KSP Loading... A Renewed Galaxy and History and Parts Pack Gets a Release Date!

[Superfluous J]

6 minutes ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

Anyhow, if it makes it any clearer: I don't think the developers making their game playable is a favour or something we should be charged for, but actually nothing more than an obligation

I don't have the console version (or a console to play it on) but from what I'm seeing, that's exactly what they're doing. Sure you have to pay if you want the extra features in the DLC, but they're not putting bug fixes in there. They're putting them in the free update that is coming out at the same time.

[Arch3rAc3]

5 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I don't have the console version (or a console to play it on) but from what I'm seeing, that's exactly what they're doing. Sure you have to pay if you want the extra features in the DLC, but they're not putting bug fixes in there. They're putting them in the free update that is coming out at the same time.

Correct, I haven't said it's not. I think this specific discussion about charging for a bug fix started when someone mentioned something about "spending" 0$ for the update (not the DLC).

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

Fair point. What I tried to say - and failed quite badly to - was that in this case, the problems we've been having are surely not related to software wear/bit rotting, but lack of proper testing and attention plus some serious technical debt (as explained in the video I linked in the previous comment).

That happened for sure, not dispute on that.

But the really bad problems are related to bit rotting of some internal components licensed from third-parties, perhaps under NDA - when then they aren't allowed to disclose it publicly. Since I didn't signed any NDA, I don't have any problems on telling what I think, and I think that some of the worst problems are from Unity (look for the thread about the X_INPUT.dll).

I'm seeing some PS4 players complaining about crashes, but I don't see XBbox players complaining about them - so it appears to be something, again, on third-partie's software. Sony is one that for sure makes you sign some very nasty NDAs, by the way, and PS4 was involved a very nasty (in P/R terms, not technical - no real damage was being done) bug on another game, and by the nature of the bug, it appears to be something on the console (as apparently, only ones using SSD are affected!).

And the list goes on.

We do software nowadays in a very brittle chain of thrust - we need to thrust the abstraction layer below us in order to do our work, but the players on this field are, consistently, proven not trustworthy themselves. This lack of thrust is not a problem necessarily - some third parties allows you to certify by yourself what your are using, and in this case, yes, you are the one responsible when it borks.

But other players sell you a black box, and you need to blindly thrust them on the thing. And very few of them deserves such thrust.

 

4 hours ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

Thanks! But I believe I actually meant obligation, as in someone being morally required to do something instead of legally (although obligation may also have a legal meaning close to liability, no? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/obligation). 

My understanding is that "obligation" is when you are obligated (pun not intended) to something by Law. Liability is when you are liable (responsible by law) for something you did. There's no law telling that they are not allowed to sell buggy software, but there're terms telling that they are responsible when such thing happens. That is my argument about the Legal interpretation.

On Moral interpretation, they can only guarantee what they did themselves, and not on what other people's did for them. It's a "bug" on the Chain of Responsibility used on this industry. Referring again to that X_INPUT.dll thingy, it appears to be something on Mono's runtime (some very nasty mishap on a 32/64 bits FAR CALL apparently). Ok, Mono is open source, but that specific compilation is under Unity's responsibility (and they charge them for it!). So Squad have their hands tied on this - they can't fix it themselves, and depending of the NDA they signed to Unity Technologies, can't even tell us about. So this environment withdraw a lot of the "Moral Obligations" from their shoulders, in my humble opinion.

They are still responsible, however.

 

4 hours ago, Arch3rAc3 said:

I don't want to get my hopes up after so many let downs, but I'll have an eye open for what's coming. They are, at least, communicating more frequently with the console community, so that might a starting step.

Still, we have quite some open problems and suggestions given - […]

That's the catch: you need to keep giving them such feedbacks. Your complains are valid, there're absolutely no argument of mine about it. And these complains (even the harsh ones) are useful, besides they not giving feedback back. (ugh). At thew very worst, they can compile all that complains and shove them on the third-parties' noses, telling them "You are damaging our brand. We think you own us something due that".   

My arguing is that it's better to help them to help us, instead of just bashing their arses publicly . We need to bash the right cheeks in order to accomplish what we want.  

Yeah, "às vezes são os deles na reta"  , and then, bashing them is on the order of the day - it just happens that they are not always the one to be bashed!

 

[Lein Armweek]

... So what's the date for the 1.7 with the precision manouver and dV release for Consoles???? 

I want to keep this pleasent people, I don't want to be unpleasent, but I am very talented at it . Just saying lol

[KosmoNot79]

3 hours ago, Lein Armweek said:

... So what's the date for the 1.7 with the precision manouver and dV release for Consoles???? 

I want to keep this pleasent people, I don't want to be unpleasent, but I am very talented at it . Just saying lol

Probably not for a year

[Ruedii]

We can't have our Kerbals blow up the launchpad flagpole anymore?  

That wasn't a bug, that was a feature.

[MajorFizz31]

I hope 1.7 comes to console soon. It is a quality of life update that console needs as well. I have the xbox one x which is no PC but still pretty strong and I hope Squad takes advantage of that and continues to put more effort into console. I love this game but do not have a PC or I'd be playing on it. Cheers!

[Lein Armweek]

26 minutes ago, MajorFizz31 said:

I hope 1.7 comes to console soon. It is a quality of life update that console needs as well. I have the xbox one x which is no PC but still pretty strong and I hope Squad takes advantage of that and continues to put more effort into console. I love this game but do not have a PC or I'd be playing on it. Cheers!

Can't say it anny better than you did. The console needs it even more than the pc. The pc has mods to do this for the players, we don't have this luxury. Ksp for console is a game made for us that know our calculus and physics. I have tried this to share this game with friends but it always come to the point where they start asking me about the numbers and calculations. Even if you know how to do them, you have to be changing between your computer and console inbetween every change you do to you spacecraft. Can this really be the intention?????? 

 

[Arch3rAc3]

6 hours ago, Lein Armweek said:

you have to be changing between your computer and console inbetween every change you do to you spacecraft. Can this really be the intention?????? 

 

I don't really have to use my PC at all. Google sheets, scientific calculator and a notes app are all available in my phone and enough for doing all the calculations I need - just like it would be necessary using a calculator and perhaps spreadsheets in the PC just as well.

Still, your point stands! While it's fun doing the calculations - teaching me so much about astrodynamics and rocket science I would have never learnt in school - we don't have an option not to manually do these calculations all the time - unlike in PC where you have the choice to use a mod.

So, especially when having to do minor changes to a craft you have already calculated its performance before, it can go from a pleasant experience to a repetitive time consuming frustrating one. We really, really need those changes for console ASAP, especially the quality of life ones!

 

[Atomic_ball]

Nice

 

[jake867]

So i just got a small update for ksp today (Not the recent parts pack) anyone know what it is? Hopefully some new fixes?

Edited May 1, 2019 by jake867
Just wanted to add something

[linuxgurugamer]

9 minutes ago, jake867 said:

So i just got a small update for ksp today (Not the recent parts pack) anyone know what it is? Hopefully some new fixes?

What sort of update?

[AVaughan]

There was an announcement about the console version getting a new patch yesterday.