[1.12.x] NOT RO - Kerbal Construction Time - Unrapid Planned Assembly

[Darkherring]

44 minutes ago, gap said:

Okay, so If I got you correctly, if the atmosphere reentry speed of dropped stages is too high, they will get damaged or destroyed, and SR will take that damage into account. Is that correct?

Yes, but if your stage is controllable and has some spare fuel it will use it to slow down.

[gap]

49 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

At the beginning of a career you only have a few parts available, also, building vessels costs money which you don't have a the beginning of a career

What I meant is:  if at the beginning of the career you need to create a vessel composed of the parts A, B and C, building the craft A+B+C at once is going to be more time-effective than building A+B, and then adding C to it.

5 minutes ago, Darkherring said:

Yes, but if your stage is controllable and has some spare fuel it will use it to slow down.

Okay thanks. Are control modules and crew required for making stages controllable?

And, if the answer to the question above is yes, is the AI crew going to take care of the stages the are placed on, or the player will need to slow them down manually?

[Darkherring]

@gap if there is a Probe core or crew and battery power stages will be automatically recovered and you will get back part of the funds for the stage.

[gap]

59 minutes ago, Darkherring said:

@gap if there is a Probe core or crew and battery power stages will be automatically recovered and you will get back part of the funds for the stage.

Awesome, thanks!

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, gap said:

What I meant is:  if at the beginning of the career you need to create a vessel composed of the parts A, B and C, building the craft A+B+C at once is going to be more time-effective than building A+B, and then adding C to it.

Of course, it makes sense.  When you go back and change it, there is time involved in making changes, some of which would involve partial disassembly.  

Think of it as a car:  When you buy a car, it cheaper to get the AC from the factory rather than getting it installed after.  Installing after means extra work in taking part of the engine apart in order to add the compressor, etc. (yes, i know that most cars come with AC standard these days)

But it's still faster to change an existing vessel than to build a new one from scratch

[gap]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Of course, it makes sense.  When you go back and change it, there is time involved in making changes, some of which would involve partial disassembly.  

Think of it as a car:  When you buy a car, it cheaper to get the AC from the factory rather than getting it installed after.  Installing after means extra work in taking part of the engine apart in order to add the compressor, etc. (yes, i know that most cars come with AC standard these days)

But it's still faster to change an existing vessel than to build a new one from scratch

Sure, generally speaking that makes sense and I am not complaining, though in my case adding two goo containers to my rocket took about as long as building the rocket itself (a probe, a parachute and a solid fuel engine). Adding the AC to a car doesn't take as long as building the car, even if the car is a simple town car, even if the AC gets installed after the car was built, but again I realize that balancing this mod so to obtain totally realistic outputs under every possible circumstance, is not an easy task

[vardicd]

16 hours ago, gap said:

On as side note: can I install/uninstall mods at wish during the career, or there are mods that are better enabled at the beginning at career start?

You can certainly try. I find that when I decide I want to remove a  mod from the game, I make a copy of my KSP directory and remove it from the copy first to see if it's going to have an effect, and if it messes up the save I'm on, then it stays in the main game and I live with it. this method is still not 100% fool-proof, sometimes saves will still crash and burn down the line because something that was in the removed mod attempts to trigger and save flatline.

16 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I prefer using Stage Recovery, i have no desire to land my boosters manually.

I usually don't use it to land boosters manually, but I find it helps in some atmospheric situations, like I have a blimp or a plane, with a drop pod that's meant to be dropped and collect science. I can drop the pod, ride it down and collect the science, and even if the plane/blimp flies of and despawns or crashes, FMRS lets me go back to the moment I dropped the pod, and ride the plane back to base/ground whatever, and the science pod is still on the ground, to be collected next time I go to the tracking station.

16 hours ago, gap said:

Probably off topic here, but I must admit that I still don't fully understand how Stage Recovery mod works. Aren't dropped stages burnt down in the atmosphere or, at best, lost in space orbits that would require the planning of expensive recovery missions?

It's mostly used for stages dropped before you leave the atmosphere, think kind of like the side boosters on a Falcon heavy, or the SRB's on the space shuttle, as long as you have enough parachutes to cover the mass of the boosters it should recover them, though the farther away from the space center they land the less money you get back from them. it is possible to recover a main stage if it's dropped just before you get into a full orbit, but it has to be dropped before your periapsis gets above 20km {though sometimes stage recovery decides a particular stage still burns up in the atmosphere}, otherwise KSP usually won't delete it, and stage recovery won't pick it up. you'll have to manually delete those stages from the tracking center, or go in and manually ride them into the ground.

16 hours ago, gap said:

Okay, so If I got you correctly, if the atmosphere reentry speed of dropped stages is too high, they will get damaged or destroyed, and SR will take that damage into account. Is that correct?

Yes, but sometimes I feel that stage recovery is a bit too generous, and manages to recover stages I feel should have burned up, but that's a personal flavor. your feelings may differ.

[canisin]

Hey all,

A few questions:

1) What does the setting toggle Reconditioning Blocks Pad do? How is it different than enabling Launchpad Reconditioning?

2) What does Upgrades From Tech Tree do?

3) What is Shared Upgrade Pool? What is KSCSwitcher?

4) Why do I start with 16 points when Starting Upgrades is set to 15, 15, 45? What are those starting upgrades values mean anyway?

5) It seems that resetting upgrades is meant to have a cost, but buying upgrades and resetting does not seem to be reducing my total points, except when I tried it too may times, I came to a point where I was no longer able to reset my upgrades. It seems that maybe the check for enough points for a reset is performed, but the cost is never actually deducted.

6) What are plans?

 

[vardicd]

23 minutes ago, canisin said:

Hey all,

A few questions:

1) What does the setting toggle Reconditioning Blocks Pad do? How is it different than enabling Launchpad Reconditioning?

2) What does Upgrades From Tech Tree do?

3) What is Shared Upgrade Pool? What is KSCSwitcher?

4) Why do I start with 16 points when Starting Upgrades is set to 15, 15, 45? What are those starting upgrades values mean anyway?

5) It seems that resetting upgrades is meant to have a cost, but buying upgrades and resetting does not seem to be reducing my total points, except when I tried it too may times, I came to a point where I was no longer able to reset my upgrades. It seems that maybe the check for enough points for a reset is performed, but the cost is never actually deducted.

6) What are plans?

 

1} while a launch pad is being reconditioned, it can not be used to launch a new craft. it's being repaired and maintained after a launch and being brought back to readiness for it's next use. This game mode is controlled by the Launchpad reconditioning option, if you disable it, no Launchpad will ever need to be reconditioned after use. they'll just be instantly ready to go again. 

2} every time you unlock a tech node in the tech tree you get a upgrade point to spend on VAB/SPH,R&D upgrades.

3} With KCT you can build multiple launch pads, if you enable Shared upgrade pool, every launch pad you build will have the same upgrade status, with this option disabled you'll have to upgrade each pad individually. {I think}

4} I'm not sure why you're starting with 16, those values are meant to represent the starting upgrade points for each type of game 15 for career, 15 for science mode, and 45 for sandbox.

5} resetting upgrades should leave you with 2 upgrade points fewer than what you started with. If you've invested say 20 upgrade points into your VAB SPH and R&D, and decide you don't like how they are spent, you can click this button, and it will refund your upgrade points, but instead of the 20 you spent, you'll only have 18 to sink back in. click it again, and you'll only have 16 and so on, until you've run out of points to upgrade with.

6} Plans are ship designs you've built in the VAB or SPH, and you think you're going to build a lot, say a cargo ship to resupply a Kerbin orbiting space station. from the VAB or SPH you can save this craft or any other as a plan, and then from the space center screen you can select that plan to start it building, with out having to go back into the VAB or SPH editor to construct it from there. it's merely a time saving measure for commonly built craft.

Edited April 6, 2019 by vardicd

[canisin]

Thanks a lot for the information!! I have a few follow ups, though.

1) hat I had meant to say was what is the difference between the two settings "Reconditioning Blocks Pad" and "Launchpad Reconditioning". The default profile has the former set to false, while the latter set to true.

2) Ok, thanks.

3) Thanks for the info, I'll see when I get to building multiple pads.

4) Hmm weird that I get one extra point.. maybe it is for the starting tech tree node? Thanks for the clarification of the three separate values.

5) That is pretty much what I had thought would happen, there seems to be an issue with it.

6) Thanks.

7) A new question: What does Fill Tanks & Launch do?

Edited April 6, 2019 by canisin

[vardicd]

25 minutes ago, canisin said:

Thanks a lot for the information!! I have a few follow ups, though.

1) hat I had meant to say was what is the difference between the two settings "Reconditioning Blocks Pad" and "Launchpad Reconditioning". The default profile has the former set to false, while the latter set to true.

2) Ok, thanks.

3) Thanks for the info, I'll see when I get to building multiple pads.

4) Hmm weird that I get one extra point.. maybe it is for the starting tech tree node? Thanks for the clarification of the three separate values.

5) That is pretty much what I had thought would happen, there seems to be an issue with it.

6) Thanks.

7) A new question: What does Fill Tanks & Launch do?

1} okay, there are 2 options, Launchpad Reconditioning, which tells the mod if you want the launch pads to require reconditioning or not, and then if you've enabled Launchpad Reconditioning, the option for Reconditioning Blocks Pad, tells the mod if the pad can be used while it's being reconditioned. if you say block the pad while it's being reconditioned, then you can't use it, even if you need to launch an emergency mission. if reconditioning is enabled, but the option for reconditioning blocking the pad is disabled, then you can still use the pad, even when it's being reconditioned. { now I believe when the mod first came out, if you set launchpads to need reconditioning, but allowed launchpads to be used during reconditioning, the launch pad would be destroyed, and need to be rebuilt before you could use it again, just as if you'd flown something into it and destroyed it, or had a ship fall down on it and blow it up. I don't know if that option is still there, or not.}

7} Say you build an airplane, fly it around for some mission, you land back at the KSC, you can use KCT to recover an active craft to storage. {see image below} When you've recovered the craft to storage, its still the same ship, and you can re-launch it, no construction time needed. the option to fill tanks and launch tells your ground crew to take a fuel truck out there, gas that plane {or rocket or rocketplane} up so it can get back in the air in just a couple of minutes, instead of the days or hours it would take to build it again and relaunch it like a new craft.

[gap]

5 hours ago, vardicd said:

You can certainly try. I find that when I decide I want to remove a  mod from the game, I make a copy of my KSP directory and remove it from the copy first to see if it's going to have an effect, and if it messes up the save I'm on, then it stays in the main game and I live with it. this method is still not 100% fool-proof, sometimes saves will still crash and burn down the line because something that was in the removed mod attempts to trigger and save flatline.

I usually don't use it to land boosters manually, but I find it helps in some atmospheric situations, like I have a blimp or a plane, with a drop pod that's meant to be dropped and collect science. I can drop the pod, ride it down and collect the science, and even if the plane/blimp flies of and despawns or crashes, FMRS lets me go back to the moment I dropped the pod, and ride the plane back to base/ground whatever, and the science pod is still on the ground, to be collected next time I go to the tracking station.

It's mostly used for stages dropped before you leave the atmosphere, think kind of like the side boosters on a Falcon heavy, or the SRB's on the space shuttle, as long as you have enough parachutes to cover the mass of the boosters it should recover them, though the farther away from the space center they land the less money you get back from them. it is possible to recover a main stage if it's dropped just before you get into a full orbit, but it has to be dropped before your periapsis gets above 20km {though sometimes stage recovery decides a particular stage still burns up in the atmosphere}, otherwise KSP usually won't delete it, and stage recovery won't pick it up. you'll have to manually delete those stages from the tracking center, or go in and manually ride them into the ground.

Yes, but sometimes I feel that stage recovery is a bit too generous, and manages to recover stages I feel should have burned up, but that's a personal flavor. your feelings may differ.

Okay thank you vardicd, that's good info,  I have a few more doubts though, I hope this is the right place to express them.

Some facts first: KCT + ScrapYard do place parts from recovered vessels into an inventory, and let the player to pick those parts for the building of new crafts. As far as I could understand, the advantages of re-using parts rather than using new ones, are three:

1. Recycling used parts can sensibly reduce vessel building times.
2. If Oh Scrap! is installed, re-used parts have a lower failure chance than completely new and untested parts, though there is a limit of reuses beyond which the reliability of used parts will drop drastically.
3. If ScrapYard's 'override fund' option is checked, the cost of re-cycled parts is deduced from the total building costs, though the player is still required to have the full amount.

My doubts are: how does Stage Recovery integrates with the two mods I have mentioned above? Namely: are the parts of recovered stages placed in the VAB/SPH inventory as well as parts from recovered core modules? In the affermative case, will we be able to get cash refunds from using stage parts in our new projects, even though we have already received money for recovering those parts?

2 hours ago, canisin said:

4) Why do I start with 16 points when Starting Upgrades is set to 15, 15, 45? What are those starting upgrades values mean anyway?

 

1 hour ago, vardicd said:

4} I'm not sure why you're starting with 16, those values are meant to represent the starting upgrade points for each type of game 15 for career, 15 for science mode, and 45 for sandbox.

 

1 hour ago, canisin said:

4) Hmm weird that I get one extra point.. maybe it is for the starting tech tree node? Thanks for the clarification of the three separate values.

I can confirm that; I started my career with 16 upgrade points too, and I had chosen a mod profile with identical settings than the ones mentioned by canisin (15, 15, 45).

[Tonas1997]

Is KK fully compatible with KCT? I'm asking this because, a while back, there were some problems with the way both mods handled new launchpads.

[vardicd]

12 hours ago, gap said:

Okay thank you vardicd, that's good info,  I have a few more doubts though, I hope this is the right place to express them.

Some facts first: KCT + ScrapYard do place parts from recovered vessels into an inventory, and let the player to pick those parts for the building of new crafts. As far as I could understand, the advantages of re-using parts rather than using new ones, are three:

1. Recycling used parts can sensibly reduce vessel building times.
2. If Oh Scrap! is installed, re-used parts have a lower failure chance than completely new and untested parts, though there is a limit of reuses beyond which the reliability of used parts will drop drastically.
3. If ScrapYard's 'override fund' option is checked, the cost of re-cycled parts is deduced from the total building costs, though the player is still required to have the full amount.

My doubts are: how does Stage Recovery integrates with the two mods I have mentioned above? Namely: are the parts of recovered stages placed in the VAB/SPH inventory as well as parts from recovered core modules? In the affermative case, will we be able to get cash refunds from using stage parts in our new projects, even though we have already received money for recovering those parts?

 

 

I can confirm that; I started my career with 16 upgrade points too, and I had chosen a mod profile with identical settings than the ones mentioned by canisin (15, 15, 45).

1} yes.

2} Also correct.

3} I've never played with the override fund option, so I can't answer how that works.

To the best of my understanding, ANY PART caught by stage recovery is placed into the VAB/SPH hangar inventory for reuse. Any part recovered into that inventory that you reuse will still cost you funds, but will take less time to build again, as the part is available and doesn't need to be built from scratch. Now as far as I understand, the parts will still cost the same, which may or may not make sense depending on how you choose to think about it. Do you feel it should cost the same amount to refurbish and prep parts for reuse versus paying a crew to build a new one from scratch? I personally think there should be a cost savings for reusing parts, vs building new ones, but it is what it is, and I have no idea how difficult it would be to detect that and make it work, and it's not enough of an issue I've ever felt the need to complain about it. So it will cost you every time you launch a vessel, whether the parts are new or reused, and each time you successfully recover parts with Stage Recovery, you'll get a percent of that back. {essentially imagine it as minus the costs paid to the recovery crews to haul the recovered bits back to the space center.}

Edited April 6, 2019 by vardicd

[Therese]

Hullo @linuxgurugamer
I've encountered a bug that is only there when I have the mod enabled through the settings menu. Log file here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gerniryss518ddn/output_log.txt?dl=0

This is my first time asking for support in the forums, so please bear with me.

When simulating a launch with KRASH, or launching a built vessel, upon staging the entire thing flips 90 degrees, and goes zooming off accross the ground. If I simulate or launch with mod disabled, everything works.
I've looked through the previous pages, and not found mention of this. I know that my KCT is not the very lates version, but the changelog looks like this hasn't been covered.
I use CKAN for most of my mods, and everything is listad as up to date.

Insert your favourite line about me appreciating your mods *here*

[linuxgurugamer]

3 minutes ago, Therese said:

Hullo @linuxgurugamer
I've encountered a bug that is only there when I have the mod enabled through the settings menu. Log file here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gerniryss518ddn/output_log.txt?dl=0

This is my first time asking for support in the forums, so please bear with me.

When simulating a launch with KRASH, or launching a built vessel, upon staging the entire thing flips 90 degrees, and goes zooming off accross the ground. If I simulate or launch with mod disabled, everything works.
I've looked through the previous pages, and not found mention of this. I know that my KCT is not the very lates version, but the changelog looks like this hasn't been covered.
I use CKAN for most of my mods, and everything is listad as up to date.

Insert your favourite line about me appreciating your mods *here*

You aren't on the latest version.  You are running 1.4.6, this very bug was addressed in 1.4.6.1

[Therese]

Haha, i knew i should have done more troubleshooting before bedtime. Will fix tomorrow. 

Thanks

[aat]

Small window glitch (still on 1.4.6.1):

when left-clicking on the launchpad or the runway, the launch window opens of a fraction of second and immediately closes afterward.

I guess it is KCT that forces it to close, otherwise would be possible to launch without building a craft. Maybe the window should  not open at all?

[gap]

58 minutes ago, vardicd said:

1} yes.

2} Also correct.

3} I've never played with the override fund option, so I can't answer how that works.

To the best of my understanding, ANY PART caught by stage recovery is placed into the VAB/SPH hangar inventory for reuse. Any part recovered into that inventory that you reuse will still cost you funds, but will take less time to build again, as the part is available and doesn't need to be built from scratch. Now as far as I understand, the parts will still cost the same, which may or may not make sense depending on how you choose to think about it. Do you feel it should cost the same amount to refurbish and prep parts for reuse versus paying a crew to build a new one from scratch? I personally think there should be a cost savings for reusing parts, vs building new ones, but it is what it is, and I have no idea how difficult it would be to detect that and make it work, and it's not enough of an issue I've ever felt the need to complain about it. So it will cost you every time you launch a vessel, whether the parts are new or reused, and each time you successfully recover parts with Stage Recovery, you'll get a percent of that back. {essentially imagine it as minus the costs paid to the recovery crews to haul the recovered bits back to the space center.}

Thank you for your replies vardicd

Yesterday, after posting my questions here, I went though the whole ScrapYard thread and I carried out some tests, so maybe I can add some useful information together with some personal notes.

• When SY's 'override funds' option is unchecked (i.e. by default) and a spacecraft is recovered, the player is actually rewarded with new parts (from the craft) added to the inventory, plus the cash value of the recovered parts, minus the recovering costs; the further away from the KSC the recovery location, the higher those costs, the lesser the cash reward. From then, the player can decide to sell the recovered parts right away (earning yet more money during the transaction) or,  before selling them, he ca re-use them a number of times for the building of other vessels. As noted by you, the player will still pay the full money amount for the used parts included in his new projects, but he will spare building time. I am not sure whether there is a limit to the number of times used parts can be recycled, but if OhScrap! is installed together with SY, it is likely that after several reuses the recycled parts will become so prone to failure that the player will discard/sell them way before their theoretical max recycle limit is reached.
• Conversely, when the 'override funds' option is checked, recovered vessels will still add parts to the inventory, but the player won't receive any cash on their recovering; on the contrary, he will get to pay an amount proportional to the distance of their recovering location relative to the KSC. Again, it will be on the player deciding when to sell the recently acquired inventory parts (thus earning money) and how many times he wants to recycle them. Unlike the previous point, recycling used parts will make the player to spare money as well as building time, but that doesn't mean that their re-use will be cost-free. As a matter of fact, the player will still have to pay some money for their reconditioning, but it will be only a fraction of the money he would have payed  had he used completely new parts. During my tests I didn't pay too much attention to the following aspects, but it is likely that reconditioning costs for each part will grow every time it is re-used (reflecting the difficulty of maintaining a part subject to  an increasing wear), while the cash we will earn from selling it will probably decrease proportionally to the decrease of its reliability.

Summing up: despite the fact that the 'override funds' option is classed as a 'WIP' feature, during my tests with it enabled I couldn't identify any significant adverse effect. All in all, I think it provides a more realistic and more balanced gaming experience than the regular SY mode, and in my opinion this balance do reach its maximum if OhScrap! (or any other SY-compatible failure mod) in used. In fact, the WIP gaming mode will make the recovering and recycling of used parts lesser financially advantageous than the default mode (where, basically, you can only earn money by dealing with those parts), and this is especially true in the mid/long therm, when the money and time spared in re-using them will be counteracted by the need to pay in advance for their recovering, by their decreasing reliability, and possibly by their increasing reconditioning costs and decreasing selling value. The money invested in recovering and maintaining the used parts, the shortening of building times, and the increasing failure chances, are variables of an equation whose solution is up to the player, if he wants to find the best compromise among those factors.

Finally, I have not reached the technological level required for making my stages recoverable yet, so I can't say for sure if the above considerations are also valid for used parts recovered with the StageRecovery mod but, to the best of my understanding,  they will end in the same inventory as any other recovered part, so it is more than likely that 'the override funds' option applies to them as well.

[New Horizons]

I have a question to the KCT window. Is there a way to make its pop up status persistent for each scren? I find it anoying to always pop it up on space center screen and often have to close it in the VAB.

[gap]

3 hours ago, aat said:

Small window glitch (still on 1.4.6.1):

when left-clicking on the launchpad or the runway, the launch window opens of a fraction of second and immediately closes afterward.

I guess it is KCT that forces it to close, otherwise would be possible to launch without building a craft. Maybe the window should  not open at all?

I confirm the behaviour reported by aat, but unlike him I would like being able to access the launchpad by clicking on it (as in stock game).

I understand the limit evidenced by him (i.e. the need to avoid the selection of spacecrafts that have not been built yet), but I wonder if the rocket selection interface available there could be limited to only show vessels already available in the KCT's VAB storage.

[vardicd]

4 hours ago, aat said:

Small window glitch (still on 1.4.6.1):

when left-clicking on the launchpad or the runway, the launch window opens of a fraction of second and immediately closes afterward.

I guess it is KCT that forces it to close, otherwise would be possible to launch without building a craft. Maybe the window should  not open at all?

57 minutes ago, gap said:

I confirm the behaviour reported by aat, but unlike him I would like being able to access the launchpad by clicking on it (as in stock game).

I understand the limit evidenced by him (i.e. the need to avoid the selection of spacecrafts that have not been built yet), but I wonder if the rocket selection interface available there could be limited to only show vessels already available in the KCT's VAB storage.

Funnily enough, I guess it's because I've played with KCT since Magico first released it, and actually have stopped playing KSP for significant periods of time after KSP version changes when KCT is broken, but I don't even try to click there anymore. I have actually had issues on stock installs trying to find the KCT interface to launch craft when I'm testing for mod bugs, because I forget I'm running a stock install.  On a more serious note, IF I recall correctly, {IF} I believe when KCT was first released magico attempted to make it so clicking on the Launchpad or runway could still be used, but found it impossible to prevent the over-riding of KSP stock instant build/launch system if the Launchpad/runway interface wasn't blocked, and so he had to move to the system in place now. {now whether that was a KSP problem, or a limitation on Magico's skills, I have no knowledge, nor opinion.} I further think the system we have now, where KCT intercepts and forces the window closed when you click the Launchpad/runway was the best he could come up with at the time. I have no idea if Linuxgurugamer has the time or inclination to muck around with a system that, for all intents and purposes is functional, if disappointing to some mod users, but I thought I could attempt to explain a bit about why it is what it is now. {again at least as far as my memory is concerned, and I admit freely I may be mis-remembering.}

2 hours ago, gap said:

Thank you for your replies vardicd

Yesterday, after posting my questions here, I went though the whole ScrapYard thread and I carried out some tests, so maybe I can add some useful information together with some personal notes.

• When SY's 'override funds' option is unchecked (i.e. by default) and a spacecraft is recovered, the player is actually rewarded with new parts (from the craft) added to the inventory, plus the cash value of the recovered parts, minus the recovering costs; the further away from the KSC the recovery location, the higher those costs, the lesser the cash reward. From then, the player can decide to sell the recovered parts right away (earning yet more money during the transaction) or,  before selling them, he ca re-use them a number of times for the building of other vessels. As noted by you, the player will still pay the full money amount for the used parts included in his new projects, but he will spare building time. I am not sure whether there is a limit to the number of times used parts can be recycled, but if OhScrap! is installed together with SY, it is likely that after several reuses the recycled parts will become so prone to failure that the player will discard/sell them way before their theoretical max recycle limit is reached.
• Conversely, when the 'override funds' option is checked, recovered vessels will still add parts to the inventory, but the player won't receive any cash on their recovering; on the contrary, he will get to pay an amount proportional to the distance of their recovering location relative to the KSC. Again, it will be on the player deciding when to sell the recently acquired inventory parts (thus earning money) and how many times he wants to recycle them. Unlike the previous point, recycling used parts will make the player to spare money as well as building time, but that doesn't mean that their re-use will be cost-free. As a matter of fact, the player will still have to pay some money for their reconditioning, but it will be only a fraction of the money he would have payed  had he used completely new parts. During my tests I didn't pay too much attention to the following aspects, but it is likely that reconditioning costs for each part will grow every time it is re-used (reflecting the difficulty of maintaining a part subject to  an increasing wear), while the cash we will earn from selling it will probably decrease proportionally to the decrease of its reliability.

Summing up: despite the fact that the 'override funds' option is classed as a 'WIP' feature, during my tests with it enabled I couldn't identify any significant adverse effect. All in all, I think it provides a more realistic and more balanced gaming experience than the regular SY mode, and in my opinion this balance do reach its maximum if OhScrap! (or any other SY-compatible failure mod) in used. In fact, the WIP gaming mode will make the recovering and recycling of used parts lesser financially advantageous than the default mode (where, basically, you can only earn money by dealing with those parts), and this is especially true in the mid/long therm, when the money and time spared in re-using them will be counteracted by the need to pay in advance for their recovering, by their decreasing reliability, and possibly by their increasing reconditioning costs and decreasing selling value. The money invested in recovering and maintaining the used parts, the shortening of building times, and the increasing failure chances, are variables of an equation whose solution is up to the player, if he wants to find the best compromise among those factors.

Finally, I have not reached the technological level required for making my stages recoverable yet, so I can't say for sure if the above considerations are also valid for used parts recovered with the StageRecovery mod but, to the best of my understanding,  they will end in the same inventory as any other recovered part, so it is more than likely that 'the override funds' option applies to them as well.

Interesting observations, I may have to go in and play around with that setting, I'll admit I've avoided it since it was always a WIP when I looked at it, and I've never been bothered enough by KCT's performace to mess with a WIP feature, so. thanks for the heads up.

[gap]

58 minutes ago, vardicd said:

Funnily enough, I guess it's because I've played with KCT since Magico first released it, and actually have stopped playing KSP for significant periods of time after KSP version changes when KCT is broken, but I don't even try to click there anymore. I have actually had issues on stock installs trying to find the KCT interface to launch craft when I'm testing for mod bugs, because I forget I'm running a stock install.  On a more serious note, IF I recall correctly, {IF} I believe when KCT was first released magico attempted to make it so clicking on the Launchpad or runway could still be used, but found it impossible to prevent the over-riding of KSP stock instant build/launch system if the Launchpad/runway interface wasn't blocked, and so he had to move to the system in place now. {now whether that was a KSP problem, or a limitation on Magico's skills, I have no knowledge, nor opinion.} I further think the system we have now, where KCT intercepts and forces the window closed when you click the Launchpad/runway was the best he could come up with at the time. I have no idea if Linuxgurugamer has the time or inclination to muck around with a system that, for all intents and purposes is functional, if disappointing to some mod users, but I thought I could attempt to explain a bit about why it is what it is now. {again at least as far as my memory is concerned, and I admit freely I may be mis-remembering.}

Personally I like mods to be as "polished", i.e. as reliant on the stock interface and as respectful of the (intuitive) vanilla interaction design as possible. That said, I realize that there are different tastes, limits to what can be modded and what not and, above all, priorities relative to what aspects of the game need to be addressed first. By no means I think that the issue we are discussing now is a priority, and I wouldn't have raised it, if aat had not brought our attention to it.

I am a new KCT user who is trying to build his own mod list around this mod, and so far I am very happy of how it works. I will be even happier if some small imperfections will be smoothed out in future, but in the meanwhile I will gladly live with them 

58 minutes ago, vardicd said:

Interesting observations, I may have to go in and play around with that setting, I'll admit I've avoided it since it was always a WIP when I looked at it, and I've never been bothered enough by KCT's performace to mess with a WIP feature, so. thanks for the heads up.

My pleasure vardicd. Since you seem a a veteran KCT/SY user, and you have never tried the WIP setting,  I think you should give it a chace if you want to try something new.

If you do, please share with us your thoughts. Given your experience, I am sure you will spot any possible flaw connected with it better than I can!

Edited April 7, 2019 by gap

[vardicd]

7 minutes ago, gap said:

Personally I like mods to be as "polished", i.e. as reliant on the stock interface and as respectful of the (intuitive) vanilla interaction design as possible. That said, I realize that there are different tastes, limits to what can be modded and what not and, above all, priorities relative to what aspects of the game need to be addressed first. By no means I think that the issue we are discussing now is a priority, and I wouldn't have raised it, if aat had not brought our attention to it.

I am a new KCT user who is trying to build his own mod list around this mod, and so far I am very happy of how it works. I will be even happier if some small imperfections will be smoothed out in future, but in the meanwhile I will gladly live with them 

My pleasure vardicd. Since you seem a a veteran KCT/SY user, and you have never tried the WIP setting,  I think you should give it a chace if you want to try something new.

If you do, please share with us your experience. Given your experience, I am sure you will spot any possible flaw connected with it better than I can!

Yeah, my previous post was only meant to be informative, not one of criticism  so no worries there. and to be completely honest, as far as the WIP feature, I remember~ish when it was first introduced, and decided to not mess with it because WIP, and in all the time since I've kind of just forgotten about it, at least until it was mentioned here. I probably won't play around with it, until I need to start a new save, which could be a few months from now, or a mod could blow up on me in an hour {since I swap mods in and out of my active saves all the time, and you'd think I'd know better by now} and I'd have a chance to try it out. Who knows!?

[gap]

3 minutes ago, vardicd said:

Yeah, my previous post was only meant to be informative, not one of criticism  so no worries there...

I think I had got your point. My previous considerations were more meant as an appreciation of the amazing work done by magico 13 and linuxgurugamer than as an answer to you lol. Sorry for the misunderstanding 

5 minutes ago, vardicd said:

...and to be completely honest, as far as the WIP feature, I remember~ish when it was first introduced, and decided to not mess with it because WIP, and in all the time since I've kind of just forgotten about it, at least until it was mentioned here. I probably won't play around with it, until I need to start a new save, which could be a few months from now, or a mod could blow up on me in an hour {since I swap mods in and out of my active saves all the time, and you'd think I'd know better by now} and I'd have a chance to try it out. Who knows!?

I wish you not to mess with it before some months then