SpinkAkron

[1.8.x] UnKerballed Start v1.1.0 (updated Oct 27, 2019)

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3 hours ago, Beetlecat said:

--- not to mention falling in love with the BDB set, and now wanting to map out where all *THAT* should go in UKS's tree. ;)  I guess it's mostly just migrating the pods down the tree a bit further.

Oof, yeah. Mega-mods like BDB or the Near Future suite or Interstellar are absolute pains to integrate into modded trees. Easier when you're using one based on Stock and CTT, but I can't imagine the pain of doing it for a complete tree rework like Engineering Tech Tree.

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46 minutes ago, theonegalen said:

Oof, yeah. Mega-mods like BDB or the Near Future suite or Interstellar are absolute pains to integrate into modded trees. Easier when you're using one based on Stock and CTT, but I can't imagine the pain of doing it for a complete tree rework like Engineering Tech Tree.

Yeah. Eventually I just rely on self-discipline to know where this-or-that part *should* be available, and just wait to use it. ;)

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Posted (edited)

Great to see that this is seeing new patches still! Since @Beetlecat is doing bdb, I'll do tantares, knes, luciole, cre, mj, cnar, x-20 -- basically everything I have installed. It sounds like a lot, but it's just an afternoon.

Edited by Clamp-o-Tron

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8 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Great to see that this is seeing new patches still! Since @Beetlecat is doing bdb, I'll do tantares, knes, luciole, cre, mj, cnar, x-20 -- basically everything I have installed. It sounds like a lot, but it's just an afternoon.

Not too loud, or people might hold us to this! :D

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8 hours ago, Beetlecat said:

Not too loud, or people might hold us to this! :D

I nominate @Beetlecat and @Clamp-o-Tron to officially provide support for the mods they have specified, valid for an indefinite period of time. Can I get an AMEN!? :sticktongue:

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Posted (edited)
On 8/10/2020 at 2:54 AM, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Great to see that this is seeing new patches still! Since @Beetlecat is doing bdb, I'll do tantares, knes, luciole, cre, mj, cnar, x-20 -- basically everything I have installed. It sounds like a lot, but it's just an afternoon.

 

On 8/10/2020 at 10:56 AM, Beetlecat said:

Not too loud, or people might hold us to this! :D

theonegalen will remember this. :p

Please go ahead and contribute whatever patches you can. As I haven't heard from @SpinkAkron in a while, and as a previous co-developer of the mod, I think I'm going to officially adopt it if Spink doesn't come back soon. I've tried a couple of different trees since 1.10 came out, but I find myself chafing against some choices made in those trees. My playstyle just doesn't match, and I miss this. I'm busy getting ready for the start of school right now, but I will be working on testing an updated UKS-Continued when I find time to do so.

Edited by theonegalen

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Posted (edited)

An update: I have SpinkAkron's blessing to continue UKS solo, and now I am an official co-author on Spacedock. When I'm ready for the new release, I will make a new thread and link it here.

Note: move 1.875m heatshield to a different / earlier? node - not with the Snack tins in Life Support. Watching twitch.tv/rocketology has convinced me of this.

Edited by theonegalen

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TranceaddicT said:

???

A streamer who (I think) uses this mod.

BTW, I have some small suggestions for movements of parts, particularly the small BG robotics, and maybe a separate branch for communications?

Anyway, I’ve greatly expanded the scope of the patches I’m doing to basically anything I can find that adds parts and seems likely to be played alongside this. It might take a couple weeks of effort. @theonegalen, when you fork this, can you make a github for this so I can make a direct PR?

Edited by Clamp-o-Tron

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

A streamer who (I think) uses this mod.

BTW, I have some small suggestions for movements of parts, particularly the small BG robotics, and maybe a separate branch for communications?

Anyway, I’ve greatly expanded the scope of the patches I’m doing to basically anything I can find that adds parts and seems likely to be played alongside this. It might take a couple weeks of effort. @theonegalen, when you fork this, can you make a github for this so I can make a direct PR?

I am github-ignorant, but I wouldn't be opposed to learning about it. I've opened issues and such, but never set up much of anything myself. 

Edited by theonegalen

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You don’t really even have to do anything with the command line, it’s possible to just input stuff from the browser.

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1 hour ago, theonegalen said:

I am github-ignorant, but I wouldn't be opposed to learning about it. I've opened issues and such, but never set up much of anything myself. 

I'm barely conversant but I'll set up the repository if you like.

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1 hour ago, theonegalen said:

I am github-ignorant, but I wouldn't be opposed to learning about it. I've opened issues and such, but never set up much of anything myself. 

I have been using Github Desktop and I have been finding that to be much easier than the web interface.  I've combined that with a folder compare program (my personal favorite is Beyond Compare, but it is not open source).  I work on some config files in KSP, use the folder compare program to move any changed files to my local version of the Github repository and then push the changes.  No command line knowledge needed

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Posted (edited)

@theonegalen I'm finishing up knes, and I found a part (the small hab based on the mk 1 passenger module) that doesn't really fit anywhere. So I would suggest a new tier 6 or 7 node for "early habitation modules". I think it would give a good place for those kinds of parts that don't quite belong in short term hab, and aren't command modules. 

I do have knes almost done, and already have finished several of the smaller mods.

 

Edited by Clamp-o-Tron
Knes is done!

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`

21 hours ago, TranceaddicT said:

I'm barely conversant but I'll set up the repository if you like.

I appreciate it, but it would probably be better in the long run for me to learn how to do it.

20 hours ago, hemeac said:

I have been using Github Desktop and I have been finding that to be much easier than the web interface.  I've combined that with a folder compare program (my personal favorite is Beyond Compare, but it is not open source).  I work on some config files in KSP, use the folder compare program to move any changed files to my local version of the Github repository and then push the changes.  No command line knowledge needed

Thanks.

19 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

@theonegalen I'm finishing up knes, and I found a part (the small hab based on the mk 1 passenger module) that doesn't really fit anywhere. So I would suggest a new tier 6 or 7 node for "early habitation modules". I think it would give a good place for those kinds of parts that don't quite belong in short term hab, and aren't command modules. 

I do have knes almost done, and already have finished several of the smaller mods.

 

Thanks, I'll look into it.

I'm battening down the hatches for Hurricane Laura. It's not supposed to hit me dead on, so hopefully I won't lose electrical power for very long. Internet goes down here just about every time it rains hard, so I figure it'll at least be the weekend before I'm able to check back in. If I have power and no internet, that'll help me focus on getting stuff done, maybe.

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Posted (edited)

Well, the hurricane ended up going to the east of me, so I'm fine. I know other people are suffering, but that's also the continued human experience.

So I have a couple of days off of work and I'm going to try to update the stock and ReStock/Restock+ configs today.

Edited by theonegalen

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Posted (edited)

I just discovered that the version of UKS I've been working from is not actually the newest version. When you click the "download" button on SpaceDock like I did last week, it doesn't download v1.1.0 but v1.0.8. Do not use anything I've done, I'm redoing it.

Fixed it. 

Stock (including MH and BG) and restock/+ are go.

github here: https://github.com/theonegalen/UnKerballedStart/

Edited by theonegalen

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Posted (edited)

 Alright, going through the thread to see what needs to be changed.  

 

On 5/22/2019 at 3:05 PM, kcs123 said:

@theonegalen, is it possible to remove "FINAL" from this KAX config ?

 

On 5/31/2019 at 2:23 PM, Jognt said:

Regardless, using FINAL should be a 'last resort' for stuff you definitely aren't going to distribute and don't want to tinker too much with. For most cases "AFTER[]" is good enough, for edge cases you can use "LAST[]", but FINAL?

Current plan is to change all "FINAL" to "LAST" - these patches were written before "LAST" was a thing, IIRC. (Or maybe before I knew LAST was a thing :P)

 

On 7/16/2019 at 9:43 AM, kcs123 said:

Although, I think that "zzzUnkerballedStart" that is written everywhere trough UnkerbaledStart patches does not do anything, because there is no such folder inside Gamedata folder or plugin with that name. I think that it is leftover of WIP version of Unkerballed Start mod, but have to check with @SpinkAkron to tell for sure. Any of those does not cause any harm, though.

Spink originally used :FOR[zzzUnkerballedStart] in order to make sure that the UKS patches ran after whatever part mods someone might have. I asked him to use :BEFORE[zzzUnkerballedStart] so that I could make the tree adaptive - using :AFTER[zzzUnkerballedStart] to move parts around depending on which mods someone had installed. The CustomBarnKit config has :FOR[zzzUnkerballedStart], which tells ModuleManager that it exists. Not sure where the zzz came from. I might try without it, but not in my first update.

 

On 5/28/2019 at 1:32 PM, kcs123 said:

IR Next is just released.

While IR Next comes with Ctt support, seems to be off the place for UKS. So, I re-positioned those along robotic line of tech tree branches:

Thanks. 

 

On 7/15/2019 at 3:48 AM, firefly_t said:

Firstly, thank you for a great mod. It has encouraged me to get back into playing KSP, as I always played with Unmanned Before Manned.

May I politely request for mod support to be added for OPT Space Plane, please? This really helps fill the tech tree out and provides some later game options and fun choices :)

Thank you in advance!

Now that I have a computer with 32gb RAM and @JadeOfMaar has released a lovely update of OPT, this will be coming in the future.

 

On 8/12/2019 at 7:19 AM, baldamundo said:

Really enjoying this - really good to have a successor to SETI!

Would be great to have a config for Tantares.

Noted.

 

On 1/24/2020 at 9:49 PM, venturaguy101 said:

@theonegalen I noticed with 1.1 you changed the CustomBarnKit.cfg to increase the part limit instead of the disabled config which switches the costs of the VAB/SPH and the launchpad/runway.  The documentation on the thread has not been updated to reflect this change.  Might be nice to have the costs switch option available in the current version.

Also it would be nice to have a repo where some community and incomplete config files for other mods could be placed and shared with the community.  Maybe help from the community could add more support for additional mods.

I like the version where you get a couple of extra parts. It just doesn't make sense for it to be more expensive to enlarge a runway vs building a new VAB/SPH. I can put the old version with a .bak file if you want to update it. P.S. @severedsolo, the next version has a :NEEDS[!Bureaucracy] in the CustomBarnKit.cfg.

 

On 1/28/2020 at 8:47 AM, vardicd said:

I have a question, and forgive me if its been addressed somewhere and I've missed the answer,

I've been playing with the mod for a while now, and have come to realize  The LV-T05 and LV-T10 never show up in my game, I'm using restock/restock+ and wondering if the model changes in those mods might have something to do with it, or if anyone has any idea why this could be happening

 

On 2/11/2020 at 1:18 PM, dylsh said:

I am trying to use this mod, alongside ReStock, and Restock+. Yet I start off with no engines, and there isnt an engine available until Tier 3?

 

On 6/23/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nistenf said:

I'm using 1.9.1 with Restock 1.1.2 and the two engines added by UKS don't show up in the game at all. According to the log, the game can't find the model the original model Squad from the copied part. Since I'm using Restock, that makes sense, due to its blacklisting of stock assets. After whitelisting the model, the engine shows up. That was not satisfactory though, I wanted the Restock model to be used for the new parts to keep consistency.

Fixed in next version.

 

On 11/10/2019 at 5:24 AM, njd80 said:

If you use ReStockPlus, the new version deprecates the Mallet and the Striker, because KSP 1.8 adds the Mite and the Shrimp.
So - you are left with zero propulsion options in the Start and BasicRocketry tech tree nodes.

Fixed in next version.

 

On 11/17/2019 at 11:37 AM, avalancha said:

Hello @SpinkAkron, I'd like to make a suggestion for the tech tree. In my current playthrough, I was a bit surprised to suddenly get the new "Pollux", which is an 1,875m solid booster from the... Making History I think... DLC. It sits in "Heavy Rocketry", together with the thumper, which is a bit out of place I think :D It looked really funny when I was recently struggling to get a craft off the ground and thought "hey, let's slap two SRBs on", and the first one I clicked suddenly occupiued the whole screen and was bigger than the rest of my craft :D

I think letting players struggle with 1.25 a bit is really important, and as such the Pollux comes too early, it's like cheating at that moment, because it can get anything off the ground and almost into orbit by itself at that point

Pollux isn't currently included in the Making History config - I'll make sure it gets placed into a proper spot. (Fixed in next version)

 

On 11/18/2019 at 9:24 PM, Gordon Dry said:

@SpinkAkron this project really could need a Github repo

As I've taken it over, here it is: https://github.com/theonegalen/UnKerballedStart/

 

On 2/6/2020 at 10:51 AM, Crixomix said:

Hello again. First of all, thank you much for your mod! Very appreciated, I've been enjoying playing through it so far along with the rest of my mod soup.

However, I've noticed a couple items in some of my mods that, given your other balances, seem a bit out of place. Space-Y's two mods (heavy lifters and expanded), as well as Nertea's Cryo Engines + tanks mods.

I can provide my version of a suggested place for the different engines, if you would like some ideas.

Thanks,

Please do. Feel free recommend them here or open an issue on the Github.

 

On 2/16/2020 at 9:38 PM, flart said:
  • Are you sure CBK patch should be there? It's helpful, I am having similar patch at local folder for larger systems, but how it related to the "Unkerballed Start"?

Thanks for the suggestions. The CBK patch is to give players a little more wiggle room as the early progression is intended to prompt the player to cluster engines and unlock smaller fuel tanks, especially when playing with unlock costs and reduced funding. I've put your code into various issues on github so I don't forget it.

 

On 2/20/2020 at 9:58 PM, EchoLima said:

Config for CryoEngines.

I'm not very good at balancing so you may want to look over this before using it.

Thank you!

 

On 5/11/2020 at 1:16 AM, theersink said:

Unfortunately due to the recent updates to many part mods, Ven's, restock ect. this mod probably needs a major update to fix some issues with placement of parts due to callbacks of some mods. Ven's and Restock are the  major. I have tried to track down where the issues are but I am not a modder. Hopefully we can get an update that addresses this. IIt is my favorite tech tree mod but I just can't do without some of the other mods this does not play well with.

In addition, I see the AIES mod has been revived. Would love to see support for it as well. That was a staple back before it died. Lots of good engines and ant. parts.

Restock will work on the next version. I don't use Ven's or AIES personally, do you have suggestions? If so, please make them here or on github: https://github.com/theonegalen/UnKerballedStart/issues/14

 

On 6/4/2020 at 3:50 AM, Corax said:

One thing though that I'd like to put forward for consideration is swapping the positions of solar panels and fuel cells.
Currently photovoltaics are unlocked before fuel cells, while I think at least from a gameplay perspective if not entirely historically accurate, it would make more sense the other way around–once you have solar panels, there's no real need to futz with fuel cells with their limited lifespan and considerable mass penalties.
And who knows how technology progressed in Kerbal history anyways.

Thanks. I've taken over the mod, and I'll consider this for my 2.0 version.

 

On 11/18/2019 at 7:28 AM, RoboRay said:

I also think sorting the SRB and tank parts into tech tree nodes by diameter would work nicely.   Right now, it seems like you unlock a tech node and get the shortest tanks in two or three different diameters, then unlock the next node and get the next longer lengths for those same diameters.  So, you end up cobbling rockets together from lots of short tanks and never using the longer ones because you've moved on to larger diameter tanks by the time you unlock the long ones.  Having to use lots of short tanks isn't a difficulty challenge...  it's just an annoyance for aesthetics and artificially inflates the needed part count for a craft.

If you want to retain length progression with the tanks, I would still suggest sticking to one diameter per tech node.  So, you would end up with something like:

Short 1.25m tanks > Long 1.25m tanks > Short 1.875m tanks > Long 1.875m tanks > Short 2.5m tanks > Long 2.5m tanks > etc.

Keeping the little probe tanks off in a parallel side node still make sense.

The excellent RP-1 tech tree is structured something like this and it plays through very nicely.

I think I actually agree with you. Now that I'm taking over UKS completely, I think I might do this for 2.0.

 

On 8/4/2019 at 4:55 AM, FreeThinker said:

Another suggestion I would recommend is to add specializedPlasmaGeneration as additional tech requirement to  exoticFusionRockets, as the tech represent a merge between Fusion Engines, Exotic Fusion Reactions and Specialized Plasma Engines. Also because "Specialized Plasma  Generation", logicly requires advances in "High Energy Science" (for PLasma Wakefield Accelerator Engine), I recommend adding it as an addition requirement for Specialized Plasma  Generation. Additionaly add a requirement for Advanced Fusion Reactions to Advanced Fusion Engine which realy requires it. This result in the following endgame tree.

Something to consider for 2.0.

 

On 6/7/2020 at 2:56 PM, A lazy noob said:

for those of us using the "simple adjustable fairings" mod: here you go

Thanks. I don't use SAF, so I'll include this in the version after today's.

 

On 8/10/2020 at 2:54 AM, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Great to see that this is seeing new patches still! Since @Beetlecat is doing bdb, I'll do tantares, knes, luciole, cre, mj, cnar, x-20 -- basically everything I have installed. It sounds like a lot, but it's just an afternoon.

 

On 8/10/2020 at 10:56 AM, Beetlecat said:

Not too loud, or people might hold us to this! :D

https://github.com/theonegalen/UnKerballedStart/issues;)

Edited by theonegalen

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Posted (edited)

This is totally great!

I'm suddenly completely caught up in my org now that we're able to reopen to the public, so my "free time" as it were is less flexible for the next weeks. :) But I would love to take on some attempts at tweaking things like CNAR maybe even BDB --though that is such a HUGE mod. :D

Edited by Beetlecat

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9 minutes ago, theonegalen said:

Spink originally used :FOR[zzzUnkerballedStart] in order to make sure that the UKS patches ran after whatever part mods someone might have. I asked him to use :BEFORE[zzzUnkerballedStart] so that I could make the tree adaptive - using :AFTER[zzzUnkerballedStart] to move parts around depending on which mods someone had installed. The CustomBarnKit config has :FOR[zzzUnkerballedStart], which tells ModuleManager that it exists. Not sure where the zzz came from. I might try without it, but not in my first update.

The zzz thing is, by my guess, the widely accepted "best practice" by those who know not to use :FINAL. After all this time you can safely assume that :LAST is still obscure or practically privileged knowledge. In most cases only one z should be necessary but it easily gets overdone when you find yourself being aggressive in the fight to run last.

It's worth mentioning that :LAST should not work if the mod is not prior acknowledged by MM.

Side note/Re: OPT Continued, creating the stock subcategories config and the TETRIX Tech Tree configs for OPT has taught me to create (or at least, shown me the necessity of) a map in text that can be used by tech tree mods to more easily get a grasp of what parts there are and how they can be logically grouped.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

@Beetlecat I've done CNAR already.

haha, CNAR was the first thing I did yesterday. Capella parts in Start, Titov parts spread throughout Tier 2.

Edited by theonegalen

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Just now, theonegalen said:

haha, CNAR was the first thing I did yesterday. Capella parts in Start, Titov parts spread throughout Tier 2.

I did it a bit differently, with Titov (V2) parts in the start node, Capella (Bumper) in tier 2. Your choice though.

I forked your repo with some of the .cfgs I made. They rely on Spink's template, so I can change them if they don't match with the new syntax, or if they are not quite in agreement with the rest of the tree. I think I balanced them well, though.

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