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High-Occupancy Mun Lander Challenge


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I sent 24 Kerbals to land on the Mun and Minimus for less that 100,000 roots.  The mission could have been optimized a little better.  The biggest hiccup I ran into was keeping my electricity and coms up and running especially during aerobraking.  The primary launch stage was a twin boar and 6 kickbacks, it could have been optimized a little further.  The upper stage of the mission is all performed with a single poodle engine.

I went to the Mun first and left a fuel tank in orbit.  After the Mun landing I rendezvoused with it and refueled.  On the way back from Minimus I did a gravity slingshot off the Mun and dropped into a much lower orbit with an aerobraking periapsis.  I didn't do it carefully enough to get close to KSP, but landed somewhere random on Kerbin.  I had about 140 m/s of dV left at the end of the mission which I used to cushion my landing.  

Spoiler

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Edited by farmerben
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  • 2 weeks later...

LEADERBOARD

  1. @farmerben = 245
    1. + 100 (land on both)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 95 ((24-5 = 19 extra occupants) * 5)
    4. + 30 (costs less than $100K)
  2. @Martian Emigrant and @FuzzyHead= 165
    1. + 100 (land on both)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 15 ((8-5 = 3 extra occupants) * 5)
      1. @Martian Emigrant has 8 seats
      2. @FuzzyHead has 2 x Mk. 2 crew cabins
    4. + 30 (costs less than $100K)
  3. @Johnster_Space_Program = 165
    1. + 50 (orbit Minmus and land on Mun)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 75 ((20-5 = 15 extra occupants) * 5)
    4. + 20 (costs between $100K and $400K)

 

Here's a list of what I'm lacking from the following entries. Just address these on this forum and you're all set for a spot on the scoreboard.

  • @MarvinKitFox: you gave me a picture of the lander on the Mun and its passenger capacity. As soon as you give show evidence about its cost and performance, you'll slingshot ahead of @farmerben thanks to capacity points alone {[(75-5=70) * 5 = 350] + 20 baseline = 370 pts}.
    • Moreover, you're automatically disqualified if anyone dies (e.g. during re-entry) or gets stranded.
  • @dnbattley: you have given me your craft's capacity and cost, but no information on what it can do? Can it orbit the Mun and land on Minmus, vice versa, or can it land on BOTH?
  • @Rocket In My Pocket: Looking at the other entries, it seems like you've got the #1 spot in the bag: {[(112 capacity-5) * 5] + 20 baseline = 555} + (15 for cost>$400K) = 570 pts. However, what is it capable of? Can you only land on one moon and orbit the other before safely returning home (yes, moon names matter), or can your MunLiner land on both?
    • I also hope you have a plan to send all 112 kerbals back home alive.
    • Even if you don't have that many kerbals, you can't afford to lose any crew/passenger modules.
  • @sollarflare: Congrats on landing your craft on both the Mun and Minmus (automatic 100 points right there), but how much does it cost? How many people can it transport?
    • Also, looking at the upper left corners of the pictures in imgur gallery you posted, why does it take +2 years to do a simple Mun and Minmus mission? Am I missing something?
  • @KingDominoIII: Great job on your craft; (100 for double-landing) + (20 baseline) + ((12 - 5 = 7 extra occupants) * 5) = 155 points. All you're lacking to complete the challenge is the craft's cost.
    • Even in Sandbox mode, the craft has the cost displayed.

8LDhYVP.jpg

If you want to be on the leaderboard, I'll need numbers such as: the cost and passenger capacity. I will also need video/photo evidence of your craft in action. You may have a juicy slice of pie, but it's merely a slice. If you present the whole thing, then you can get your score.

 

Thank you.

Edited by Mars-Bound Hokie
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19 minutes ago, Mars-Bound Hokie said:

 

  • @Rocket In My Pocket: Looking at the other entries, it seems like you've got the #1 spot in the bag: {[(112 capacity-5) * 5] + 20 baseline = 555} + (15 for cost>$400K) = 570 pts. However, what is it capable of? Can you only land on one moon and orbit the other before safely returning home (yes, moon names matter), or can your MunLiner land on both?
    • I also hope you have a plan to send all 112 kerbals back home alive.
    • Even if you don't have that many kerbals, you can't afford to lose any crew/passenger modules.

I tested it launching from Kerbin, landing on the Mun, and returning basically, and my plan was just to orbit Minmus after/before and return. May need more tweaks for that though, haven't tested that portion.

Well, it was empty while testing, and I'm not sure how I'd actually fill it if that's a requirement? I don't have that many Kerbals lol. However, actually having them onboard wouldn't change anything so I don't see why that should matter. Your challenge though, your rules; let me know.

The entire thing de-orbits safely, and lands with everything that you see orbiting the mun in the one screen shot from my last post. It goes nose first with an inflatable heatshield and then turns around after heating and deploys parachutes/legs. (If I recall correctly, on my test run; I did lose a couple landing legs to heat I think? But it had enough left to land upright.)

As I said in my post; I really don't know if I'll have time to actually finish your challenge, but I'd like to do so, and would like to record the whole thing and upload a nice video if I can. I appreciate your interest, and the fun I've already had so far with your challenge!

Edited by Rocket In My Pocket
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21 minutes ago, Mars-Bound Hokie said:

@sollarflare: Congrats on landing your craft on both the Mun and Minmus (automatic 100 points right there), but how much does it cost? How many people can it transport?

  • Also, looking at the upper left corners of the pictures in imgur gallery you posted, why does it take +2 years to do a simple Mun and Minmus mission? Am I missing something?

It can carry 8 Kerbals and it costs $635,300. I have no idea why it took that long. 

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22 hours ago, Mars-Bound Hokie said:

@dnbattley: you have given me your craft's capacity and cost, but no information on what it can do? Can it orbit the Mun and land on Minmus, vice versa, or can it land on BOTH?

Per the KES readout, the craft should have a 3,500 dV capacity after reaching LKO, which should be comfortably enough to land on one and fly by the other, but landing on both would probably be pushing it. However, I'm happy to review and submit (and looking at your scoring methodology I think I was far too focussed on staying under 100k, since the penalties for going over that limit are tiny - especially when compared with the advantages of carrying a legion of tourists...).

I'll review and properly submit this weekend if family commitments permit me the chance.

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10 minutes ago, dnbattley said:

craft should have a 3,500 dV capacity after reaching LKO

@dnbattley, according to the Delta-V planner and Transfer Window timer, you should be able to land on both. However, as the ideal sum total of required delta-V is 3,444 m/s, you're right when you say that trying to land on both would be pushing it. I think it's best if you played it safe and only landed on one and orbiting the other; don't expect the ideal outcome.

  • That doesn't mean you can't try
  • (LKO --> Mun's Surface = 1930) + (Mun's Surface --> 14 km = 640) + (14 km Mun --> 10 km Minmus = 294) + (10 km Minmus --> Minmus Surface = 200) + (Minmus Surface --> 10 km Minmus = 200) + (10 km Minmus --> Kerbin surface = 180) = 3,444 m/s
    • Definitely pushing it.
    • I'm predicting you playing it safe and landing on the Mun and orbiting Minmus before returning (yes, it matters what moons you orbit and land on), but I could be wrong.
      • If you can land on the Mun and orbit Minmus, then you can definitely do the other way around.

 

I can't wait to see what you can do. Already, you're set to receive at least 105 points. All I need is a performance report, and you'll have your spot on the leaderboard.

  • + 55 ((16-5 = 11 extra passengers) * 5)
  • + 20 (baseline)
  • + 30 (costs less than $100)
    • Sidenote, if you spent a little more money on fuel, you may have a shot at having more than enough delta-V to land on both moons - which would land you a whopping 100 points.

 

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On 3/29/2019 at 7:32 PM, Mars-Bound Hokie said:

I'm predicting you playing it safe

Clever reverse psychology. I like it.

Update: mission completed. No additional fuel needed. Landed on both Mun and Minmus and returned near to KSC safely. Single-take video (no quicksave/loads - one pause mid way through due to toddler intervention) in 16x speed will be uploaded shortly. I hope to get extra points for my rather exciting Mun landing ;)

Et voila: 

 

Edited by dnbattley
mission update
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(UPDATED) LEADERBOARD

  1. @farmerben = 245
    1. + 100 (land on both)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 95 ((24-5 = 19 extra occupants) * 5)
    4. + 30 (costs less than $100K)
  2. @dnbattley = 205
    1. + 100 (land on both)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 55 ((16-5 = 11 extra occupants) * 5)
    4. + 30 (costs less than 100K)
  3. @KingDominoIII = 170
    1. + 100 (land on both)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 35 ((12-5 = 7 extra occupants) * 5)
    4. + 15 (costs over $400K)
  4. @Martian Emigrant and @FuzzyHead= 165
    1. + 100 (land on both)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 15 ((8-5 = 3 extra occupants) * 5)
      1. @Martian Emigrant has 8 seats
      2. @FuzzyHead has 2 x Mk. 2 crew cabins
    4. + 30 (costs less than $100K)
  5. @Johnster_Space_Program = 165
    1. + 50 (orbit Minmus and land on Mun)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 75 ((20-5 = 15 extra occupants) * 5)
    4. + 20 (costs between $100K and $400K)
  6. @sollarflare = 150
    1. + 100 (land on both)
    2. + 20 (baseline)
    3. + 15 ((8-5 = 3 extra occupants) * 5)
    4. + 15 (costs over $400K)

 

LACKING

  • @Rocket In My Pocket
    • Can it orbit one moon and land on the other, or can it land on both?
    • Already, capacity alone will get him in the top spot. It also test-landed without losing any crew modules.
  • @MarvinKitFox
    • What is it capable of? Can it land on only one moon and orbit the other, or can it land on both? Yes, it matters which moon you land on and which one you orbit.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

@dnbattley I think I can squeeze a bit more out of my NERVA upper stage design.  However the launcher will need to change from Twin Bore to Kodiak engines to stay under K100,000 at launch.  This would appear to be plagiarism, since I note that you use Kodiaks in your design.  With your permission (to use Kodiaks) I will have one more attempt at fine tuning my design.

Edit:  On second thought, your launcher is just too good to fine-tune further.  So I will just tip my hat to you and say"  "Well played".

Edited by jinnantonix
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3 hours ago, jinnantonix said:

@dnbattley I think I can squeeze a bit more out of my NERVA upper stage design.  However the launcher will need to change from Twin Bore to Kodiak engines to stay under K100,000 at launch.  This would appear to be plagiarism, since I note that you use Kodiaks in your design.  With your permission (to use Kodiaks) I will have one more attempt at fine tuning my design.

Edit:  On second thought, your launcher is just too good to fine-tune further.  So I will just tip my hat to you and say"  "Well played".

You are too kind, but nevertheless free to try if you so wish... The twin boar "upgrade" to ADTP+kodiak is now a big part of my strategy, and a huge advantage for approaching cost based challenges, which I only discovered when researching the low cost Laythe challenge elsewhere on the forums, but I cannot claim any ownership over it...

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62 seats, both moons, and under 100k funds: https://imgur.com/a/8qFirGB

The non-ISRU design that I never ran but should have worked had around 50 seats. I also designed a ~110 seat one with command seats but @dnbattley and @jinnantonix weren't using them so I decided to ditch it.

6L0xw8c.jpg

Edited by bayesian_acolyte
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Non-entry, but insofar as people might be looking at this thread for inspiration I think it's worthwhile:

Touri-16.jpg

Ripping off @dnbattley with gusto. TWR fully sufficient for the Mun, CoM is at the height of the lander can. On entry it's aerodynamically stable in a forward attitude and only turns around once the cutes come out; heat resistance is sufficient for a Minmus return, and in case of splashdown the lander can remains high and dry.

So all in all, it's pretty easy to fly.

I'm doing this in an actual career context. Using actual pilots so i don't have to bother setting up relays; also, the pilot can get out and plant a flag for extra rewards. So far I've never had more than 15 customers at a time, so I'm content with the capacity. Currently available tech doesn't include large fairings, hence the strange setup... stability is not an issue, but drag is horrible.

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