[1.12.x] NOT RO - Kerbal Construction Time - Unrapid Planned Assembly

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, vardicd said:

My specs are win 7 x64

i7 2600 @ 3.40GHZ

24 GB dual channel ddr3 @665mz

4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti (EVGA)

KSP installed on 931GB Western Digital SSD

Our specs are a bit different, but not by much. Since we're both seeing it, though myself at a much lesser noticeable level, and you're not with his game files, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe this is a hardware issue/limitation that's exacerbated by our modded KSP installs? You'd probably know more about that than me though?

Well, my test machine is an i4790K, 32 gig memory & an nVidia GTX 970 with 4gig, with a single SSD for storage.

It really does sound like something which is system specific, but that is extremely hard to isolate.  He is using Windows 7, I'm using W10.  etc.  The variables make it almost impossible to replicate. 

I am working on removing all the "foreach" statements, which _might_ help a little.  I'm also looking to see if there are any repeating loops in the editor which I'm not aware of yet.

 

[JeromeCareebo]

I am running an i7-4770 (non-k, turbos to 3.9)/r9 290 4gb/16gb ddr3 1886mhz/SSD and recently did a clean install of windows 10 (including killing as much of the bloat as I could). I just ran a fresh KSP install with only KCT, Magicore, ClickthroughBlocker, Toolbar Controller and Module Manager. No lag or stutter in the editor or anywhere else.

I figure I'll post my Gamadata directory with some added notes in case it's useful here. If theres a better way to do it, please let me know. Everything is updated to its latest available (I check daily) and manually installed (no CKAN). I have updated any Agent.cfgs to get rid of any title errors in the log.

Spoiler

000_AT_Utils
000_ClickThroughBlocker
000_FilterExtensions
000_FilterExtensions_Configs
000_TexturesUnlimited
000_USITools
001_ToolbarController
AllYAll
AnimatedAttachment
ActionGroupManager
ASET Props
AtmosphereAutopilot
B9AnimationModules
B9PartSwitch
B9Aerospace (Main Pack)
B9ProceduralWings
BahaSP (Retracting/vectoring engines)
BasicProceduralTextures
CommunityCategoryKit
CommunityResourcePack
CommunityTechTree
CommunityTraitIcons
ConfigurableContainers
ConnectedLivingSpace
ContractConfigurator
ContractPacks
    -Anomaly Surveyor
    -CommNet Relays
    -GAP
    -Bases & Stations
    -Tourism
Cormorant Aeronology (Mk3 Shuttle w/Block2 Addon)
CrewRandR
CryoEngines
CryoTanks
CTTP
CustomBarnKit
DecayingRTGs (NF Electrical patch)
DeployableEngines
DMagicOrbitalScience
DMagicScienceAnimate
DockRotate
DynamicBatteryStorage
EasyVesselSwitch
EditorExtensionsRedux
EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements
FerramAerospaceResearch
Firespitter
FlexoDocking
FShangarExtender
GPOSpeedFuelPump
GroundConstruction
HaystackContinued
HeatControl
IndicatorLights
IndicatorLightsCommunityExtensions
JanitorsCloset
JDiminishingRTG
JSI (Raster Prop Monitor)
KAS
KerbalAtomics
KerbalConstructionTime
KerbalEngineer
KerbalFoundries
KerbalGPS
KerbalKrashSystem
KerbalReusabilityExpansion
KerbetrotterLtd (Feline Utility Rover)
KermangeddonIndustries (Inline Ballutes)
KIS
Kopernicus
KRASH
KS3P
KSPWheel
MagiCore
MarkIVSystem
MemGraph
ModularFlightIntegrator
MunarIndustries (Fuel Tank Expansion)
NavyFish (DPAI)
NearFutureAeronautics
NearFutureConstruction
NearFutureElectrical
NearFutureElectricaNTRs
NearFutureLaunchVehicles
NearFutureProps
NearFuturePropulsion
NearFutureSolar
NearFutureSpacecraft
OPM
PartCommanderContinued
PlanetaryBaseInc
PortraitStats
PreciseNode
ProceduralParts
RCSBuildAid
RealChute
RealPlume
RealPlume-Stock
ReentryParticleEffect
REPOSoftTech (Deep Freeze)
ResearchBodies
ReStock
ReStockPlus
RLA_Reborn
RocketEmporium
SCANsat
scatterer (0.0540)
ScienceAlert
ScienceRelay
SituationModuleInfo
SmartParts
SmokeScreen
SpaceY-Expanded
SpaceY-Lifters
StationPartsExpansionRedux
StationScience
StockVisualEnhancements
Strategia
SurfaceExperimentPackage
SVT
TarsierSpaceTech
TexturesUnlimited Kontainers Config
TimeControl
TokamakIndustries
TrackingStationEvolved
TriggerTech (Kerbal Alarm Clock & Transfer Window Planner)
UmbraSpaceIndustries (Full suite except Sounding Rockets)
UniversalStorage2
WasdEditorCamera
WildBlueIndustries (Kerbal Actuators only)
Workshop
zFinal_FilterExtensions
ModuleManager.4.0.2.dll

 

I also have the x_input.dll crash when changing scenes that some others have encountered. This leads me to believe that it is indeed a system specific issue, or just a result of the single thread bottleneck (I get 25-27% total CPU usage)  which is why I finally gave up spending all of my time troubleshooting instead of playing.

[SpacedInvader]

7 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

@SpacedInvader

Well, the good news is that your file downloaded without a problem and I have it working.

The bad new is that I am not getting any stutters at all.

Were you aware that MM found an error in one of the files, so it has to rebuild the entire cache each time

So far I've been testing with the stock graphics.  Which graphics setting are you using to start up KSP (dx11 or opengl)?

Hmmm.... Hmmm.... and more Hmmm...

I'm running with the tags -popupwindow and -force-d3d11

6 hours ago, vardicd said:

My specs are win 7 x64

i7 2600 @ 3.40GHZ

24 GB dual channel ddr3 @665mz

4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti (EVGA)

KSP installed on 931GB Western Digital SSD

Our specs are a bit different, but not by much. Since we're both seeing it, though myself at a much lesser noticeable level, and you're not with his game files, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe this is a hardware issue/limitation that's exacerbated by our modded KSP installs? You'd probably know more about that than me though?

 

4 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Well, my test machine is an i4790K, 32 gig memory & an nVidia GTX 970 with 4gig, with a single SSD for storage.

It really does sound like something which is system specific, but that is extremely hard to isolate.  He is using Windows 7, I'm using W10.  etc.  The variables make it almost impossible to replicate. 

I am working on removing all the "foreach" statements, which _might_ help a little.  I'm also looking to see if there are any repeating loops in the editor which I'm not aware of yet.

 

The one aspect of this that has me still thinking that this isn't a hardward issue is the fact that turning off KCT still brings performance of the heavily modded install up to that of the minimal install. If it was a hardware issue, it would stand to reason (though I can agree, not necessarily), that more mods = worse performance, not more mods = worse performance, but only when one mod is active. The fact that you're not getting any stutters on a similarly specced machine makes me wonder what other possible causes there could be. Are you running in windowed mode or fullscreen? Also have you done any other settings tweaks that might be giving you better performance?

EDIT: And yeah, I'd completely forgotten about the Module Manager cached loading feature. I went ahead and fixed the error which will cut a few mins off my loading times.

Edited April 1, 2019 by SpacedInvader

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, SpacedInvader said:

The one aspect of this that has me still thinking that this isn't a hardward issue is the fact that turning off KCT still brings performance of the heavily modded install up to that of the minimal install. If it was a hardware issue, it would stand to reason (though I can agree, not necessarily), that more mods = worse performance, not more mods = worse performance, but only when one mod is active. The fact that you're not getting any stutters on a similarly specced machine makes me wonder what other possible causes there could be. Are you running in windowed mode or fullscreen? Also have you done any other settings tweaks that might be giving you better performance?

Which is why I'm still looking into it.

Regarding how I test, stock settings (which is why I asked how you ran the game), no optimizations of any kind.  And I've run both in windowed and full screen, but now that you've given me your startup options, I'll try those as well.

[SpacedInvader]

2 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Which is why I'm still looking into it.

Regarding how I test, stock settings (which is why I asked how you ran the game), no optimizations of any kind.  And I've run both in windowed and full screen, but now that you've given me your startup options, I'll try those as well.

I may need to try deleting my settings.cfg and letting KSP generate a new one. I can't rule out that I fiddled with something early on that might be causing this. It also occurred to me that the fact that I always open up the old launcher to set initial settings prior to first run might be causing some issues... from what I can tell, that hasn't been updated in years and there is a possibility that its causing some problems.

[linuxgurugamer]

That is always worth a try. I don't think I've ever used the old launcher except when I 1st got the game, and stopped using it about 10 minutes afterwards. 

I usually start my game from inside C can, which is essentially the same as opening a command prompt and munnings command from there

[SpacedInvader]

2 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

That is always worth a try. I don't think I've ever used the old launcher except when I 1st got the game, and stopped using it about 10 minutes afterwards. 

I usually start my game from inside C can, which is essentially the same as opening a command prompt and munnings command from there

I've never actually used the launcher except to access settings before the first launch and that was only ever to avoid needing to wait for even a minimal load to enable graphics settings. I'm not sure that using the launcher for this is actually all that bad, but at this point I'm willing to try anything to see if I can't replicate your results.

[SpacedInvader]

26 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

That is always worth a try. I don't think I've ever used the old launcher except when I 1st got the game, and stopped using it about 10 minutes afterwards. 

I usually start my game from inside C can, which is essentially the same as opening a command prompt and munnings command from there

Sadly there's not improvement with a fresh settings.cfg. For the time being that was the last of my ideas so I guess I'll just go back to playing and bide my time until you've had a chance to make the performance improvements to the code. Hopefully that will help at least a little.

[linuxgurugamer]

I just tested using your settings, and with the -force-d3d11, I am seeing the stutters

Next up is to try the opengl

[SpacedInvader]

20 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I just tested using your settings, and with the -force-d3d11, I am seeing the stutters

Next up is to try the opengl

Hmm... trying now without the modifier...

EDIT: Though I could swear removing it was one of the first things I ever tried.

Edited April 1, 2019 by SpacedInvader

[linuxgurugamer]

I just finished testing with OpenGL.  It also had the stuttering.

 

[SpacedInvader]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I just finished testing with OpenGL.  It also had the stuttering.

 

I'm still getting the stuttering without either, though I've still got -popupwindow, were you testing with or without that?

[SpacedInvader]

Ok, I've now tried launching without any modifiers and am still getting stuttering in both windowed mode and fullscreen mode. I even tried disconnecting my 2nd and 3rd monitors on the chance that perhaps my video card was having trouble keeping up with 3, but that didn't have any effect either (not like KSP is GPU heavy anyway).

[aat]

Have you been able to isolate the setting that induces the stuttering? 

Since I also experience the stutter, I can test on my machine tonight.

 

[linuxgurugamer]

4 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

I'm still getting the stuttering without either, though I've still got -popupwindow, were you testing with or without that?

I did have the popup window set, I don't have time now to test, but I'll try it without in the morning

[SpacedInvader]

57 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I did have the popup window set, I don't have time now to test, but I'll try it without in the morning

This may be a dumb question, but would enabling "Debug Logging" in KCT settings do us any good?

[linuxgurugamer]

11 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

This may be a dumb question, but would enabling "Debug Logging" in KCT settings do us any good?

Other than increasing overhead, probably not.

And, I this morning I retested your install again, and this time was getting the stuttering even without opengl.  I haven't yet deleted the settings and tried again

[SpacedInvader]

6 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Other than increasing overhead, probably not.

And, I this morning I retested your install again, and this time was getting the stuttering even without opengl.  I haven't yet deleted the settings and tried again

Wait, so you got different results on two different runs of the same parameters?

[GrayTech]

I have the build list popping up when I am flying a spacecraft.  This is the first time I actually saw it it pop.  Usually it is already on the screen when I notice it.  I was waiting for my Pe to get 20,000m on map view and it pop up right beside where I was watching.  

[linuxgurugamer]

17 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

Wait, so you got different results on two different runs of the same parameters?

Yes, and now I do see the hiccups.  Understand that this system takes 1/2 to load it, so I can't do that many tests

16 minutes ago, GrayTech said:

I have the build list popping up when I am flying a spacecraft.  This is the first time I actually saw it it pop.  Usually it is already on the screen when I notice it.  I was waiting for my Pe to get 20,000m on map view and it pop up right beside where I was watching.  

Where was your mouse at the time?  Could it have moved over the KCT button?

[GrayTech]

It is definitely possible.  I know that I fidget with my trackball when I play.  I don't think I clicked anything when it stuck on.  I do see that KOS was throwing a lot of null errors in my log.  I have reinstalled KOS and I will see if this could have been contributing to the problem.

I have never deliberately used that button, and didn't know about the mouse over behavior.  I always used the launchpad or runways.  I will try to pay more attention and see if I am causing my own problems.  

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2019 by GrayTech

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, GrayTech said:

It is definitely possible.  I know that I fidget with my trackball when I play.  I don't think I clicked anything when it stuck on.  I do see that KOS was throwing a lot of null errors in my log.  I have reinstalled KOS and I will see if this could have been contributing to the problem.

I have never deliberately used that button, and didn't know about the mouse over behavior.  I always used the launchpad or runways.  I will try to pay more attention and see if I am causing my own problems.  

I can't say I'm a fan of it, but it is established behaviour, so I'm leaving it for now. (moving the mouse over the button pops up the window)

[SpacedInvader]

5 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Yes, and now I do see the hiccups.  Understand that this system takes 1/2 to load it, so I can't do that many tests

Oh, I understand fully and I very much appreciate any progress your able to make. I've been slowly trying to test for additional issue mods, but my load time isn't really much better than yours and I'm also still trying to actually get a little play time in as well.

[SpacedInvader]

@linuxgurugamer

So I'm not sure if this is helpful at all or just another headache for the pile, but I have some new behavior to report now that I'm actually trying to play the game a little instead of the starting and spinning. With KCT enabled, click events seem to be hit or miss while in the editor. What I mean by this is if I attempt to click on a part to remove it once its already attached to a craft, the editor will freeze momentarily, and then there is maybe a 20% chance that the click actually registered properly and the part was separated from the craft. Disabling KCT still sees the editor freeze momentarily (this I'm guessing is a direct result of my bloated mod list), but there is a 100% success rate for actually selecting the part and being able to manipulate it. I'm currently trying to find a video recording program that shows clicks so I can highlight whats happening better.

EDIT: @vardicd does this seem like something you're experiencing at all and if so, can you confirm whether or not disabling KCT in your install fixes it?

Edited April 4, 2019 by SpacedInvader

[vardicd]

2 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

@linuxgurugamer

So I'm not sure if this is helpful at all or just another headache for the pile, but I have some new behavior to report now that I'm actually trying to play the game a little instead of the starting and spinning. With KCT enabled, click events seem to be hit or miss while in the editor. What I mean by this is if I attempt to click on a part to remove it once its already attached to a craft, the editor will freeze momentarily, and then there is maybe a 20% chance that the click actually registered properly and the part was separated from the craft. Disabling KCT still sees the editor freeze momentarily (this I'm guessing is a direct result of my bloated mod list), but there is a 100% success rate for actually selecting the part and being able to manipulate it. I'm currently trying to find a video recording program that shows clicks so I can highlight whats happening better.

EDIT: @vardicd does this seem like something you're experiencing at all and if so, can you confirm whether or not disabling KCT in your install fixes it?

I have seen this behavior, but it usually only happens after I've had KSP running for a while. I've never attributed it to KCT though. it never happens right after I start KSP, but say I start KSp, launch one of my planes, have mechjeb hold a heading, set a KAC timer to pause the game after x hours of travel time, then go take a nap, when I wake up and come back to the game, I do see this behavior if I go into the editor before restarting the game. I've learned through trial and error that if I'm careful not to move the mouse during that hiccup and pause, it will register the click and the part will seperate from the craft. The trick is remembering to hold completely still and not move my mouse during that pause. never tried disabling KCT, as I never thought it was coming from the mod. just assumed it was KSP acting wonky from being left running so long.