London suggestions?

[tater]

Thinking of maybe being in London in March.

I haven't been there in years, and I'm open to suggestions. We'll probably have 7-11 days to play with.

[Geonovast]

I understand there's a Black Arrow rocket on display at the London Science Museum.

[RealKerbal3x]

6 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

I understand there's a Black Arrow rocket on display at the London Science Museum.

They have a Lunar Module mockup there too.

@tater Visit the Science Museum, it’s great!

[XB-70A]

Her:

The HMS Belfast.

Wonderful museum, much of the cruiser can be visited, and there is even an original 28 cm shell from the Scharnhorst (IIRC they got it following the battle of the North Cape in 43’)

 

Also, the Royal Air Force Museum is absolutely incredible:

(who wouldn’t like to see a Vulcan?)

[tater]

4 minutes ago, XB-70A said:

(who wouldn’t like to see a Vulcan?) 

I saw one flying over... Albuquerque, of all places.

My parents were in town, and where chatting with the crew in the elevator of their hotel, too. Was a bizarre thing to see.

Assuming we stay just in the UK (vs taking a train East, under the Channel), I'd probably want to hit Duxford, and maybe Portsmouth.

Kind of a late start on planning a trip in March, but that tends to be how we roll.

[Kerbart]

Don’t forget the imperial war museum and the battle of britain museum.

[p1t1o]

Londoner here

Most of the big ticket items already mentioned - RAF museum, Duxford, Imperial War, HMS Belfast and the Science Museum. All of them are must-visits.

Be aware that Duxford and Portsmouth are both about 2 hours travel away from London-proper (depending on exactly where you are based of course). I dont know too much about Portsmouth but there IS a ton of Navy stuff there, mostly historic, such as the Mary Rose exhibit and a big museum.

Lets see if I can come up with anything else, but most of the science/military stuff mostly covered.

 

The Natural History museum is literally next door to the Science museum and is on par in terms of excellence. Hard to do them both in one day, but you could do it.

The Victoria & Albert museum is really interesting, something for everyone. From classical art to japanese fashion to drawings by Galileo. Theres one hallway just dedicated to old locks. Its a very eclectic mix. Probably more art than science but its one of my favorites.

The Welcome Collection. Now this is a cool titbit. Started way back when by a rich guy who just wanted to showcase his collection of cool stuff. It is quite medically oriented and actually houses a functioning research laboratory. Highlight for me was the exhibit containing Lord Admiral Nelson's straight-razor and Napoleon's toothbrush. There is also a full hardcopy of a complete human genome - yes, the font is very small and the volumes very thick.

Greenwich - Greenwich is a lovely place to visit especially if you can get a nice day, nice grass areas, cafes and a market of local stuff. Cool T-Shirts. Its a part of London-Proper but it has a much more villagey feel to it. The Cutty Sark and the Maritime museum are two main attractions here. Maritime museum is one of the things I want to see the most that I have not managed to do yet. Occasionally you might be able to see a Big Ship moored up nearby as well, I saw the new HMS Queen Elizabeth tied up there when she was still under construction.

Something else I have not done yet - I think its quite new - is the Churchill War Rooms. Give it a google and you'll know as much as I do about it.

If you like aquaria, theres a great one on the Southbank.

In fact, the Southbank is a great place to visit in itself and houses a handful of attractions. Its a good place to eat or grab some streetfood and walk the river with views of London.

 

Naturally theres a ton of other things too worth seeing. London transport mus. London Dungeon. Tower of London. Design mus. Tate modern (IF you're into "ART" with a capital "A"). St. Pauls. The Shard (dont book "tickets" to the observation deck, just go to one of the bars, views basically the same.) London Eye (Meh. Dont do this AND the Shard. Do one or the other.) Speedboat trips up+down the Thames.

And my favourite London restaurant:

https://rules.co.uk/

 

PS: also just check out things like special exhibitions that may be on at various places. There are often things happening on the Southbank, or special exhbitions at places like the Scince mus. or the V&A etc.etc.

Most of the big museums are totally free EXCEPT for special exhibitions.

 

PPS: Oh and theres a tiny Sherlock Holmes museum at 221b Baker Street (yup, the actual address). Its very small but quite cute, if youre into Sherlock type stuff. You only need 30 mins there.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by p1t1o

[YNM]

20 hours ago, tater said:

We'll probably have 7-11 days to play with.

There's the London Transport museum.

And if you can go further there's the NRM in York, but this is at least a 2.5 hrs journey one-way (so 5 hrs return) and the train tickets aren't exactly cheap (about 60 GBP / 80 USD return).

Generally if you're also interested in industrial stuff you can always head north, ie. there's the Science and Industry museum in Manchester (but again this is a 2.5 hrs one-way / 5 hrs return that costs 70 GBP / 95 USD and upwards).

[tater]

@p1t1o

Thanks. My daughter has already said Sherlock museum is a must see.

Rules is now on the list as well for food.

1 hour ago, YNM said:

And if you can go further there's the NRM in York, but this is at least a 2.5 hrs journey one-way (so 5 hrs return) and the train tickets aren't exactly cheap (about 60 GBP / 80 USD return).

2 hours travel is nothing. The UK would fit inside NM I think, and we drive all over here, lol. I'm very open to leaving London, perhaps for a few days, just need some sense of where to go.

[p1t1o]

Its weird hearing people talk about visiting london but also the rest of the country, to me it sounds like you're saying "Yeah, planning a nice holiday, couple of weeks in New York City, and we might take a day and pop on over to San Francisco just whilst we're in the neighbourhood."

Obviously there is a disconnect in terms of scale

Just beware of train ticket prices, they're only reasonable booked well in advance and ticket price sometimes doesnt seem related to distance. Its a long term problem. We invented the railway, but are just the worst at it.

It might actually be worth looking at air tickets, its only like a 40min hop between London/Manchester/Newcastle/Edinburgh (doesnt matter which pair, any one and once you take off you're minutes away from entering the landing stack at the next place.)

 

Bristol is really nice (went to Uni there) and they have a new-ish air museum which has a Concorde

http://aerospacebristol.org/

 

Theres a pretty historical air heritage around Bristol, there used to be a major BAE plant there IIRC, and I think the Fleet Air Arm museum?

This might be an interesting "diamond in the rough", if its still open:

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/museums/main/bristol-aero-collection.htm

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by p1t1o

[tater]

28 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Its weird hearing people talk about visiting london but also the rest of the country, to me it sounds like you're saying "Yeah, planning a nice holiday, couple of weeks in New York City, and we might take a day and pop on over to San Francisco just whilst we're in the neighbourhood."

Well, you could spend 2 weeks in NYC and not run out of things to do. I've only ever spent a day in London before, and I didn't even scratch it. We routinely go and spend a week in San Francisco, for example, and we rarely go anywhere we can't walk. I'm sure we could spend a week in London, but we're open to trips out of there.

To me, this is like Saying "I'm going to NYC, and I'm open to visiting Connecticut." Boston is like 3 hours from NYC, and I consider that close enough that we've done both in the same trip (my family living about 1/2 way between the 2 doesn't hurt).

I'll drive to Santa Fe to see a talk or movie, or even just for dinner (about 50 miles).

[YNM]

49 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Its weird hearing people talk about visiting london but also the rest of the country...

I'm not sure why but I find the North more attractive 

 

Although, back on London :

(there's a list in the video description for both)

Edited January 28, 2019 by YNM

[tater]

I'll try and take a look at those later (or make my kids watch them). We're trying to contact some people as well. My wife has someone she knows professionally who is there, and I have a friend I have not contacted in a long time (who is in contact with a mutual friend, however) who I might be able to see. It all of course requires balance with stuff my wife and I want to do, and stuff 2 teenagers want to do

So my son and I might never want to leave air museums, etc, my wife and daughter would be interested some of the time, but might get sick of it (I know this from dragging everyone onto every gray ship (or submarine) we can board in every port city in the US we visit). I think my kids want to see at least one proper castle, too.

Edited January 29, 2019 by tater

[YNM]

17 hours ago, tater said:

I'll try and take a look at those later (or make my kids watch them).

Spoiler

First video :

*** THE BIG LIST ***

Ian Visits London - Events listings https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/

Transport for London Tours - Organised by the London Transport Museum http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/

Mail Rail - information probably available via the Postal Museum http://postalmuseum.org/

Granary Square, Kings Cross - Cool Fountains (at night) https://www.kingscross.co.uk/granary-...

Grant Museum of Zoology - Weird specimens in jars http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museums/zoology

Horniman Museum - Huge taxidermy collection http://www.horniman.ac.uk/

Sir John Soane's Museum - A house full of old artefacts http://www.soane.org/

Platform 9 3/4 - Long queues for a photo at Kings Cross. https://www.harrypotterplatform934.co...

PARKS: Holland Park - Battersea Park - Finsbury Park - Hampstead Heath - Parliament Hill - Richmond Park - Greenwich Park

Alexandra Palace - Events space, pub and park with spectacular views of London. http://www.alexandrapalace.com/

Not The Nine O'Clock News: Darts sketch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgap_...

Bletchley Park - Where Alan Turing & team cracked the Enigma Code. Home of the National Museum of Computing https://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/

The Barbican - Brutalist housing & events centre http://www.barbican.org.uk/

Hawksmoor Steak Restaurant (£££) http://thehawksmoor.com/

ClueQuest - Escape Room https://cluequest.co.uk/

The Crystal Maze Experience, based on the '90s TV show http://the-crystal-maze.com/ (We mentioned Fort Boyard and Legends of the Hidden Temple while trying to explain this.)

Second video :

Here are some places which sell food that we like.

...

Burgers: Both of these do burgers made with real meat that tastes like food : Five Guys http://fiveguys.co.uk - American chain which is beginning to expand round the UK; Meat Market https://meatliquor.com/meat-market/ (also Meat Mission & Meat Liquor, similar elsewhere)

Dishoom http://www.dishoom.com/ - Who Killed The British Curry House: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandst...

Bodean's BBQ http://bodeansbbq.com/

Mildred's http://www.mildreds.co.uk/ - Vegetarian Restaurant: Tonkotsu http://www.tonkotsu.co.uk/ - Tokyo Diner http://www.tokyodiner.com/ - Taro http://www.tarorestaurants.co.uk/ - Baozi Inn http://baoziinnlondon.com/

Avoid: Angus Steak House - It's a tourist trap.

Hawksmoor http://thehawksmoor.com/

Dip and Flip http://www.dipandflip.co.uk/

Mod Pizza https://modpizza.co.uk/ - Pizza Union http://www.pizzaunion.com/

Eritrean and Ethiopian Food (no specific recommendation)

Burritos: Tortilla http://www.tortilla.co.uk/ - Benito's Hat http://benitos-hat.com/

Fernando's, St Martin Lane

La Gelateria http://www.lagelatiera.co.uk/

 

17 hours ago, tater said:

It alll of course requires baalnce with stuff my wife and I want to do, and stuff 2 teenagers want to do 

Yeah, I thought about it, hence I'm a bit wary of longer trips out of London if only half of the participants was OK with it !

Edited January 29, 2019 by YNM

[YNM]

3 hours ago, tater said:

my kids want to see at least one proper castle, too.

Spoiler

She covers more castles but they're far outside of London.

Spoiler

 

 

 

[tater]

I'm willing to go a ways to see a castle, this is what counts as a fort/castle here (well, 4 hours north in Colorado):

 

[tater]

Those vids are good, lol. Some useful info there.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

12 hours ago, p1t1o said:

[...]

The Victoria & Albert museum is really interesting, something for everyone. From classical art to japanese fashion to drawings by Galileo. Theres one hallway just dedicated to old locks. Its a very eclectic mix. Probably more art than science but its one of my favorites.

12 hours ago, p1t1o said:

[...]

Greenwich - Greenwich is a lovely place to visit especially if you can get a nice day, nice grass areas, cafes and a market of local stuff. Cool T-Shirts. Its a part of London-Proper but it has a much more villagey feel to it. The Cutty Sark and the Maritime museum are two main attractions here. Maritime museum is one of the things I want to see the most that I have not managed to do yet. Occasionally you might be able to see a Big Ship moored up nearby as well, I saw the new HMS Queen Elizabeth tied up there when she was still under construction.

[...]

+1 for both of these, start at the top of the V&A so you can see the endless shelves of china. If you go the Greenwich observatory, make sure to use your phone to find 0 longitude, it isn't where the tourist marker is anymore.

The science museum is good too, lots of great steam engines in addition to space stuff. I took a day trip to Brighton on the UK's amazing train service, it was fun even though it was the off season. St. Paul's cathedral has spiral staircases all the way to the top, that's pretty fun.

[YNM]

7 minutes ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

If you go the Greenwich observatory, make sure to use your phone to find 0 longitude, it isn't where the tourist marker is anymore.

Incorrect.

Spoiler

 

tl;dr WGS84 works well for the US, and the rest of the world is forced to cope with it thanks to GPS, but Ordnance Survey has a geoid that works better for the British Isles and their maps still uses them.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

34 minutes ago, YNM said:

Incorrect.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

tl;dr WGS84 works well for the US, and the rest of the world is forced to cope with it thanks to GPS, but Ordnance Survey has a geoid that works better for the British Isles and their maps still uses them.

That may have an affect, but the real reason for the difference is from more precise measurements of the center of rotation of the earth:

"Today, tourists visiting its meridian line must walk east approximately 102 m before their satellite-navigation receivers indicate zero longitude. This offset can be accounted for by the difference between astronomical and geodetic coordinates—deflection of the vertical—in the east–west direction at Greenwich, and the imposed condition of continuity in astronomical time."

"...the authors show that the deflection of the vertical (DoV) can account for the entire longitude shift at Greenwich."

- https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2Fs00190-015-0844-y.pdf

The historical significance of the location, and arguably its title as prime meridian of the world, are indisputable though.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Mad Rocket Scientist

[YNM]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

the authors show that the deflection of the vertical (DoV) can account for the entire longitude shift at Greenwich.

tl;dr they used a different geoid.

I'd argue that the current ITRF, EGM etc. are based off WGS84 which in turn is based off the US ellipsoid in the past. The author used these measurements and so got the same results.

You can construct the geoid model in EGM to the exact same with a different ellipsoid than WGS - you just need different offsets. But each of them will have a different coordinate for the same point, as the act of optimizing an ellipsoid for a localized area means the global overall conformity is ommited. And so every single one of the old national ellipsoids are optimized only for their local area, not the whole of the Earth. This also includes that the zenith as measured by spirit level locally might not be the same as the radius (radial-out) as seen from the Earth's center of mass.

I mean, heck, by 1760s they already attempted to triangulate the area between Greenwich observatory and Paris observatory, though sadly they failed - had it been a success the whole of western europe might have used one common ellipsoid.

My geodetic lecturer told us that we ourselves had a problem similar to this - the geoid used when we were a dutch colony follows their ellipsoid as well as their projection,most countries in the north and south uses conical projection, as the end of the cone can conveniently be put over the poles; but our equatorial position favours more towards cylindrical projection. Though by the moment we are able to construct our own ellipsoid just a few years ago, UTM coordinates are already widespread, and such it's not very advantageous to use.

Anyway :

@tater Of course if you want to see a castle still in use there's Windsor. Tower of London is also a form of castle.

[p1t1o]

15 hours ago, YNM said:

I'm not sure why but I find the North more attractive 

Im from the North East and totally get that...for the most part anyway. You know the scenery in Bladerunner? Ridley Scott is from around my old neck of the woods and based it on the area.

 

[Dman979]

Go to York. The walls are great to walk around, and the tower is fun, too. Skip the Viking Museum, though- it's not worth it.

When I as there, we took the train up and stayed in the Hostel. It was a terrific experience.

[YNM]

Spoiler

20 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

Go to York.

 

 

[Dman979]

4 hours ago, YNM said:

  Hide contents

 

 

Went to Scarborough, too. Had some great family moments in a restaurant there.