Jestersage

So what is Serenity?

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1 minute ago, I_Killed_Jeb said:

KSP2 would presumably be a full release separate from KSP1 so I doubt anyone's fabric would be destroyed. As generous as the updates may be I would be shocked if T2 just gave away a sequel to all OG owners of KSP

 

I'm referring to the fabric of the KSP community. I doubt T2 will be friendly to moding in KSP2, again all progress that people have made, all crafts that are not simple rockets but intricately designed like propeller planes will be destroyed. I mean back when I was on console I had a KSP same with 200 flights before enhanced edition, I only stopped playing that save when that useless version deleted my save. Its not right to have this community supported game like KSP where people have spent hundreds of hours making mods building graphics models and such and then tell them all their work went to waste. Its would be better to fully develop this game as far as conceivable possible and then release a Physics pack DLC become creating KSP 2 which would a kerbalized full simulator. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 9:28 PM, I_Killed_Jeb said:

As generous as the updates may be I would be shocked if T2 just gave away a sequel to all OG owners of KSP

It was made quite clear, to me at least, in the wording of the free updates clause, that it would not cover anything like a KSP2.

 

 

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I know I'm nearly a month behind to comment on this, but I honestly don't think Serenity is anything. DLC or otherwise. At best I think it may have been a corporate project codename for an upcoming big update, or could be a pet game project of the person typing it in who accidentally included it. Just my opinion though.

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On 2/21/2019 at 8:35 PM, Cheif Operations Director said:

I'm referring to the fabric of the KSP community. I doubt T2 will be friendly to moding in KSP2, again all progress that people have made, all crafts that are not simple rockets but intricately designed like propeller planes will be destroyed. I mean back when I was on console I had a KSP same with 200 flights before enhanced edition, I only stopped playing that save when that useless version deleted my save. Its not right to have this community supported game like KSP where people have spent hundreds of hours making mods building graphics models and such and then tell them all their work went to waste. Its would be better to fully develop this game as far as conceivable possible and then release a Physics pack DLC become creating KSP 2 which would a kerbalized full simulator. 

Sequels happen in the game industry.  It only destroys the community if you let it.  Look at the fighting game community.  There are players who have been around for near 20 years now and are still competing.

Every modder knows that their mod will only work for the game it's made for.  It in no way means "all their work went to waste."  The game they made the mod for will still exist.  Some people will still play that game.  Some people still play Doom WADs.  Last I looked Warcraft 3 DOTA was still being played.  Though, last I looked was honestly before new DOTA came out.  To say a sequel makes their work irrelevant dismisses all of this, the knowledge they gained, and the fun they had making them.

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9 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

Sequels happen in the game industry.  It only destroys the community if you let it.  Look at the fighting game community.  There are players who have been around for near 20 years now and are still competing.

Every modder knows that their mod will only work for the game it's made for.  It in no way means "all their work went to waste."  The game they made the mod for will still exist.  Some people will still play that game.  Some people still play Doom WADs.  Last I looked Warcraft 3 DOTA was still being played.  Though, last I looked was honestly before new DOTA came out.  To say a sequel makes their work irrelevant dismisses all of this, the knowledge they gained, and the fun they had making them.

Again what more could they add other than better physics and more planets etc. My point is that a new game is a cash grab and means that the community will need to wait for a while for new mods to come out. I would much rather a KSP "two" expansion pack/ DLC. Unless they intend to make a full in simulator

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2 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Again what more could they add other than better physics and more planets etc. My point is that a new game is a cash grab and means that the community will need to wait for a while for new mods to come out. I would much rather a KSP "two" expansion pack/ DLC. Unless they intend to make a full in simulator 

A whole new (game) engine, with the full road map of how KSP2 will be built, with most features and such planned out long in advance.  I would say the vast majority of bugs and shenanigans that happen today are from loopholes and work arounds that devs had to build into the game to get it to work as it far outgrew what it was initially intended to be.    Squad is a marketing studio, not a game studio, and they have done a wonderful job with KSP, but there were some learning curves.   KSP2 would be a fresh start with a solid game plan this time. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2/27/2019 at 6:33 PM, Cheif Operations Director said:

Again what more could they add other than better physics and more planets etc.

If I would try to make a list of all that could be added to KSP on a second take of it, to make it a new and interesting game without losing the connection with the first iteration and the community built around it, that list would be, of course, incomplete, not to mention that it would only be a personal view coming from my expectations and wishes, therefore it would be a meaningless, unworthy effort. So, here it is:

- They could add a complete historical take on the development of the aerospacial industry, including the political struggle that rushed the technological race, which leads to the inclusion of factions and a competitive way of playing KSP, multiplayer or AI based;

- They could add life and meaning to the game by many different ways:

cities, regions, flight traffic, etc;

economic simulation of the exploration and exploitation of space resources and how it would affect the economics of the planet Kerbin and its society, with success measured not only on how far you get, but how efficiently you get there;

a kerbal society, preferably as one centered on scientific achievements and space exploration not only for its own advancement but as a behavior derived from the valuation of knowledge as a worthy pursuit;

ALIENS!

Disease and sickness that comes from long periods exposed to the unfiltered radiation of space, drama, conflicting but valid goals to exploit ethical issues and all that narrative stuff;

- They could add, ya know, the basic stuff: more advanced tech to reach other star systems that they also could add, stuff that you mentioned and that some mods already do, and honestly I think that would be a no brainer if T2 would ever think of making KSP the triple A game kind of stuff they like to do.

- They could add some kind of RPG system for the development of kerbal characters, with skills relevant for specific roles and mission management that would require a varied rooster of kerbonauts. That, along with things already added by mods, like life support and proppable objects, construction, etc, would make for a very expansive gameplay.

They don't need to make from KSP a X type of space sim and, frankly, they shouldn't. But nothing mentioned here would required hem to do so. Kerbals are the underlining theme of the game,. With their unique naive/benign mindset centered on courage and curiosity, they would in itself maintain the originality of the franchise, that is esteemed exactly because of the kerbal approach to challenge and valour. We know the kerbal way.

I've said elsewhere that I believe KSP has an untapped marketing power that would see movies, toys and all that stuff as a natural consequence of its development. T2 might still be a big corp with all the related issues, but it isn't on EA's level. T2 can make all that happen if they so desire, and it will easily happen if a couple of its executives and their kids play this game. A KSP2 doesn't need to be just a cash grab, even though that's the primary concern of any business enterprise. If it is made right, it will show.

Edited by BadLeo

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On 2/27/2019 at 7:07 PM, Gargamel said:

A whole new (game) engine, with the full road map of how KSP2 will be built, with most features and such planned out long in advance.  I would say the vast majority of bugs and shenanigans that happen today are from loopholes and work arounds that devs had to build into the game to get it to work as it far outgrew what it was initially intended to be.    Squad is a marketing studio, not a game studio, and they have done a wonderful job with KSP, but there were some learning curves.   KSP2 would be a fresh start with a solid game plan this time. 

I suppose I would be fine with it asklong as we can transfer craft 

Also they allow the modders of the most popular mods early access to code so they can begin the KSP2 versions

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3 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I suppose I would be fine with it asklong as we can transfer craft 

I don't think there would be any point.   KSP2 would have to be a complete rebuild from the ground up.  The physics would be different, the parts would be different.  There would be no possible way to get a complete craft from one to the other.  Trying to ensure backwards compatibility here would cause more issues than it would solve. 

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6 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

There would be no possible way to get a complete craft from one to the other.  Trying to ensure backwards compatibility here would cause more issues than it would solve. 

Not necessarily. The CFG files are just text describing what the code should do. You can rewrite the code without changing semantics of the data being read.

It's the reason you can compile the same C source code on different machines using different compilers. Or can render HTML on different browsers.

However, it will worth the cost? Would not be better to have a external converter tool. so we can just start over on a clean slate?  These are the questions that should be answered before starting such a stunt. However, such a stunt is far from being not possible.

In a nutshell: "Hey, user, I can reuse your older stock crafts. It will cost you 20 bucks on the fee. Are you willing to pay for it?"

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6 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Not necessarily.

Those are very fair points.  I should have said, don't expect it to be doable, as the work required to do so might be too much for what is in the designs. 

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19 hours ago, Lisias said:

Not necessarily. The CFG files are just text describing what the code should do. You can rewrite the code without changing semantics of the data being read.

It's the reason you can compile the same C source code on different machines using different compilers. Or can render HTML on different browsers.

However, it will worth the cost? Would not be better to have a external converter tool. so we can just start over on a clean slate?  These are the questions that should be answered before starting such a stunt. However, such a stunt is far from being not possible.

In a nutshell: "Hey, user, I can reuse your older stock crafts. It will cost you 20 bucks on the fee. Are you willing to pay for it?"

this is the problem with creative games like KSP and minecraft. You can not release a second erosion because people put so much effort into one version because they are creative. Imagine if minecraft 2 Camembert out and their was no backward compatibility. I don't play MC but people have built full cities. 

I do not see the problem in letting some parts from the old game come over. But I see what you mean. If KSP ever comes out tweakscale should be stock!

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Posted (edited)
On 3/7/2019 at 5:22 PM, Cheif Operations Director said:

If KSP ever comes out tweakscale should be stock!

Hey! This would make me jobless! :D 

On a side note, perhaps not the "full tweakscale". Trying to figure out a way to scale every single part that any crazy Add'On author could create would drive the guys nuts. But a stock interface to be realized by people willing to scale his parts would be interesting - so they withhold control on scaling critical datum (as mass), and don't have to bother trying to cope with crazy Add'On authors. :) 

Edited by Lisias
tasting my own medicine :)

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4 hours ago, Lisias said:

Hey! This would make me jobless! :D 

On a side note, perhaps not the "full tweakscale". Trying to figure out a way to scale every single part that any crazy modder could create would drive the guys nuts. But a stock interface to be realized by people willing to scale his parts would be interesting - so they withhold control on scaling critical datum (as mass), and don't have to bother trying to cope with crazy modders. :) 

You could always multiply or divide the parts values by what is the new scale. For engine speed keep ISP the same and increase thrust

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33 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

You could always multiply or divide the parts values by what is the new scale. For engine speed keep ISP the same and increase thrust

It's not so simple "downthere" on the CPU. This subject is way off topic, so ping me here if you are interested.

Spoiler

But in a nutshell, when you try to mangle some key data from KSP kernels, you risk crashing it due mishaps - not only from you, but from anyone that tries to use the same data without being aware of each other. Two mods trying to change the mass at the same time (yeah, it happened) risk one of them getting a part with zero mass. And zero mass parts sooner or later sparks a Division by Zero exception inside the physics engine guts.

This is not exclusive for mass and TweakScale. It only happens that TweakScale is somewhat popular, so things usually blew under my bonnet. :) 

 

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2 hours ago, Lisias said:

It's not so simple "downthere" on the CPU. This subject is way off topic, so ping me here if you are interested.

  Hide contents

But in a nutshell, when you try to mangle some key data from KSP kernels, you risk crashing it due mishaps - not only from you, but from anyone that tries to use the same data without being aware of each other. Two mods trying to change the mass at the same time (yeah, it happened) risk one of them getting a part with zero mass. And zero mass parts sooner or later sparks a Division by Zero exception inside the physics engine guts.

This is not exclusive for mass and TweakScale. It only happens that TweakScale is somewhat popular, so things usually blew under my bonnet. :) 

 

Interesting, Maby a way to override the pervious mass? I don't know I don't code just an idea.

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I think the key factor is to realize no game will ever be 100% complete, in the sense that, after released, people will always find things that could be added, subtracted or tweaked (shout out to Lisias)... the difference between allowing players to do those things to their hearts content or not allowing at all is the difference between a game being played by an unyielding community 10 years after its release and a game abandoned by all but a few die hard fans in less than half that time.

Regardless of the actual content a speculative KSP2 would have, I believe it would be down right dumbness to not make it live up to its predecessor's modularity or, preferably, to build over and expand it. Sure, T2 will find a way to profit on that, probably in the form of endless DLCs a là Paradox Studios, but if the core game is rich enough in terms of content, it doesn't seem to be a problem, as long as its modularity isn't affected in a harmful way, and it might even encourage the acceptance of (reasonably priced) DLCs.

Looking by that perspective, I don't see backward compatibility as an issue. I mean, assuming T2 won't leave KSP abandoned to go for its second iteration, which doesn't seem to be the plan, as they recently released their intentions to put out updates every 3 months. If they leave KSP on a state the community can more or less agree (hahaha) as finished, then its support around the idea of a complete new KSP2 will be almost granted. In that sense, any expense here and now could be worth as an investment on the IP's general value with eyes on a long lasting franchise. And I honestly don't know why T2 would buy it other than to have that.

Now, would you feel sorry to let the things you've spent so much time and effort building to go for a shiny, brand knew game? I absolutely, 100% guarantee you wont' IF, as I said, KSP1 isn't left half-done (it's technically already done with the release of 1.0, but, whatever, we know it isn't, really), AND IF you have a lot of expectations to look forward to. They will hype it, they will promise things, they'll make you count the days and, hopefully, they'll deliver it all, and you'll have a new blank canvas to build a lot of amazing things. In the event it flops and all the expectation is frustrated, though, you'll still have the old KSP to go back to (while regretting the trust you put and the money you wasted on those greed stand-up guys, YES, I'M LOOKING AT YOU, EA!).

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Top 10 reasons to code name it serenity:

10.  It's a dlc depicting the Firefly universe.

9. Because little purple people are much calmer than green ones.

8. Space is huge so once you start exploring it you die of boredom.

7. The splash screen will show an aquarium full of fish after you crash...to help you calm down.

6. Because Arther hurt his arm.

5. Auto correct changed serendipity to serenity.

4. Updating causes a black screen when trying to load... very serene.

3. You'll get the joke once it's released.

2. It fixes all bugs so there's nothing to get angry about any more.

1. It could mean anything creating endless speculation and hype.

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11 hours ago, kBob said:

3. You'll get the joke once it's released. 

We're pretty sure it was the Console Mun base, but funny list none the less. 

 

11 hours ago, kBob said:

10.  It's a dlc depicting the Firefly universe.

This.... This I would love to see.... 

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On 1/31/2019 at 6:32 AM, MaverickSawyer said:

Perhaps a revamp of surface operations?

On 1/31/2019 at 6:51 AM, MaverickSawyer said:

A stock KIS would be awesome if implemented correctly.

This guy knew it.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

This guy knew it.

 

So if we assume that Serenity is indeed Breaking Ground, then how does 'Serenity' relate to the name and content of the new DLC?

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3 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

So if we assume that Serenity is indeed Breaking Ground, then how does 'Serenity' relate to the name and content of the new DLC?

It kept people from knowing right off exactly what it was, therefore keeping the element of surprise.

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1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

This guy knew it.

 

HOLY...

 

I was only kidding about the KIS bit. But my GOD the new stuff looks glorious!

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