 cents in what feels like an increasingly hostile environment for questions of positive excited anticipation. 

If someone outright demands updates: sure, go for it and set him/her straight. 

Happy Holidays. 

Ps. I am expecting some posts to get moderated soon, if so, please keep in mind the important distinction between questions and demands. Thank you. 

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4 hours ago, Jognt said:

I should tell my boss to stop pestering me whenever he asks for a status update. 

As a representative of your employer, your boss is typically entitled to give you instructions, and to request status updates about your job related activities.  (But if he asks too often then you could try suggesting that you would make faster progress if he stops pestering you).

Asking a modder for progress updates is better compared to having a neighbour who voluntarily mows your lawn for free whenever he mows his lawns, and asking him "how long before you mow the lawns?". 

Now an very occasional and gentle request for an update about mods that might have been forgotten, (or in cases where you aren't sure whether the mod author is even aware that an update is needed) is fine.  But when people keep asking the same thing, that is just another case of pestering.  

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6 hours ago, AVaughan said:

As a representative of your employer, your boss is typically entitled to give you instructions, and to request status updates about your job related activities.  (But if he asks too often then you could try suggesting that you would make faster progress if he stops pestering you).

Asking a modder for progress updates is better compared to having a neighbour who voluntarily mows your lawn for free whenever he mows his lawns, and asking him "how long before you mow the lawns?". 

Now an very occasional and gentle request for an update about mods that might have been forgotten, (or in cases where you aren't sure whether the mod author is even aware that an update is needed) is fine.  But when people keep asking the same thing, that is just another case of pestering.  

Keep in mind that it’s just us that know how often the question gets asked. We remember the pages of culled content. Many others just see that it’s been a while since there was news. 

If you’ve been mowing the lawn for a long time, can you really fault others for asking when you’ll do it again? You can fault them for demanding it, but asking? Not to mention that some of these people paid the mower as a thanks, and that others have offered to mow the lawn instead but were kindly rejected because this one guy says he kinda prefers doing it. 

I get it. Seeing the same question over and over is annoying. But can you really fault someone for asking it?

I’ll leave it at that though. I should prepare for New Years :3

Edited by Jognt

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A good, civilised, balanced and thought-provoking discussion of the issue. Maybe it could be pinned somewhere/somehow, for people to refer to next time the topic crops up (not just here but elsewhere on the forums)...?

Well said both sides. [DOUBLE THUMBS UP]
 

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4 hours ago, pbristow said:

Maybe it could be pinned somewhere/somehow, for people to refer to next time the topic crops up (not just here but elsewhere on the forums)...?

You mean like this prominently stickied post, sitting right at the top of the Add-on Discussions forum;)

It's an essentially insoluble problem.  The reason that mod-pestering is such an issue is that many people don't bother "doing their homework" before posting a question-- for example, reading the mod's OP, or the last page or so of comments in the thread.  There will always be people like that-- even well-meaning folks can make mistakes when they're newbies.  And if a person's problem is that they don't bother to read stuff... well, obviously you can't fix that by posting something and expecting them to read it.

Which is why the above-linked thread doesn't (and can't) solve the issue, though I'm glad it exists.

Here are some unpleasant but inevitable facts of life, that are permanent and unavoidable because they stem from human nature (which never changes) and math (likewise):

  • For any mod, there will always be mod-pesterers, who do so through cluelessness even if they're well-meaning.
  • There's essentially no way to proactively stop this.
  • The more popular a mod is, the bigger its mod-pestering problem will be.  Kopernicus gets hit so hard all the time because it's so popular.

All we can do is try to behave ourselves... and when we witness some well-meaning person cluelessly coloring outside the lines, gently and politely fill them in about how things work (in a friendly way), so they'll know better in the future.  And if someone is being obnoxious / combative and seems unlikely to respond to friendly overtures, then don't engage them-- just report it to the moderators, and we'll sort it out.

In short:

  1. Be a positive role model
  2. Be patient with the innocently clueless... and help them learn better
  3. Report bad actors to the moderators.

Thanks!  :)

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2 hours ago, Snark said:

....

3. Report bad actors to the moderators.

Do you want a list? Granted most of them are from decades old TV and B movies where over the top hammy acting was par for the course.

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I take your point, Snark. However, I do think that the above thread is covering slightly different ground than the one that you linked to. *That* one tells people why it's bad to pester the mods; *This* one prompts people to think about the difference between "pestering" and "just enquiring", and where one crosses the line. For those of us who *do* (occasionally!) think to check out the linked posts, it provides something that could help calm down or even prevent some of the debates that spring up.

But I'm getting dangerously close to "Telling a Mod to 'Mod Betterer!' ", so I'll stop now. =;o}

 

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actually I dunno where the argument was at when the question he quoted is literally the only one iteration I can find in this thread

No one else has asked the same specific question

Edited by ssd21345

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On 12/28/2019 at 8:04 PM, Jognt said:

Actually, the person you quoted just asked a valid question. Either that or I should tell my boss to stop pestering me whenever he asks for a status update.

Yes.  Modding shouldn't be an upaid job and modders should not be getting requests for status updates, which just a nice way of phrasing pestering.  Your boss pesters you for status updates and you put up with it because you're being paid for it.

The existence of a branch in github only means that the problem is being worked on.

If it was complete and shippable, it would be merged and released.

And the irritating bit of the question is leading it off with "not pestering but..." followed by essentially pestering.

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11 hours ago, ssd21345 said:

actually I dunno where the argument was at when the question he quoted is literally the only one iteration I can find in this thread

No one else has asked the same specific question

Many many comments were removed/moderated because they went out of control into throwing personal attacks back and forth. Those of us who follow this thread can easily 'pop' due to something being asked again because it's easy to not realize that the person asking it may not even know how often it was brought up.

 

17 hours ago, Manwith Noname said:

Do you want a list? Granted most of them are from decades old TV and B movies where over the top hammy acting was par for the course.

Thanks, I had a good laugh over that one :P

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Then perhaps regular purges of such discussion are counterproductive. At most, one could censor the backseat moderators, and only them. Smacking down all "pestering" only ensures there'll be more (since it gives everyone a good reason to think they're the first to ask).

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1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

Then perhaps regular purges of such discussion are counterproductive. At most, one could censor the backseat moderators, and only them. Smacking down all "pestering" only ensures there'll be more (since it gives everyone a good reason to think they're the first to ask).

Though I feel this is a good thought to discuss and this thread serves as an excellent example, I also feel that this is not the right thread to discuss it. (Derailing and all)

Drop a link if you give that subject its own topic and I’ll gladly add my thoughts there. 

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Wow, I'm very sorry everyone, I didn't realize how much of an issue my question would cause. Please remove my original comment, I accept my mistake and would rather not be the poster child for forum laws... I understand the futility of "Not to ______, but..." statements, I just figured before I gave the branch a shot and possibly ruin my game, I'd ask if someone is trying. I also was directly NOT trying to get a response from the developers, just another forumgoer. I searched the thread and nobody had mentioned the existence of the 1.8.1 branch on Github, I thought maybe it had just popped up. In the future, I will remember what the forum here is for: giving thanks and posting bugs. Not asking easily answered questions.

Edited by RyGuy_McFly

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1 hour ago, RyGuy_McFly said:

Wow, I'm very sorry everyone, I didn't realize how much of an issue my question would cause. Please remove my original comment, I accept my mistake and would rather not be the poster child for forum laws... I understand the futility of "Not to ______, but..." statements, I just figured before I gave the branch a shot and possibly ruin my game, I'd ask if someone is trying. I also was directly NOT trying to get a response from the developers, just another forumgoer. I searched the thread and nobody had mentioned the existence of the 1.8.1 branch on Github, I thought maybe it had just popped up. In the future, I will remember what the forum here is for: giving thanks and posting bugs. Not asking easily answered questions.

No worries mate. You asked a valid question. If it wasn’t it wouldn’t be there anymore. ;) I’m sorry we can’t give you a better answer than the usual “no idea, just wait for a release” boilerplate. :) 

Happy New Year! May 2020 bring lots of goodies and fun. 

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Posted (edited)

Again. Happy New Year 2020!

I totally appreciate the continued development!   I think Kopernicus will be important for a LONG time because it may be a year until KSP2 arrives.  From viewing the pre-alpha gameplay, I don't think it looks much better than KSP1.   So we still need Kopernicus for lots of interstellar exploring.

Edited by enewmen

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13 hours ago, enewmen said:

Again. Happy New Year 2020!

I totally appreciate the continued development!   I think Kopernicus will be important for a LONG time because it may be a year until KSP2 arrives.  From viewing the pre-alpha gameplay, I don't think it looks much better than KSP1.   So we still need Kopernicus for lots of interstellar exploring.

remember it was pre-alpha it was most likely improved from what we've seen

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Natokerbal said:

remember it was pre-alpha it was most likely improved from what we've seen

I doubt the final version will be anything like the trailer.  MS Flight Simulator already looks excellent in the pre-alpha (for example) and shows pre-alpha should at least show-off the graphics engine, physics, and UI - without the content, testing ,etc.  Anyway, I hope you're right and I can dream the KSP2 game-play will be like the trailer.

Edited by enewmen

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14 hours ago, enewmen said:

I doubt the final version will be anything like the trailer.  MS Flight Simulator already looks excellent in the pre-alpha (for example) and shows pre-alpha should at least show-off the graphics engine, physics, and UI - without the content, testing ,etc.  Anyway, I hope you're right and I can dream the KSP2 game-play will be like the trailer.

remember ksp 1 just got a terrain texture update. It's highly likely that the quality will be the same or better

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55 minutes ago, Natokerbal said:

remember ksp 1 just got a terrain texture update. It's highly likely that the quality will be the same or better

Having been in Star Theory’s studio and seeing the terrain first hand, unequivocally better.

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4 hours ago, Galileo said:

Having been in Star Theory’s studio and seeing the terrain first hand, unequivocally better.

I wont pry you for information but did they make people like you who got to visit star theory sign NDAs? And is current optimism worthwhile or overblown in your opinion?

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On 1/3/2020 at 2:27 AM, mcwaffles2003 said:

I wont pry you for information but did they make people like you who got to visit star theory sign NDAs? And is current optimism worthwhile or overblown in your opinion?

The only thing I wasn’t able to do while I was there was take pictures inside the studio. Everything else we experienced has already been put on YouTube, Twitch, here. There wasn’t a whole lot of coverage regarding the terrain, and that may be because, while it looks nice, The others may have been more excited about actual game features and such. Me being me, however, I love planet design and textures, and little things that make the game more immersive. I can say, I saw blades of grass, stones, boulders, sticks, logs and great detail in the terrain on kerbin. The planet textures are generated with a program called substance designer. What it’s capable of is crazy cool. Very dynamic and realistic surfaces can be generated. I’m really excited to explore these new planets and see the views.

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Posted (edited)

Thought for the day:  You know modders are doing great work when you have so many people clamoring for your mod.

I keep checking here occasionally, but I would rather them do great work than to kick something half done out the door.

Edited by xman1

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