Sweetnsaltyish

rhino engines, what are they good for?

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I've been looking thru all of the engines that I use, and came across the rhino engine.

I know it could be used as a first stage engine, but I has its highest efficiency in a vacuum, and not at sea lvl.

what kind of upper stage craft would need that kind of power?

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7 minutes ago, Sweetnsaltyish said:

what kind of upper stage craft would need that kind of power?

Really, Really big ones apparently. 

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9 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

Really, Really big ones apparently. 

wiser words have never been spoken . . .

 

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11 hours ago, Sweetnsaltyish said:

I know it could be used as a first stage engine, but I has its highest efficiency in a vacuum, and not at sea lvl.

Like you said, it has the highest efficiency in a vacuum, not at sea level. However, by the time the launch vehicle reaches 10km altitude, the Rhino is already operating at ~85-90% efficiency. So you add side-boosters, better suited for atmospheric operation and when it gets to 10-15km, you stage and let it go. Like this for example:

Gy4TPCu.jpg

And if you are taking it to space anyway, why not install proper guidance & RCS and use it as a transfer vehicle?

Spoiler

nR196Um.jpg

That's obviously one way of using it. The rest, I think they fall into the category Gargamel described :) 

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Tankers and supertankers, when you don't want to have to work out a ten-minute burn. I use them all the time on those

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I can honestly say I have never used them, not once.  The permanent 3.75m tankbutt kills it for me. 

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7 hours ago, klesh said:

I can honestly say I have never used them, not once.  The permanent 3.75m tankbutt kills it for me. 

ReStock for the win then!

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I got into Rhino fever back in 1.0.5.

Played stock, before DLC.

The Rhino made a lot of sense for large transfer and insertion stages, like Eve landers and Jool missions. Even used it in tandem with nukes for some asteroid missions for those maneuvers where a fast kick was needed, vs. a slow nuke burn.

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Posted (edited)

I can't honestly say I've ever used one either, since at 3.75 m they take up rather a lot of cross-sectional area for that amount of thrust, and for general orbital maneuvering I'm more inclined to live with the low-TWR Nervs. But looking over the engine stats it appears that nothing else with that amount of thrust and TWR comes close to its vacuum ISP value, so I guess stuff like a really big Tylo lander would be a niche where it would really shine. It might also be really good for the final stage of a large Eve lifter, where you need to circularize relatively quickly to maintain altitude. In fact, I might just give it a whirl for what I'm doing on the big Eve thread....

Edited by herbal space program

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Rhino is great for massive stages. Can't count how many behemoths I put into orbit using the Rhino. It isn't practical for anything small but the bigger you go, the nicer it works.

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Two ways to send a gigantic mine/base off to Jool. Ten minute burn with nuke cluster from a 200km orbit, or 90 second burn with a rhino from a 75km orbit. Both valid. Similar cost.

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14 minutes ago, ExtremeSquared said:

Two ways to send a gigantic mine/base off to Jool. Ten minute burn with nuke cluster from a 200km orbit, or 90 second burn with a rhino from a 75km orbit. Both valid. Similar cost.

90 seconds is an acceptable length for an efficient single ejection burn, but if you take 10 whole minutes from a 200km parking orbit, you are wasting quite a bit of dV.  It's much better to go to a 70 km circular orbit and do multiple shorter kicks at its PE, until you are nearly on an escape trajectory, before doing the final burn. I guess if you're going straight to Jool that might still take a while, but I never actually do that because it takes too much dV that way.

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Posted (edited)

Definitely true. The 200km orbit is a side effect of an ascent profile capable of achieving reliable orbit in a behemoth with an insertion/transfer stage TWR below 0.1.

Edited by ExtremeSquared

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4 hours ago, theJesuit said:

ReStock for the win then!

 

You know it, baby!  I'm blown away by how good it is.

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Posted (edited)

Inspired by Herbal.  

 

GmF16sh.jpg

Packing 1 Rhino, 4 poodles, large ISRU with 4 drills and extendable radiators, 2 large fuel cell arrays so the processor can run non stop....  220 tons 1.72 TWR, 4524 m/s dV.

It can land on Tylo, mine and return to orbit.  Probably unsuitable for multiple landings on Tylo,  but it could refill easily on the smaller moons.  I had about 1/4 fuel left.

 

zVfGFB6.png

The nice thing about stuctural pylons is that they can be fired one at a time by right click menu.

 

KxoHZNx.pngI

 

I had about 1.5 of these full.  They could push significant payloads to the other moons.  Remember, It doesn't count as debris if its an active comsat

Edited by farmerben

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I used a Rhino engine as my main transfer stage for a Moho land and return mission. When you need both lots of dV and high thrust, as Moho orbital insertion demands, it's a great choice on big stages.

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I've never used one. I always use engine plate + multiple vectors instead. Two vectors provide the same vacuum thrust / much better sea level thrust at 8.075 tons vs. 9 for the Rhino. The better ISP of the Rhino probably wins out for super-heavy ships, but for one of those I'll likely have 3-9 vectors. You don't have that flexibility to choose the thrust you want with the single Rhino.

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I use them for the 2nd stage of my large segments (eg. Duna assent module or HUGE xenon propulsion modules.) It gives a good kick to orbit.

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It's passable as a sustainer or even core stage for really, really big rockets, but I feel like you kind of have to build around the Rhino concept to make this worthwhile.

I've used it on some stupidly large mining rigs. You can save a lot of part count vs. using a ton of nukes, and the delta-v loss doesn't matter much on low-gravity bodies.  However, the Wolfhound probably eats into this use-case now. 

It's also decent for redirecting large asteroids.

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Used it as Centurion rocket family's Transfer stage core...

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On 3/8/2019 at 6:36 AM, Blasty McBlastblast said:

After being dried and ground to a fine consistency, the Rhino engine bell can be used as an aphrodisiac to boost struggling rockets...

genuinely laughed, thank you sir

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I LOVE the Rhino as a transfer stage. 

Part of my gameplay is to build the most efficient rockets possible, but looks are an important consideration. :) I like using the thing as a transfer stage to the Mun with a 3-Kerb orbiter/lander stack, it just looks so cool when it separates and burns. 

I can't show a pic; I'm doing a new career and haven't reached that stage yet, but I do use it a lot, and quite enjoy it. :)

 

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I used it as a lifting engine for an intermediate class booster, in tandem with 6-8 Kickbacks. A lot cheaper than Mammoth, bigger payload than Twin Boar + Kickbacks. Also used it a few times for sustainer on really big builds, but I can usually downscale to a lighter or cheaper engine. This was before MH, so there might be better alternatives now.

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