SQUAD

A "KSP Loading..." Preview: The Mun Launch Site (KSP Enhanced Edition)

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Nice layout for the launch site. But it does need some type of large building for rocket storage.

48 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

If Squad is interesting in adding launch sites to other bodies, why not make a real expansion pack out of it? Involving actual base building, refining of resources, etc. Like a boosted version of Extraplanetary Launchpads, but letting the user eventually place real PQSCity buildings and use other worlds as space centers.

I'd buy it if released as an DLC.

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heck yes GregroxMun! that is a great idea! It could be like KK, but requires mining to get the resources to built the buildings!

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Another thing too will be that when this update releases, hopefully it will fix the dreaded EVA ladder bug. That's what stopped me from playing the game when I first encountered it

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Posted (edited)

I wouldn't mind launch sites becoming available on other bodies only AFTER you have performed an orbital survey, landed a surface scanner, performed all surface experiments, traversed X area on EVA for X days, landed a science lab, ore drill and processor, had to fuel your ships up using your ISRU refinery, and had to keep X number of engineers of five star experience on site to complete builds with habitation on site for all of them.

Edited by HvP

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1 hour ago, The Dunatian said:

Not good. Bad even, very bad. If Squad begins releasing DLCs that break the game balance and ruin the game for the rest of us I'm leaving. Not to mention the gigantic change in gameplay this will cause. Please

Hm. I don't care at all how someone else plays KSP. Not the slightest. Somebody finds fun in launching fireworks from the Mun, more power to 'em.

And another pad certainly wouldn't "break the balance" (there isn't any) or ruin the game. It's another pad. You're free to ignore it just like you probably ignore the Not-Rockmax Micronode or Dres. Or like I mostly ignore the "dessert" launch site except to wander around. And you're certainly free to leave.

Heck, I think there should be a launch site like this on Duna.

I do wish there was just a little more effort spent on it and the Woomerang base... more than the generic pad and a small amount of set dressing.

9 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Another thing too will be that when this update releases, hopefully it will fix the dreaded EVA ladder bug. That's what stopped me from playing the game when I first encountered it

I hope they fix (AGAIN) the problem worked-around by WorldStabilizer where probes leap to their deaths on low-gravity moons because they spawn slightly below the surface.

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10 minutes ago, GeneCash said:

Hm. I don't care at all how someone else plays KSP. Not the slightest. Somebody finds fun in launching fireworks from the Mun, more power to 'em.

And another pad certainly wouldn't "break the balance" (there isn't any) or ruin the game. It's another pad. You're free to ignore it just like you probably ignore the Not-Rockmax Micronode or Dres. Or like I mostly ignore the "dessert" launch site except to wander around. And you're certainly free to leave. 

It's pretty game/immersion breaking for a game that is fundamentally about exploration to have prebuilt launch sites (i.e. previous visits by Kerbals) on planets/moons we're supposedly exploring.

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17 minutes ago, GeneCash said:

I hope they fix (AGAIN) the problem worked-around by WorldStabilizer where probes leap to their deaths on low-gravity moons because they spawn slightly below the surface.

Yes, what's the point of releasing new parts and features if we can't even use them because of annoying bugs and glitches

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45 minutes ago, GeneCash said:

Hm. I don't care at all how someone else plays KSP. Not the slightest. Somebody finds fun in launching fireworks from the Mun, more power to 'em.

And another pad certainly wouldn't "break the balance" (there isn't any) or ruin the game. It's another pad.

I agree so hard with this. 

Being able to launch from off-world sites is a great workaround to not having a debug menu for console players, AND there's plenty of folks who's version of gameplay wont hurt in the least by this launch site. 

Those that don't want it in their game can untick that checkbox. Deciding not to play because there's something too 'cheaty' built-in is short-sighted. We already have a cheat menu. I mean, what's more cheaty than that? 

Heck, I'd love having this site just to test out quick ideas for stuff I plan to send to Mun. Same way I CHEAT by reverting to launch when it turns out my design sucks or I screwed up staging. 

I really, truly, whole-heartedly hope this makes it to future PC versions. 

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How much are they charging for the DLC anyway? The Mun launchpad just feels like a cash-grab. it's not about balance or making it easier or harder or any of that...

They took a $15 PC DLC and stripped out the Mission Builder, so their product guy(s) said "hey, we need some way to get people to spend cash of this Console DLC. I bet there are a group of console players who'd pay XX dollars to get an easy-button to the Mun"

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I had always hoped this would come in a sort of "Extraplanetary Launchpads" DLC where we could launch from Kerbin and build launch pads elsewhere and "in space" after reaching a certain tech level.

Still, hope it comes to PC.

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Suggestion (if this ever comes to PC):  Make it a game option whether it exists or not.

Just from reading the posts here:  some people love the idea, and some people really, really hate it.  There's nothing wrong with that; different people like different things.  I, myself, am in the "really, really hate it" camp-- not saying there's anything inherently "right" about that opinion, and nothing at all wrong with the folks who like it.  But since opinions are so divergent on this matter... wouldn't it be nice if there were a game option so that everyone could win, regardless of which camp they're in?  As opposed to having something that might alienate a potentially large segment of the player base.

More rants about my personal feelings on the matter, put into a spoiler because they're not really relevant to anyone but me, unless people just happen to be interested.

Spoiler

I really, really don't want this in my game, ever-- not that there's anything wrong with anyone else wanting it, because after all, different people like different things, and that's fine.  :)

But not only do I have no use for it in my game, but its mere presence would actively make me unhappy and significantly reduce my enjoyment of the game.  "Just don't launch from there" wouldn't address my objection, either.  I could give my reasons why I feel this way, but they're not really germane to the discussion because they're just my personal reasons, are non-negotiable, and there's no point in debating those points because nobody will be able to convince me.

What would remove my objections, would be if there were a specific career option to enable/disable it.  Just as there's currently an "Enable other launchsites" option, I'd want an explicit "Enable Mun launchsite" (or perhaps, if one wants to be more general, "enable off-Kerbin launchsites"), such that if I un-check it, then the Mun launchsite does not exist, at all, in my game.  Not available as a launch option, not present as a CommNet endpoint, no site icon in my map view, no buildings present if I land there.  Gone.

As long as I can have something like that, then other folks can enjoy it to their heart's content and I have no objections.  ;)  But if I can't "make it didn't happen" with a game option-- or, at the very least, straightforwardly mod it out of existence-- then I would be sad.

 

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4 hours ago, septemberWaves said:

I certainly hope this does not get ported to the PC version, for this exact reason. Or, if it does, I hope that it is at least introduced in a way that allows the possibility for modders to remove it.

Kopernicus already has capability to disable the DLC launch sites.

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37 minutes ago, Nightside said:

Kopernicus already has capability to disable the DLC launch sites.

If this ever does make it into PC I'd expect an option in the Settings menu to disable it. I never want to see this in my game and I shouldn't have to add a mod to remove it.

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2 minutes ago, Tyko said:

If this ever does make it into PC I'd expect an option in the Settings menu to disable it. I never want to see this in my game and I shouldn't have to add a mod to remove it.

 

Agree- or at least have it only be enable as after an extended campaign of missions 

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Posted (edited)

I haven't gotten my feelings fully together on this, but I feel the fact that Squad even decided to do this really says something about their direction for the game, and it's not a direction I have ever agreed with.  It's another misstep in a long list of missteps and "what could have beens."

Edited by klgraham1013

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I really don't understand why people are getting so riled up about this feature.  All the features added so far have included an option to disable them in stock settings (including the extra Kerbin launch sites) and KSP is one of the most 'play your own way' games I've come across so I don't see why any player who would choose not use the function would be so vehemently opposed to allowing others to do so.

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Bottom line, if this must be added to the PC version (and it doesn't!), it should be 100% disable-able because it breaks realistic gameplay, particularly with CommsNet, to have a launch site on the Mun, unless it is built by the player.

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To be fair there's ways to make it work ways like prerequisites  to unlock it, giving it a severe penalty to the mass, part count, and dimensions of what you can launch from it plus a vehicle cost markup so that you'd always do much better launching from kerbin instead in about every respect but convenience, etc. The only real insurmountable problem with this is just that the one implementing it is Squad who as usual are just adding it in the laziest way they think they can get away with...

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We've removed or edited some posts in this thread. Please express your feelings on the matter without treating your fellow forum members as enemies. 

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9 hours ago, septemberWaves said:

I certainly hope this does not get ported to the PC version, for this exact reason. Or, if it does, I hope that it is at least introduced in a way that allows the possibility for modders to remove it.

You don't have to use it. I would want it on PC.

6 hours ago, dlrk said:

It's pretty game/immersion breaking for a game that is fundamentally about exploration to have prebuilt launch sites (i.e. previous visits by Kerbals) on planets/moons we're supposedly exploring.

We are talking about sandbox or career mode?

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Posted (edited)

Uuh, why?
I mean I guess there's no reason not to (assuming it can be disabled), but wouldn't effort be better spent fixing some of the longstanding bugs in the game, rather than adding an unrealistic and arguably cheaty feature?
What problem does this solve exactly?

... Unless of course it's just an easy bone to throw the neglected and disgruntled console customers, in which case I would suggest that feature parity with the PC version and the DLC (including the primary DLC feature) would be a better choice.
Frankly I think anyone that purchased the debacle of a console port in it's first incarnation deserves to get the DLC (the whole DLC) for free, considering how long they were left with a barely (if that) usable product. An extra launch site is a pretty lame consolation prize.

Seeing as you have the resources to develop such a frivolous feature for consoles, how about fixing joystick support on GNU/Linux while you're at it, seeing as that does solve a real problem?

Edited by steve_v

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Like many others on this thread, I strongly disagree with the decision to add a Mun launch site. With this DLC I fear that many console players will give up trying to get to the Mun legitimately (so to speak) and just use this launch site instead.

The infrastructure around the launch pad does look quite cool, and I hope that we will one day get a stock launch site building system, similar to what @GregroxMun mentioned up the page. However, I do not want this rather cheaty (in my opinion) feature to ever come to PC. I hope this is some kind of consolation prize for console players because they didn’t get the mission builder.

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To those wondering what the problem is on an optional feature.

The developer of a game about space travel came up with, green lit, designed, and implemented a feature that eliminates the need for space travel in their space travel game.

It's about the intent and design decision, and not whether it's optional or not.

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KSP has become far more than a game about space travel.  My few years as a forum member have shown me that the game is more about creativity than anything else.  Some players build planes, some build trains and some build mechanical contraptions that are amazing without ever having to leave the atmosphere of Kerbin.  The debug menu, making history expansion, and the hyperedit/mechjeb/interplanetary launchpad mods already allow for a player to bypass all the elements of spaceflight and I have not seen too much protest about these besides the occasional 'is it cheating' thread that invariably end in 'it's cool to play your own way'.  These are already optional decisions for individual players.

My personal opinion is that I would not use this feature if it were added to PC unless there were added gameplay elements a la @GregroxMun's suggestions but I would not begrudge another player from experiencing the game the way He/She sees fit.  To impose limitations on someone else's game play (when I know it won't affect mine) just seems wrong to me.

 

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The base looks good imo, and I would like to have it available on PC. However, I agree with the fine folks in this thread that you need to be able to disable it. And by disable, I mean that there needs to be an option in the difficulty settings independent of the other extra launchsites that not only disables you launching from there, but also removes the structure from the world. I don't want this showing up in my science/career game, at least not until I've sent up an RP mission to "set it up". But I really would love to have this base in sandbox.

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