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KSP Loading...KSP Enhanced Edition is getting some love


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@JadeOfMaar Okay, so let's assume they would revamp all other engines... again.

Any "outsider" looking at this 1.7 update (after all, it's probably a goal to get people interested in the game by redoing the meshes to be more appealing) would look at 1.7 as "The update that completely threw three versions worth of work out the window in favor of something established by merely two parts."

Makes a lot of sense to me, to scrap all revamps and do them anew. Again. After not having been in the game for long in the case of 1.6. After not a lot of time has passed.

"Well, here are some revamped parts! Whoops, here are the same parts, revamped again because we found a new art style and couldn't wait to make a new revamp after not even completing our current efforts!"
I'd personally feel rather fooled.
"You're kidding me, right?"

I guess that may actually kill Squad's business more than an inconsistent art style.

Edited by Delay
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3 minutes ago, Delay said:

@JadeOfMaar Okay, so let's assume they would revamp all other engines... again.

Any "outsider" looking at this 1.7 update (after all, it's probably a goal to get people interested in the game by redoing the meshes to be more appealing) would look at 1.7 as "The update that completely threw three versions worth of work out the window in favor of something established by merely two parts."

Makes a lot of sense to me, to scrap all revamps and do them anew. Again. After not having been in the game for long in the case of 1.6. After not a lot of time has passed.

"Well, here are some revamped parts! Whoops, here are the same parts, revamped again because we found a new art style and couldn't wait to make a new revamp after not even completing our current efforts!"
I'd personally feel rather fooled.
"You're kidding me, right?"

I guess that may actually kill Squad's business more than an inconsistent art style.

You're getting sooooo close to homing in on the root issue (that the quality should have been decided from the get-go and be consistent through the revamp)

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3 minutes ago, Delay said:

@JadeOfMaar Okay, so let's assume they would revamp all other engines... again.

Any "outsider" looking at this 1.7 update (after all, it's probably a goal to get people interested in the game by redoing the meshes to be more appealing) would look at 1.7 as "The update that completely threw three versions worth of work out the window in favor of something established by merely two parts."

Makes a lot of sense to me, to scrap all revamps and do them anew. Again. After not having been in the game for long in the case of 1.6. After not a lot of time has passed.

"Well, here are some revamped parts! Whoops, here are the same parts, revamped again because we found a new art style and couldn't wait to make a new revamp after not even completing our current efforts!"
I'd personally feel rather fooled.
"You're kidding me, right?"

I guess that may actually kill Squad's business more than an inconsistent art style.

Yeah, at my day job we call this "rework" and avoid it like the plague. It costs the company and by extension our customers money, eats dev time and we engineer very carefully to minimize it.

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4 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

You're getting sooooo close to homing in on the root issue (that the quality should have been decided from the get-go and be consistent through the revamp)

You want a revamp, with the current one not even done.

Don't begin a second time before finishing the first!

 

The question is whether or not revamping the parts for a second time is even lucrative. Is it worth the effort? The goal of the revamp is to update the parts that have been in the game for quite some time; to give them a facelift.

Edited by Delay
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2 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

to those of us who have very sharp eyes

I'm not picking on you Jade, at ALL, but a large percentage of players either can't tell the difference or don't care. Personally, I'm here for the physics, and I preferred the original art style to ALL of the revamps.

I appreciate the learned critiques and how they've been contributing to bettering the overall look of KSP, but I think the art pass is at best a tertiary concern over good gameplay mechanics. IMO, Career and Science modes need to be thrown out entirely and redone from the ground up. Not going to happen, but that's my opinion. The best I can hope for is some attention paid to where KSP engineering best practices diverge wildly from the intuitive solution.

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I did. So, what's your solution to the problem?

 

My personal favorite is stop revamping. That way Squad couldn't do anything wrong, there'd be no one to upset with poor quality, and no one would complain about too-good quality.

...Except for those who'd then demand a part revamp, and the cycle restarts. It's a never-ending parade of complaints, this part revamp.

 

Also, and I don't want to accuse anyone of anything here, but could the fact that Squad's doing these revamps be a factor as well? I.e. "Squad made it, therefore it's bad, inconsistent and should be scrutinized to the finest imaginable degree to make sure than every insignificantly tiny error is spotted and whined about"?

By the looks of things I could make a simple 48-vertex cylinder in Blender, use material colors and no textures, sell it as a revamped fuel tank and would get not even close to that many complaints!

Edited by Delay
Happy?
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3 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

I'm not picking on you Jade, at ALL, but a large percentage of players either can't tell the difference or don't care. Personally, I'm here for the physics, and I preferred the original art style to ALL of the revamps.

I appreciate the learned critiques and how they've been contributing to bettering the overall look of KSP, but I think the art pass is at best a tertiary concern over good gameplay mechanics. IMO, Career and Science modes need to be thrown out entirely and redone from the ground up. Not going to happen, but that's my opinion. The best I can hope for is some attention paid to where KSP engineering best practices diverge wildly from the intuitive solution.

I agree that the actual gameplay (past the basic gameplay loop of build>fly, that only lasts you so long) needs a ton of work, but that's not the problem of the part artists. I personally would love some fundamental changes to the way Career/Science work though, right now they feel patchwork with the way they've been implemented over the years with no long term design goal (that I can discern).

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6 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I agree that the actual gameplay (past the basic gameplay loop of build>fly, that only lasts you so long) needs a ton of work, but that's not the problem of the part artists. I personally would love some fundamental changes to the way Career/Science work though, right now they feel patchwork with the way they've been implemented over the years with no long term design goal (that I can discern).

Yeah, the only way I've personally kept the career loop alive is by adding and engineering my own limitations, and having to do missions to other planets out of pocket.

 

On a more topical note, the ant and the spider look great! I love that "keep away from face" label, and the bare variants for both! The gimbal actuators on the spider (and lack thereof on the ant) are great! They really look up to the task of being satellite engines!

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Oh wow, those revamps look amazing! Especially the bare variant of the Spider.

 

1 hour ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Also... I saw that little bit about the new launch pad for console... Any idea when that might come to PC? (Yes, I know about Making History. Read the bit in the OP again before you try to tell me about the fact that there are multiple launch sites already... You'll see which one I'm talking about.) 

Oh wow, I missed that! That is.... Interesting. But I would have a lot of fun with it! Hoping that we PC players will get access to it soon(TM).

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39 minutes ago, DragonsForce said:

Oh wow, I missed that! That is.... Interesting. But I would have a lot of fun with it! Hoping that we PC players will get access to it soon(TM).

Weird I missed it too! A Munar launchsite?! 

 

Also, I said it for 1.6 and I’ll say it again for 1.7: I think all of these previewed part revamps are excellent. The shiny metallic look of some makes perfect sense to me because their old counterparts were metallic too. Complainers will comment and celebrators won’t, so here’s a celebrator breaking the mold. Keep it up @SQUAD

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70 new parts....  ermergerd I’m drooling. And I get to use a seat instead of a command pod?!? I can easily throw away another thousand hours on KSP on console when this update comes out. Just please please please take your sweet time doing QA. I really can’t handle having my heart broken again.

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2 hours ago, Poodmund said:

But its the responsibilty of an Art Director to ensure that situations like this do not occur... you tell one party to either step up their game or the other to fall in line with the more basic standard being set.

 

 

Is there currently an Art Director at Squad?  I know Leticia was some manner of art team lead (I recall this being said during the MH launch stream), but I believe she has leftDo we know if anyone has replaced her?
I guess the art lead is a fellow named Rafael Gonzales.

Spoiler

1MEUZhR.jpg


 

 

Edited by klesh
added some screenshots
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2 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

I appreciate the learned critiques and how they've been contributing to bettering the overall look of KSP, but I think the art pass is at best a tertiary concern over good gameplay mechanics.

Most people under value how much value they actually do place on visuals and sound.  When visuals and sound are consistent and well done, they can almost become invisible.  When they're bad, such as mistimed foot steps or spikes and drops in volume, or a poorly rendered blue genie, they become extremely noticeable to the viewer.  I'd even argue that inconsistent visuals give a (sometimes unconscious) sense of...amateur quality to a product.

The whole "graphics don't matter" mantra has never flown very far with me.

Sometimes I wish I was better at expressing these types of things...

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