jnbspace

When do you think it is fair to revert?

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I generally play without allowing myself any reverts ... unless ...

I lose a Kerbal when they or the game does something stupid that I deem unlikely to happen in reality. So if I have a space ship spin wildly out of control and plough straight back into the launch pad (as I did only moments ago) no reverts allowed. On the other hand if one of my Kerbals manages, as one did only yesterday, to kill themselves by falling off the top of the spacecraft when it was still on the ground then that I will allow as a revert. I reason that you generally would not have an astronaut so thick that they would fall off their own spaceship thus it is unrealistic and revert is allowed.

So what are the self-imposed rules you play by?

 

Edited by jnbspace
typo

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I revert if things don't go as planned in any way. The first run-through is now a "computer simulation". 

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If it's for aircraft, if I take off and my plane starts flipping out I immediately revert. If it's for a rocket, I'll see if it even launches. If it gets up in the sky but then flips and is going to crash, I'll revert. I don't revert once in orbit as that seems pointless

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Any time there is an issue with aerodynamics that could have been sorted out beforehand in the wind tunnel the KSC mini-biomes say we have but we don’t have a scene for.

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I have the most fun playing by the seat of my pants. While I am perfectly capable of doing the math -- I don't. So, I slap together my craft with little regard to aerodynamics -- and I mostly don't bother with maneuver nodes. I mostly just guess on my dV costs. This allows me the fun of watching things go wrong. And then I revert, because I'm playing career mode with 40% rewards (or less).

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I play to learn; not so much to challenge myself.  I quick save before anything dangerous, e.g. landings, take-off from a rough field, approaching a large space station to dock.  There's no point in repeating a whole mission from Kerbin because something went wrong in the latest maneuver.  I'd rather revert and practise the maneuver until I can do it reliably the next time (and not have to revert).  Time is precious.  (Personal preference how you want to have fun.)

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4 hours ago, GoatRider said:

I revert if things don't go as planned in any way. The first run-through is now a "computer simulation". 

Right. I figure that when NASA, SpaceX, or whoever designs a rocket it goes through thousands of hours of design, wind tunnel testing, computer simulations, etc. So if my rocket is a bit too draggy on the nose and it goes flipping engine up when I start the gravity turn, then I assume that's something would have been caught during the planning phase.

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Moving to KSP Discussion, since this is more of a discussion among players than a question about how the game works.

As for the original question,

20 hours ago, jnbspace said:

I generally play without allowing myself any reverts ... unless ...

I lose a Kerbal when they or the game does something stupid that I deem unlikely to happen in reality. So if I have a space ship spin wildly out of control and plough straight back into the launch pad (as I did only moments ago) no reverts allowed. On the other hand if one of my Kerbals manages, as one did only yesterday, to kill themselves by falling off the top of the spacecraft when it was still on the ground then that I will allow as a revert. I reason that you generally would not have an astronaut so thick that they would fall off their own spaceship thus it is unrealistic and revert is allowed.

So what are the self-imposed rules you play by?

...my rule is that I'm wide open on reverts.  I save frequently, and have zero qualms about reverting to any point whenever I want.  :)  Because that's what's fun for me.

That doesn't mean I revert every time something untoward happens.  Coming up with creative solutions to unexpected problems, a la Apollo 13 or The Martian, is one of the fun bits of the game for me.  ;)  My happiest, proudest moments in KSP are when I figure out some brilliantly clever workaround to my earlier stupidity.

However... not all problems are created equal.  Some aren't a challenge, they're just a hassle.  Let's say I spent a lot of time building and designing a ship and launch it to orbit, only to discover I've forgotten to put something necessary on it (like solar panels, or an antenna).  It's just an aggravating oversight; I'm not going to derive any enjoyment from trying to work around that.  So I'll revert it back to VAB without batting an eye.

...All of which are just a bunch of words that boil down to this:

This is a game, and I'm playing it to have fun.  Fun is the whole point.  So when something potentially revertable happens, the only relevant question, for me, is this:  Is it more fun to revert?  Or is it more fun to figure out a way around the problem?  And then I do whichever one is more fun (or less un-fun).

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When I am in sandbox, anything goes, unless a challenge forbids it.

 I only play hard mode career now, so it is not even an option. There are more occasions now when KSP's code for certain parts kills more Kerbals than I do.

But it does go back to your own personal feelings when reverts are justified.

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If I screw up, I play it through.

If the game screws up*, I revert.

 

*This includes the brain-damaged automatic staging decisions that sometimes happen.

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No reverts of things that made it into space, more or less. Well, there are exceptions, like when I forget something really crucial, like a docking port on a space station module, or parachute for an interplanetary science probe with intent to return.

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Literally any moment after clicking "launch" is a fine time to revert. I don't ever even feel a pang of doubt about it.

You may as well ask at what point is it not okay to click the IVA button.

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I utilize the tools that I am given, and I don't feel no qualms about it.  I'm prone to making a new tool if I feel like it too.

My base thoughts on the matter: I use my kerbals as learning "instruments"...If I have to hit F5, and F9 a couple times before I learn the perfect re-entry angle for my current trajectory to circularise at Laythe...good. 

All the better when you learn about CUSTOM saves (ALT + F5) and go back to your Jool inclination burn, and re-adjust after learning about a "Tylo gravity capture" ;)

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I'm playing with KOS, even if I'm using code I know is robust, I'll usually do a few "simulated" takeoffs to work out the launch profile.  When I'm testing new code I revert all the time, I've just finished something I've been playing with for a couple of evenings so probably have put in 3 or 4 hours real time for zero game time as I keep loading from save to test stuff.  

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I use revert

1. Because I don't like losing precious Kerbonauts.

2. Because of loading times.

There's nothing wrong with long loading times, especially if that loading time goes to simulating a whole solar system. But what I find aggravating about KSP is that there's no insta-VAB without having to revert, so I go to the KSC after a long 5-10 sec loading time then I immediately have to wait another loading time a la Sonic 06, leading to me just always reverting. 5-10 seconds may not be much to some but it certainly drags on when you're really looking forward to testing a new vehicle. I might post something to the suggestions like a proper scene selector where you can instantly access anything (E.g. Mission control, SPH, Main Menu) and choose to revert to last time the vehicle was loaded. I'd also like to be able to choose to repair the launchpad from the "Launch pad is not serviceable" dialogue menu.

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Pre-flight "computer simulation" and bug recovery. Even when I don't plan to use it in a career game to up the challenge (ie force myself to include crew "safety" systems in my designs), I always leave the option enabled in case something happens and it definitely isn't my fault.

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I only revert if it's very clear a bug in the KSP software caused the catastophe. Anything else I live with and suffer the consequences, including dumb mistakes on my part, forgetting to check my staging or forgetting to add parts, failing to test something unmanned before dong the real thing, etc. I don't even revert if a kerbal slips and falls -- I accept that kerbals (moreso than humans) flub up sometimes.

Mind you, I'm not saying that anyone else who plays differently is superior or inferior in any way. This is just how I personally play.

Edited by Xavven

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I revert all the time. My career has grown to a point where harming Kerbals is no option. Having Kerbals in orbit gives me sleepless nights, so all my Kerbs are actually on vacation at the beach so i don`t have to worry about reverting a launch.

Next time when i meet my brain plumber i`ll tell him about.

Spoiler

jMzKX1r.png

 

Edited by Mikki

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I revert and quickload all the time, because real space programs have rooms full of engineers and scientists figuring out whether the rocket will flip or explode or not, whereas I’m just one guy. Plus, they’re essential when you encounter the occasional gamebreaking bug.

However, if I find myself in a situation that I reckon will be fun to try and salvage, I won’t quickload and instead see what I can do to save the crew and/or mission.

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Reverting when I don't have KSP loaded is a firm rule for me. I'm very strict on that.

Otherwise, anytime that makes sense.

 

Edited by purpleivan

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I revert all the time. It isn't reality and you don't have an entire organization of qualified proffessionals each looking after individual aspects of the mission so I can focus on operating the craft. You're already starting with a handicap in my opinion.

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I try really hard to only revert (or even quickload) when it's a clear bug/game error, or when one of the mods I run decides to glitch out. Or when something I've built can't function the way I want it to (like solar panels being seen as 'shrouded' because I moved them too close to the hull) and don't have a way of seeing they won't work right until the craft is actually in flight/a ways along in it's mission.

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I usually have the difficulty option that disallows reverts turned on, but with the full knowledge that I can go into the saves/backup directory and find a few autosaves from over the last hour or so.  Using those I know I could exit back to the main menu, manually copy down one of those backups on top of the persistent.sfs file, and then go back into the game.  That is a way to manually "revert" if I absolutely need to.

I leave it like that to discourage me from reverting on a whim.  I leave it so that reverts take a bit of manual dinking about in order to force me to take the time to think it over and decide if it really seems fair.

My two cases where I feel justified in a revert are:

1 - When I decided *ahead of time* that this was going to be a simulation, so I committed myself to the notion that I wouldn't be allowed to save this result even if it worked.  I like the KRASH mod for this because it forces me to declare *before I know if it's going to work* that this one doesn't count.  I don't like having the freedom to wait and see if it worked and when it does deciding "okay that wasn't really a simulation this time, let's keep that one".  Because that's not how simulations work.  When simulating a thing in the real world people do eventually have to decide to do it for reals, and when they do that then they can't retroactively declare it was just a simulation after it crashes.  And they can't do the opposite either - when something was a simulation and it worked, they can't go, "Well, since that worked lets make a rift in time and space and move the vessel from the alternate universe of the simulator out here into the real world and that way we've already done it".

2 - When I make the judgement that it's definitely caused by a bug I couldn't possibly have been expected to do anything about or react to.  For example, I was playing GAP (giving aircraft a purpose mod) which has contracts with big penalties that fail the mission and cost enormous money any time a part of the vessel breaks.  I built a plane and spawned it on the runway.  The game spawned the plane *already* clipped through the ground on scene-load, causing it register that as a collision and get flung 10 meters up in the air as soon as physics started.  When it came down and broke parts off, I considered that a bug, not my fault, and did a manual revert.  (I subsequently learned that those landing gear I was using from a mod have this bug frequently, and stopped using them).  Other examples of the kind of buggy thing I feel justified in using a revert for are bad scene switches where your vessel loads under the surface of the Mun and starts falling in (haven't seen that one in a while thankfully), or when a terrain polygon "collider" was missing so as my rover drove over it, so it started diving under the terrain, clipping through the surface so only the top was showing when it rammed into the edge of the next terrain polygon and exploded.

 

Edited by Steven Mading

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19 hours ago, Steven Mading said:

I usually have the difficulty option that disallows reverts turned on, but with the full knowledge that I can go into the saves/backup directory and find a few autosaves from over the last hour or so.  Using those I know I could exit back to the main menu, manually copy down one of those backups on top of the persistent.sfs file, and then go back into the game.  That is a way to manually "revert" if I absolutely need to. 

 

 

I found out that you can press esc, go into options, turn on revert, and then revert. When you do, it reverts your options too, so reverts are turned back off. And if it matters to you that the difficulty says "Hard" instead of "Custom", it actually does switch back to "Hard" (if you were using the Hard template to begin with). I treat it like a safety switch -- I'm not tempted to revert against my personal rules, but if there's a game bug then I will do it.

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