KosmoNot79 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Snark said: Let's not minimize people's frustration. They're unhappy. People feel what they feel, and they generally have reasons for that. As a KSP player who loves playing this game, I'm always sad to see someone who's unhappy with their experience-- so I'd like to understand that better. After checking the forum for confirmation of release and seeing that it is delayed I was a bit frustrated. This is solely because I was excited to play with the new features that night. Although this is true, I completely understand why the update was delayed and respect Squad's decision. It is way better we get a great release a while later than a buggy one on the promised release date. I don't understand where all of the screaming at squad and disappointment comes from. These things come up and expecting a game to be released perfectly on an exact date every single time it too high standards no matter the game. On top of this, I imagine KSP is a very hard game to code. Overall, Squad is doing the best they can at solving this issue and the negative feedback us unwarranted. Keep up the fantastic work @SQUAD and I can't wait for the update no matter how long the wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1mo98 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, KosmoNot79 said: After checking the forum for confirmation of release and seeing that it is delayed I was a bit frustrated. This is solely because I was excited to play with the new features that night. Although this is true, I completely understand why the update was delayed and respect Squad's decision. It is way better we get a great release a while later than a buggy one on the promised release date. I don't understand where all of the screaming at squad and disappointment comes from. These things come up and expecting a game to be released perfectly on an exact date every single time it too high standards no matter the game. On top of this, I imagine KSP is a very hard game to code. Overall, Squad is doing the best they can at solving this issue and the negative feedback us unwarranted. Keep up the fantastic work @SQUAD and I can't wait for the update no matter how long the wait! I think people take for granted just how complicated this game is probably to code. So many mechanics need to work together and just one small problem with any piece of code could cascade and break everything. They got to make sure everything works properly, and if that means pushing back release dates, than so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVaughan Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 6 hours ago, sicko kerman said: PC players get updated all the time I think a significant part of the reason why console gets less updates than PC is the cost of each update. On PC releasing a KSP update is almost free. (Yeah you are paying for the man hours and QA testing to develop the game, but you don't need to pay extra to actually release an update/patch/hotfix). For console they need to pay a significant amount of money for each update/patch. (I don't know the actual figure but in 2012 https://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/02/wait-it-costs-40000-to-patch-a-console-game/ suggested $40,000 just for a patch release). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbinchaser Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Lisias said: A = People are Mad B = When Release is delayed C = When Release is bugged A = B v C But since Releases are always bugged or delayed, B v C == True. So A = True Ergo: People are Mad. There's no point on arguing about Logic Tautologies. I just realized that I only outnumber your point count by +1 as of this reply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicko kerman Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 hour ago, KosmoNot79 said: I messaged Oumo and he said the next newsletter is coming out next month so we will get some info on the details soon. 16 days ouch but still at least it hasn't been canceled... Yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lein Armweek Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) On 3/22/2019 at 2:01 AM, The_Cat_In_Space said: Hopefully it'll just be a few days, maybe a week or two at most. I'm still happy that they're doing this though. At least they're trying to update the game, rather than just abandon it How long you been developing for ksp? Your positive attitude despite all comment on disappointment is very peculiar. Why don't you tell us what a reasonable waiting time beyond the ETA the developer did not live up would be? People cant be disappointed or if we are then we are unreasonable? We can't complaint that this people did got their [snip] togheter to be done in the the time they self announced? Edited March 24, 2019 by Gargamel Portions Redacted By Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chel Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 6 hours ago, Lein Armweek said: How long you been developing for ksp? Your positive attitude despite all comment on disappointment is very peculiar Is it? I just love the game and see it as 'delaying to make it better'. Some people, like me, have a positive attitude and are supporting SQUAD on this. And i'm not 'developing for KSP' (I don't really know what you mean by that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmoNot79 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 7 hours ago, Lein Armweek said: People cant be disappointed or if we are then we are unreasonable? We can't complaint that this people did got their shizz togheter to be done in the the time they self announced? The thing is that KSP is a difficult game to code and it is reasonable for them to need to debug even if it's at the last second. I get that it is frustrating but as I've said before, Squad is doing their best and there best is pretty good considering the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostu Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) Honestly it would be nice to have better communication if anything, I'd appreciate them giving us daily info about where the update is at than just make us wait like this. Honestly not that hard to type 50-100 word message a day explaining what's going on. PC shouldn't have the right to get angry at us for being angry at the devs because they've never had to deal with a blackout in communication with the devs/updates for half a year. Edited March 23, 2019 by Nostu Wanted to add more key pointers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Nostu said: PC shouldn't have the right to get angry at us for being angry at the devs because they've never had to deal with a blackout in communication with the devs/updates for half a year. Standard Procedure. When you develop for Consoles, you sigh some very scaring NDAs, severely restricting what you can say to anyone else. Keeping the communications at a minimum is, usually, the safest way to prevent telling people something you are not allowed - what could ending in you paying some very harsh fines. You can break a small game studio with only one. Edited March 23, 2019 by Lisias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, KosmoNot79 said: The thing is that KSP is a difficult game to code and it is reasonable for them to need to debug even if it's at the last second. Not only that. A security update on the Console's firmware can change the expected behaviour of some internal functions, and things that used to work yesterday doesn't work anymore today. And you are not allowed to talk about due the NDA. Do you are aware of that stunt from Anthem on PS4? From the point of view from someone that wrote embedded firmware for the automobile industry, I see some resemblance to a firmware bug acting over a programmer failure to cope with some small security feature (being that forgetting to hit the feature, or hitting it too much), followed by a fail-safe being trigger happy. This is a Joint Effort Task - you just can't get yourself on such magnificent mess without a lot of help. My guess? Since the problem appears to affect only Consoles with SSD, I think the developer was using the disk access routines to calm-down a watchdog (perhaps something designed by Sony to prevent a game crashing while writing the HD, what would screw up everything?). With SSDs being hugely faster, the routine kicked the watch-dog too fast, and triggered a response from it. Later, a fail-safe prevented the Console to turn on, as the watch-dog told him that someone had crashed while writing to the HD and so its better to abort the boot to do not cause more damages (perhaps in an attempt to preserve the HD contents on disk crashes?). If I'm right (and this is a big IF - it can be thousands of different things), BioWare and E.A. are just not allowed to talk anything about the subject. They are not allowed even to tell us it wasn't their fault, as this would imply it was Sony's fault - and the NDA forbids them to pinpoint Console flaws to the public. Since Squad are usually open about their mistakes, I think it's reasonable to assume these ones can be related to third-parties where NDA applies. Edited March 23, 2019 by Lisias uh. tyops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.phees Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) @Lisias: You are absolutely right. Usually Squad tells what is happening. This might really be a NDA thing. Also to people requesting requiring Squad to write daily reports on their progress: What would you really gain? You would wait the same time and make developers write more documentation (which developers seriously hate). That would further eat into their development time. My suggestion is still to chill, and close the tab/window with this discussion. Set yourself a timer and don't check for the update being dropped for the next 12 hours. You will not loose anything, since you are not a professional youtuber, who might be dependent on being the first to report on the update. "What", you say, "but I am a professional youtuber!" No, you are not, or you would simply watch for the "update is out" message and get on with your job. That said, go out now and play some old KSP, so that you can better appreciate the changes when the update drops. Or do something completely different even! Edited March 23, 2019 by dr.phees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KosmoNot79 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 5 hours ago, dr.phees said: You are absolutely right. Usually Squad tells what is happening. This might really be a NDA thing. What does/would this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostu Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 5 hours ago, dr.phees said: @Lisias: You are absolutely right. Usually Squad tells what is happening. This might really be a NDA thing. Also to people requesting requiring Squad to write daily reports on their progress: What would you really gain? You would wait the same time and make developers write more documentation (which developers seriously hate). That would further eat into their development time. My suggestion is still to chill, and close the tab/window with this discussion. Set yourself a timer and don't check for the update being dropped for the next 12 hours. You will not loose anything, since you are not a professional youtuber, who might be dependent on being the first to report on the update. "What", you say, "but I am a professional youtuber!" No, you are not, or you would simply watch for the "update is out" message and get on with your job. That said, go out now and play some old KSP, so that you can better appreciate the changes when the update drops. Or do something completely different even! We just wanted updates because literally everytime Squad says "soon" to console players it's literally like months before something is dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisias Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 hour ago, KosmoNot79 said: What does/would this mean? Non Disclosure Agreement. Essentially, "you want to work with us? Sign this agreement where you will agree on not talking anything we don't want you to talk about the work, otherwise we will sue your pants off" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick99898 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 This thread is exploding. Anny comments from the devs on what's going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Kerman Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, Nick99898 said: This thread is exploding. Anny comments from the devs on what's going on? That's been this entire page of conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lein Armweek Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, dr.phees said: @Lisias: You are absolutely right. Usually Squad tells what is happening. This might really be a NDA thing. Also to people requesting requiring Squad to write daily reports on their progress: What would you really gain? You would wait the same time and make developers write more documentation (which developers seriously hate). That would further eat into their development time. My suggestion is still to chill, and close the tab/window with this discussion. Set yourself a timer and don't check for the update being dropped for the next 12 hours. You will not loose anything, since you are not a professional youtuber, who might be dependent on being the first to report on the update. "What", you say, "but I am a professional youtuber!" No, you are not, or you would simply watch for the "update is out" message and get on with your job. That said, go out now and play some old KSP, so that you can better appreciate the changes when the update drops. Or do something completely different even! U think we need to be youtubers to be frustrated ? Who are to tell people how frustratrd they should be or not? Somehow if we aren't pro utubers we just should not express frustration? My suggestion to you is to let the developers take it and if you aren't one of the "profesional" developers then maybe you should check back in 12 hours, or tab it or what ever.. Edited March 24, 2019 by Lein Armweek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo5144 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) "We just wanted updates because literally everytime Squad says "soon" to console players it's literally like months before something is dropped." no ! its wrong . squad work every time on this game . you prefer bug or stability ? wait 5 or 6 day ... no urgence ... Edited March 24, 2019 by jojo5144 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lein Armweek Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 On 3/23/2019 at 1:12 AM, T1mo98 said: I think people take for granted just how complicated this game is probably to code. So many mechanics need to work together and just one small problem with any piece of code could cascade and break everything. They got to make sure everything works properly, and if that means pushing back release dates, than so be it. No, I don't agree. Actually I do, but the last part... "Pushing back release date, than so be it" Don't agree with that. It's hard to code sure. But do all that with in the time you said. Just like the other profesional game makers. You think we are being to demanding here? We are paying costumers don't forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lein Armweek Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 6:43 PM, Snark said: They never give you a release date. They give you a release date, and then stick rigidly to that date and ship a product with bad problems. To me, both of those alternatives sound worse than what they've done, but I understand that not everyone wants or likes the same thing. So what would you have preferred that they did instead, and why? I want them to accomplish within the given date. And want them to stick to it rigidly to that date and and release the product with out problems. You know why? Cus I'm paying money. And then I would not be mad. And also because our modern structure of capitalism in society works this way. When u underachiev there is consequences. We are those consequences. They should take some personal responsibility. This is what is in our power to do and we are doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chel Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lein Armweek said: This is what is in our power to do and we are doing it. The only thing you're doing is targeting the devs and pressuring them when they did a good thing. I'm getting tired of saying this, but would you complain about the bugs if it released on the 21st too? Better to take time to do things than rush it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lein Armweek Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, The_Cat_In_Space said: The only thing you're doing is targeting the devs and pressuring them when they did a good thing. I'm getting tired of saying this, but would you complain about the bugs if it released on the 21st too? Better to take time to do things than rush it It's a good thing to be delayed? [snip] How does this logic work? Do u really belive this? Read it to your self out loud. It's good for businesses to be late with their product even if the consumer masses have waited already a long time and are frustrated. It's good to underachiev. .... They violated their own timeline. That means that they by their Own standards did bad. I'm getting tired of your conformist attitude. Keep your expectations standards to your self if you can't handle other having higher standards. Edited March 24, 2019 by Gargamel Portions Redacted By Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostu Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 33 minutes ago, jojo5144 said: "We just wanted updates because literally everytime Squad says "soon" to console players it's literally like months before something is dropped." no ! its wrong . squad work every time on this game . you prefer bug or stability ? wait 5 or 6 day ... no urgence ... Dude do you even play on console?! The last update we got was 6 months ago meanwhile pc gets regular updates and patch fixes. The last update they did release was broken and they didn't even bother to release a patch or "delay the release to fix the bugs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostu Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said: The only thing you're doing is targeting the devs and pressuring them when they did a good thing. I'm getting tired of saying this, but would you complain about the bugs if it released on the 21st too? Better to take time to do things than rush it They didn't lose any sleep when they released the last update for console and that was basically unplayable for most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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