A "KSP Loading..." Preview: The Mun Launch Site (KSP Enhanced Edition)

[Redneck]

On 2/28/2019 at 3:13 PM, Barzon Kerman said:

Awesome! Now I really want the console version.

dont do it!!!! On another note I would rather build my own base on the moon (PC version). Still waiting on that Extended IVA where we can move around inside of our ships 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Redneck

[OHara]

The question is whether having a Mun launch site, in the same list as the planet-side sites Island, Dessert, and Woomerang, is a nice thing. 

Many good reviews of KSP emphasize the feeling of achievement of getting to the Mun https://www.pcgamer.com/what-no-mans-sky-could-learn-about-exploration-from-kerbal-space-program/

Having the Konami-code debug-menu with its "set orbit" is very helpful for testing the in-space legs of whatever I'm trying to do in KSP.  Somehow, putting "set orbit" in a separate category makes a psychological difference; the goal to fly the whole mission is still just as rewarding. 

Some method to set craft on other bodies' surfaces would be useful for players, and the Mission Builder is too complicated and tedious for console (as it is on PC for this purpose).  Maybe we can get an option for off-planet bases as an explicit choice of the player, not grouped with on-Kerbin bases.

Edited March 4, 2019 by OHara
speling

[jojo5144]

we support the game on pc since the beginning. I buy the game and the extention. 
please give me the launch site on the mun . snif

 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by jojo5144

[NoMrBond]

The launch site positioning in general seems like it's begging for customization option (the system could start with the defaults for the present KSC, Island, Woomerang etc included as the defaults)

Being able to build structures and position them on planetary bodies would be nice, even being able to lay flat concrete foundations

Could need certain seed resources (mining gear and other supplies) to be flown out to the site to set up extra ones in career mode

[Chel]

Launch site on Jool when?

[sicko kerman]

On 2/28/2019 at 4:00 PM, SQUAD said:

Coming to KSP Enhanced Edition’s first DLC: the History and Parts Pack - we present you the new Mun Launch Site, not currently available on PC. Console players will be able to select this complex or 3 additional ones(the Woomerang Launchsite, the Dessert Complex and the Island Runway) directly from the VAB or SPH.

ok does anyone know when the console update might come out

 

 

[Tyko]

If I were a console player I wouldn’t see this as “throwing me a bone” or giving me something better.

I’d feel more cheated because all I’d want is feature parity with the PC game and instead of figuring out how to deliver that they throw out a cheap immersion breaking toy. Just because someone is on a console doesn’t mean they want the easy way out or that they shouldn’t be taken seriously. 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Tyko

[Lisias]

23 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Just because someone is on a console doesn’t mean they want the easy way out or that they shouldn’t be taken seriously. 

It's exactly the other way around.

Console Players get stable, ironed versions after being tested on the field on the PC. You can't crash on a heavily certified environment without some consequences from the licensor - and that's the main reason modding are forbidden land on Consoles (Microsoft is willing to change that, let's see how much time until a kid being exposed to something nasty). 

You can't have the cake and eat it too. Or, as we say on Slashdot: "Cheap, Fast, Good. Pick two."

[Jebediah Kerman Jr.]

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

It's exactly the other way around.

Console Players get stable, ironed versions after being tested on the field on the PC.

You think that Enhanced Edition is stable? There are 10+ egregious bugs I encounter every day (command seat rovers exploding, broken EVA, space stations shaking to pieces, to name a few), and hundreds of smaller ones. We don't get our bugs fixed until the next decennial console update. If they don't fix a bug then, we have to wait another 10 years. 

[Tyko]

26 minutes ago, Lisias said:

53 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Just because someone is on a console doesn’t mean they want the easy way out or that they shouldn’t be taken seriously. 

It's exactly the other way around.

Console Players get stable, ironed versions after being tested on the field on the PC. You can't crash on a heavily certified environment without some consequences from the licensor - and that's the main reason modding are forbidden land on Consoles (Microsoft is willing to change that, let's see how much time until a kid being exposed to something nasty). 

You can't have the cake and eat it too. Or, as we say on Slashdot: "Cheap, Fast, Good. Pick two."

With respect, i was referring to the challenge level of the game and I think that was clear from the context of the rest of my post. I wasn't talking about bugs or game stability.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Tyko

[Deddly]

15 hours ago, sicko kerman said:

ok does anyone know when the console update might come out

Nobody knows yet, sorry. They'll surely announce it when that information becomes public.

[Loskene]

2 hours ago, Tyko said:

With respect, i was referring to the challenge level of the game

Which is irrelevant, as the player decides upon their own level of challenge each time they start a game, and can change it at any time. [snip]

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, Jebediah Kerman Jr. said:

You think that Enhanced Edition is stable? There are 10+ egregious bugs I encounter every day (command seat rovers exploding, broken EVA, space stations shaking to pieces, to name a few), and hundreds of smaller ones. We don't get our bugs fixed until the next decennial console update. If they don't fix a bug then, we have to wait another 10 years. 

I have to handle two or three catastrophic ones only on TweakScale alone.  Nasty stuff, you had to manually inspect (and edit) craft and savegames to detect the problem. Do you have access to the savegame files on your console? Yep - I think now you understand.

I had some nasty bugs on more than one game on console gaming. GTA4 has some, Assassin Creed I (and II) had some others. Some were funny, some crashed the game. But none of them corrupted the savegame.

It's understandable the grief for the current bugs. And that's exactly the reason I don't understand such desire for more bugs.   Sometimes, we need to stop everything and count our blessings. 

[Delay]

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

I have to handle two or three catastrophic ones only on TweakScale alone.  Nasty stuff, you had to manually inspect (and edit) craft and savegames to detect the problem. Do you have access to the savegame files on your console? Yep - I think now you understand.

I had some nasty bugs on more than one game on console gaming. GTA4 has some, Assassin Creed I (and II) had some others. Some were funny, some crashed the game. But none of them corrupted the savegame.

It's understandable the grief for the current bugs. And that's exactly the reason I don't understand such desire for more bugs.   Sometimes, we need to stop everything and count our blessings. 

 

1 minute ago, Lisias said:

GTA4 has some,

Didn't the PC version of Vice City have a file-corrupting bug? The game would always crash after a certain point, making progress impossible.

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, Tyko said:

With respect, i was referring to the challenge level of the game and I think that was clear from the context of the rest of my post. I wasn't talking about bugs or game stability.

I didn't meant to contradict you. I think I didn't evaluate my line of arguing enough. Sorry,

[Lisias]

8 hours ago, Lisias said:

I had some nasty bugs on more than one game on console gaming. GTA4 has some, Assassin Creed I (and II) had some others. Some were funny, some crashed the game. But none of them corrupted the savegame.

I just got into this:

https://kotaku.com/anthem-players-say-the-game-is-shutting-down-and-even-s-1833039161/amp

Nasty stuff. The console "bricks" until you pull it off from the power line. Some people were crying that their console were damaged due this.

I think this is more like the firmware exacerbating a game bug (looks like a watch dog acting to prevent something worse, and then anothet fail safe acting to prevent the console booting after a damaging crash, what would make things worse - perhaps both of them overreacting a bit on this case), but yet, you don't pay premium to get exposed to this kind of stunt.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Lisias
Typing on mobile is tragic.

[sicko kerman]

10 hours ago, Deddly said:

Nobody knows yet, sorry. They'll surely announce it when that information becomes public.

ok thank you

 

[Majorjim!]

13 hours ago, Lisias said:

It's exactly the other way around.

Console Players get stable, ironed versions after being tested on the field on the PC.

LOL, you haven’t seen the console support forum have you. 

[Lisias]

On 3/5/2019 at 4:14 AM, Majorjim! said:

LOL, you haven’t seen the console support forum have you. 

I think you should expand your horizons, and see also the support forum for the remaining versions, and also for some other projects based on Unity.

In the mean time, talk with someone on the industry and ask about the costs of issuing a Console release for PS4 and XBox One. Ask about the certification and publishing process. And since Squad is not an independent developer anymore, such costs is now on Take Two Interactive level.

Now ask about publishing fees, ask how many customers are buying the console version: and then you can infer how much money ends up on the Squad's budget.

Now we get to the magical word: Budget. Someone has to fund the development, and the features are priorized to keep the budget being fed - "No Money, No Buck Rogers": money talks.

Now take a read on this page. And you will learn that Squad is not the one issuing the Console releases. They're more as content developers, not exact game publishers. So it's up to TTI to hire Blitworks again for this project ("KSP Enhanced Enhanced Edition"), pay all the costs, and just then they will have a new download available on PSN and start to see the colour of the money.

Now consider that Console usually has way less memory and CPU power available than PCs that are usually used here.

XBox One is not bad, 8GB/RAM and 8 cores. But that cores are clocked to 1.75MHz. It's not too bad, but you have to make your game heavily multithreaded in order to take advantage of all that cores. PS4 is approximately the same (only a bit less fast). Both consoles have a "Pro" version, bumping the CPU speed to 2.13 to 2.3 GHz. (Guess what… My MacPotato is faster than that, besides having way less cores).

Interesting enough KSP is flirting with multithreading only on 1.4 and forward (it's one of the reasons a lot of Add'Ons borked on the transition, it appears to me). And yet, performance issues are still perceivable (mainly due the garbage collector - and God knowns what Unity did on the garbage collector on the XBox and PS4 runtimes).

Considering that they took the whole 1.4 series in order to have a stable game (really materialized only on 1.5.1, with some performance improvements being applied effectively only on 1.6.1), now try to imagine all that costs if they did that on Console.

A good place to start reading on the subject:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/new-tech-is-great-but-how-much-will-it-cost-to-make-a-playstation-4-game/

Edited March 20, 2019 by Lisias
tasting my own medicine :)

[basic.syntax]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 6:53 PM, NoMrBond said:

The launch site positioning in general seems like it's begging for customization option ....  Being able to build structures and position them on planetary bodies would be nice, even being able to lay flat concrete foundations .... 

Perhaps if Squad decides KSP needs more end game activities, and Roverdude got approval - "USI Colonization" into stock? Way off topic for this thread   But I know the feeling, based on one picture we easily fall into "what-if" games  

[klesh]

I'm leary of surface bases until the highest voted bug on the tracker gets fixed: 

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16159

[Lisias]

49 minutes ago, klesh said:

I'm leary of surface bases until the highest voted bug on the tracker gets fixed: 

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16159

It was fixed on 1.4.1, so...

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16159#note-21

[klesh]

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

It was fixed on 1.4.1, so...

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16159#note-21

 

...note 22 says its still happening from 1 month ago.  Note 19 also states it is present in 1.4.5.

That is one of the more frustrating elements to the bugtracker.  The QA team doesn't really maintain it in a way that helps other users know whats going on.  That issue was never set to ready to test, which would signal people to test it, and thusly never set to resolved by any users, and thusly never set to closed by a QA member.  

[Lisias]

56 minutes ago, klesh said:

...note 22 says its still happening from 1 month ago.  Note 19 also states it is present in 1.4.5.

Evidences of the problem? It appears to be working fine on my Vanilla KSP (yes, I had tried before posting).

[EDIT : I tested on 1.6.1 and on 1.4.5 - no issues.]

Without further evidences, they are empty claims on my book.

 

56 minutes ago, klesh said:

That is one of the more frustrating elements to the bugtracker.  The QA team doesn't really maintain it in a way that helps other users know whats going on.  That issue was never set to ready to test, which would signal people to test it, and thusly never set to resolved by any users, and thusly never set to closed by a QA member.  

On that, I agree with you. The BugTracker is also a P/R tool, and as such should be handled. Netscape, and now Mozilla, has a something to teach on the subject.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79705

Edited March 5, 2019 by Lisias
moar testing

[Jacke]

4 hours ago, klesh said:

I'm leary of surface bases until the highest voted bug on the tracker gets fixed: 

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/16159

I'm of the gut feel that this bug or something very like it is still happening.

But we're going to need a near-stock or better stock savegame or better a craft that can demonstrate it on KSP 1.6.1.  Come on, someone has to have one.