totm nov 2023 Thread to discuss negative things in a very general way, just see where it goes y'know?

[kerbiloid]

Wearing since seven, for last thirty five years both -5.5, while actually I have no idea how much the eyes are. 
Definitely different and unlikely -5.5, but I got used to -5.5 since school, and any change feels uncomfy. The adjustable human brain is a thing. It saves your money.

Never actually needed them for anything but reading and feeling fully confident.
Always easily did without them in street and so on. Just the shop captions are hardly readable and faces are hardly recognizable, but why need them. No other discomfort but this.

A specific problem was to take aim through a dioptric sight, was always feeling better with an open one.

[TheSaint]

51 minutes ago, tater said:

BTW, I used to buy glasses on eyebuy, now I have been using zenni. Cheap as dirt, and they seem to work fine. My wife got an eyebuy pair that became her faves for cheap—but they stopped making the frame. Now she gets them at some fancy place in Santa Fe such that every pair she gets costs some multiple of the total I expect to spend on glasses the rest of my life assuming I live to be 100 (cause my round ones are like $25!).

Story time.

So, I always had problems with eyeglass frames. The Navy issued me my John Lennon spring-temple glasses:

And I wore those for half a decade after I got out. But, I always had break-outs behind my ears. Zits, scabs, nastiness, however you would like to refer to it. It wasn't a disaster, it was just a nuisance. so I ignored it. I always thought it was just a problem with the serrations in the spring temples (mine didn't have those fancy rubber coatings on them).

So, it's 1997, I've moved to South Africa, and I need to go in for my annual eye exam. And, as can be expected when you move to the other side of the world, I don't know anyone from Cain. So I ask a co-worker, and she referred me to her optometrist. I go in to see her, she gives me the full eye exam. But she sees the mess behind my ears, and she says, "Oh, you poor thing, you have a nickel allergy." And, I think she's putting me on. I've never even heard of being allergic to a metal. But she's all, "No, really. It's the nickel in the stainless steel. You need titanium frames." And now my Spidey-sense is really going off. I'm sure she's just trying to up-sell me on some nonsense. So she says, "No, it's true. If you don't believe me, here's what we do. You pay for the lenses, and I will give you the titanium frames for free. You come back in two months, and if your ears haven't healed up, you can keep them." And that is what we did. And two months later, I walked back into her shop, and handed her cash for those frames. Never had a problem since. And, I kid you not, 25 years later, I still have them. I go back in every other year or so and have the optometrists cut new lenses to put in them. Same frames. I love those glasses.

[kerbiloid]

Titanium is good and strong, but bad for sharpening. Not good for ninjas.

13 minutes ago, TheSaint said:

"Oh, you poor thing, you have a nickel allergy."

So, you can't hold a plutonium pit for long time. It's coated with nickel.

[TheSaint]

2 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Titanium is good and strong, but bad for sharpening. Not good for ninjas.

So, you can't hold a plutonium pit for long time. It's coated with nickel.

Well, yes, but, there may be other issues at hand there as well....

[Selective Genius]

Ferrari, man. Why does Ferrari love to hurt us like that? And why do I love the pain?

[kerbiloid]

1. Ferrari knows that you love pain, and is hurting you to make you happy.

2. You love pain because this turns your defeats into wins.

[DDE]

"So how was your first day at school?"

"...magmatic."

School assembly in North-Kurilsk continues against the background of eruptions from Ebeko

Background words are a fragment of a teacher dispensing canned platitudes before inviting another class to the stage

Edited September 1, 2022 by DDE

[Pthigrivi]

I started the project I'd hoped to start tuesday afternoon at 2:00 today, wrapped it before close. Meetings killed this week but Im probably 20h behind. Win? lose? I can't even tell anymore. Reality is weird these days. 

[StrandedonEarth]

These things are far too addictive. They make it far too easy for my body to fatten up for the winter...

Must be the HFCS Does not contain HFCS! But still 13g sugars per 3 cookies...

Edited September 6, 2022 by StrandedonEarth

[Geonovast]

17 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

These things are far too addictive. They make it far too easy for my body to fatten up for the winter...

*Adds to grocery list*...

[Pthigrivi]

Am I the only one who thinks the new LOTR show is actually kinda good? 

[kerbiloid]

Only those who think so were able to sustain the watch, so the positive answers are a survival bias.

[Pthigrivi]

7 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Only those who think so were able to sustain the watch, so the positive answers are a survival bias.

I don't know if thats statistically accurate but I'll put you down as "not me". I don't know Im a big Silmarillion fan and I thought it was fun. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[Rutabaga22]

School, everything about it, except for the learning.

[razark]

8 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Am I the only one who thinks the new LOTR show is actually kinda good? 

I enjoyed it enough to keep watching.  I don't really know much of the lore it's based on, so I can't complain about that at all.

[Pthigrivi]

9 minutes ago, razark said:

I enjoyed it enough to keep watching.  I don't really know much of the lore it's based on, so I can't complain about that at all.

Yeah I mean its undeniably gorgeous. The costumes and set design are incredible. I think it's cute seeing how "young" Galadriel and Elrond came to be who they are, keeping in mind elves live their lives over thousands of years. Also pretty fun seeing who I have to believe is Gandalf plummeting to earth for the first time. I mean we'll have to see if the writing holds up and there are real teeth there but it's a promising start. 

Basically the problem is the Silmarillion, while fascinating, is for most people practically unreadable. It's just endlessly dry and dour and the narrative is all from 100,000ft with zero charm or humor or even dialog. But as a reader you project a lot of that into it because you grew up on the Hobbit and LOTR and you know all thats there, kinda hidden. As an idea for a project diving into that negative space between what's cannon and whats like, messed up cannon cause JRR wrote down 5 different ideas before he died and what we all believe to be there because he breathed so much life into he is other work is a pretty noble--if impossibly difficult--endeavor. What I like is that the charm is there. They didn't take it all so mind-numbingly self-serious. Again, like, is it going to make us cry? Cause it should. If it can its going down in history. If not it'll be just a well-intentioned but flawed experiment. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Im a big Silmarillion fan and I thought it was fun. 

Silmarillion? Somewhere in that movie was Silmarillion? I need to check deeper.

[Pthigrivi]

43 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Silmarillion? Somewhere in that movie was Silmarillion? I need to check deeper.

Yeah so they jump in at this interesting section that Tolkien kind of yada yada yadas through, where Numenor hasn’t yet revealed itself and Sauron sneaks in and pretends he’s reformed and fools Celebrimbor into forging the rings which he then tries to enslave everyone with. At some point here I expect the Numenoreans to ride into the rescue when the elves and dwarves realize they’ve been deceived and we get the first war of the ring. Whether we keep going through the creation of the Ring Wraiths and the capture of Sauron and the fall of Numenor I guess we’ll all just have to wait and see. 
 

And I know some goofuses have gotten all worked up about black hobbits but the Harfoots are frequently described as dark skinned and nobody seems to remember the Moriquendi exist and its all made up anyway? Like the weirdest thing to be hung up on. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Pthigrivi

[tater]

Saw the trailer. Hard pass. Too much of a fan of the books to not get angry (I had enough problems with the movies)

[razark]

5 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Also pretty fun seeing who I have to believe is Gandalf plummeting to earth for the first time.

My first reaction was "Oh, it's gotta be Gandalf!", but that's just too easy an answer.  I'm expecting a twist to it.¹  As I said before, I'm not familiar with the lore, but I've heard² that it's too early for him to show up in the story³.

Much like the movie, though, I don't really care if it exactly matches what existed before.  The movie was a different interpretation of the story⁴, and the one and only movie of The Hobbit was a different interpretation, as well.  Further, Tolkien himself wasn't exactly breaking new ground.  Much of his stuff was taken from existing material, just rearranged.

 

¹(Which probably means it is Gandalf, since they'll flip everybody's expectations by expecting that everyone will expect them to flip their expectations.)
²There is nothing of note here.
³Why do you keep reading these?
⁴The rotoscoping was kind of odd, though  And they left out the third volume of the book, too.

Edited September 7, 2022 by razark

[Pthigrivi]

32 minutes ago, razark said:

My first reaction was "Oh, it's gotta be Gandalf!", but that's just too easy an answer.  I'm expecting a twist to it.¹  As I said before, I'm not familiar with the lore, but I've heard² that it's too early for him to show up in the story³.

So yeah technically the wizards aren’t supposed to show up till the 3rd age, after the battle we see at the beginning of the LOTR movies where Isildur cuts the ring from his finger. Maybe who we’re seeing isn’t Gandalf and they’re sticking with that, at the same time this was something Tolkien changed his mind about half a dozen times and is only really cannonified by his son Christopher Tolkien’s efforts to bundle all his notes into something sensible.  So if Gandalf shows up and hangs out with hobbits before advising the elves 1000 years early it doesn’t actually matter. 

[kerbiloid]

Olorin (aka Gandalf) first arrival to the Middle Earth.

Spoiler

Olorin's beard and hairdo origin.

(Also, of the hobbits' "pipe-weed")

Spoiler

[Superfluous J]

17 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Am I the only one who thinks the new LOTR show is actually kinda good? 

Not by a long shot. I am liking it as well and think it has a shot at being the best stuff in the LotRCU (lol) that Jackson started over 2 decades ago. It's certainly better than anything in the Hobbit trilogy.

8 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

Also pretty fun seeing who I have to believe is Gandalf plummeting to earth for the first time.

While Gandalf was my first thought, I don't really think that's reasonable. We'll see, though.

I kinda thought it may be Sauron reborn. I mean, some version of him has to get friendly enough with everybody to gift them a bunch of rings, right? Or am I remembering that all wrong? Sauron gave away a bunch of rings of power and everybody was like "oh man that's awesome thanks dude you did us a solid" and then he was like "oh yeah by the way I have the ring that controls all of them and you're so boned now" and they were all like "dude what the what man that sucks"

Paraphrased, of course.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Superfluous J

[DDE]

7 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Sauron gave away a bunch of rings of power and everybody was like "oh man that's awesome thanks dude you did us a solid" and then he was like "oh yeah by the way I have the ring that controls all of them and you're so boned now"

Secret backdoor? True story right there...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/

[kerbiloid]

I still conspirologically insist that both answers are right, as while Gandalf the Gray is was authentic Olorin, "Gandalf the White" is actually Sauron.

So, in any case you discuss the Gandalf's arrival, the question is just which one of Gandalves.

***

We know that there was a Maiar descent, known as Istari.

Obviously they knew each other personally, and Sauron as  the best one of Maiar, too.

Total body count is unknown, but all but five disappeared before playing a role.

Then the couple of Blue Wizards was happy with each other, and walked off into the sunset.

Only three left: Olorin aka Gandalf, Curumo aka Saruman, Aiyiffwendil aka Radagast.

At the call of Alatariel aka Galadriel they had founded the White Council to rule them all.
In addition to these four the Council included Cirdan, Elrond, probably Celeborn, maybe Glorfindel, and some honored species of inferior races.
The Council met twice, mostly in the same cast.

The domesticated humans can be excluded from consideration.
They were looking with understanding eyes full of adoration, but from the talk of Maiar and Noldor could get not more than a dog from the master's speech, even if wagging their tail.

Elrond is just a semi-human mudblood, so he is also unlikely a reliable witness.
Not totally a muggle... but compared to others from the Council, yes, totally.

Since their marriage, Celeborn is Alatariel's private property, so he can be considered as a furniture.

Radagast dove into the furry fandom and vanished from wordly fuss.

Cirdan is a noble elf* Teleri, but he's Sindar, and hasn't visited Westworld Valinor.
So, he hasn't been touched by the Light of the Energetical Trees, and isn't enLightened to feel a Maiar true nature.
_{* Btw is it politically correct to call Tolkien elves "elves"?}

***

Saruman was under siege in Orthank after the Gray Gandalf's Escape, so he didn't have a chance to investigate White Gandalf, and never met him close.

The only meeting of the two Whites happened at the end of the siege, when White Gandalf destroyed Saruman's wand from safe distance.

So, Gray Gandalf was significantly weaker than Saruman and was captured and imprisoned.
Gray Gandalf wasn't able to defeat Balrog.

But White Gandalf just did it.

And as a side effect, without the wand and the force, Saruman lost his magic power, so was not able to distinguish true and fake Gandalf.

***

So, in the whole Middle Earth, besides Galadriel, only her probable far cousin Glorfindel was personally acquainted with authentic Gandalf and (being a Calaquendi) was enough spiritual and enlightened to be able to distingusih true Gandalf from a fake one (if that fake is another Maia).

Others were either not enough noble, either busy with flea counting, or just had no idea who is Mr. Gandalf.

In the past, Glorfindel had a fight against a dragon, against balrogs, died in a fight with one, but returned from the Mandos pet cematary Halls.

Just like Gandalf, except the Mandos part, as Olorin is not an elf.

Also he owns a white  superfast and clever horse (Asphalot) and a special sword, just like Gandalf (with Scadufax).

Both horses got owned by them after their return from the afterworld.
(Gray Gandalf just was temporarily using Scadufax, and became its owner only as White Gandalf)

It's said that due to this reincarnation, Glorfindel  got almost Maia-like.

And what can play a role, he was returned at the same time when Sauron made his Ring stuff and rebuilt Mordor.

And look, its exactly Glorfindel who defeated or repelled the Nazguls every time they met.
Without fear he sends away the horse with hobbits, and the Nazguls can do nothing against him, but almost everywhere submit his orders.
Like Glorfindel is their actual patron.
Like he returned together with the Rings creation not just coincidentally.
If he indeed returned, as Glorfindel looks not so important figure to release him from Mandos Halls.
If the "returned" Glorfindel is indeed Glorfindel.
If the "returned" Gandalf is indeed Gandalf.

In the Elrond Council both Glorfindel and Gandalf meet each other.
But this is Gandalf the Gray, not the White one.

 

During the War of Ring Glorfindel commands an army in various places, but Gandalf the White is doing his deeds anywhere else.

Gandalf the White and Glorfindel should theoretically meet again, on the Arwen and Aragorn wedding.
And both are mentioned there. But Glorfindel is in the Arwen's suite, while Gandalf the White is like always present everywhere.
So, while both are officially at the same place, there is no evidence that anyone had seen them both at the same time.

Later both Gan and Glo follow the elvish procession to the Gray Haven.
And then Glorfindel disappears from the scope.

So, as we can see, the returned Glorfindel is a carbon copy of Gandalf the White.
Like if they are the same.

Btw, the words that Sauron isn't now able to take a pleasant form, belong to Glorfindel, lol.
Like if Sau told Glo about that himself.

***

Let's recall the bio of Alatariel.

She left Valinor to get a personal kingdom, for vanity and thirst for power.
She joined the suite of Maya Melian and became her closest apprentice.
She told Melian about the Valinor escape, but didn't tell about her family role and the Teleri ships.

She feels fine with one of Three Rings on finger, exactly like Gandalf the White with another one.
(The third one is Cirdan's.)

Celeborn was a brave warrior and a king before he met her, and he is totally objectified to the moment of the hobbits' arrival.
When she has left the Middle-Earth, Celeborn again becomes a king (of Imladris/Rivendell, as Laurelindorenan/Lorien was owned by Galadriel's granddaughter Arwen (who also owned Gondor via her marriage with Aragorn)).

We can see that the marriages of Alatariel herself, her daughter Celebrian, and her granddaughter Arwen have a common feature. 
They find and possess a royal person of origin lower than theirs and become a queen of his kingdom, soon attaching it as a part to the Alatariel possessions.
Alatariel > elf Celeborn,
Celebrian > semi-elf Elrond.
Arwen > human Aragorn.
Lorien, Rivendell, Gondor.

So, Alatariel is an insidious, power-hungry, egocentric person,
She opened the truth to the hobbits in the moment of candor, when she was sure that stupid hobbits won't understand anything (and they didn't), Aragorn and Gimli are thinking with another place than head, and Legolas fully belongs to her party. 

As we can see, actually Sauron and Alatariel have absolutely same aim, to take over the Middle-Earth.
And they are absolutely same in sense of means and moral.

So, they are natural allies at least until their final battle.
And the final target is not the Middle-Earth, it's just a springboard.
Both remember the light of Silmarils belonging to the Valinorian Trees (and previously Lanterns), and their real aim is Valinor.
They are a natural couple like Melkor (Sau's patron) and Ungoliant (actually, a formless creature of primordial Chaos rather than an actual disgusting bug.)

***

So, the pre-history looks this way.

After the defeat in the battle Sauron was unincarnated (or maybe made others think so) and disappeared from the radars.

But soon he returned as a White Horse Rider, cosplaying the real Glorfindel (who was KIA and never returned).
Between the humans and elves he was an epic hero.
He was easily defeating Sauron creatures (because they didn't dare to oppose their creator and owner), reinforcinghis authority.

At the same time Sauron the "Glorfindel" was rebuilding Mordor and growing its armies.

Soon he became the Rivendell commander-in-chief.
So, is it any wonder that nobody was paying attention "wut happens in Mordor?", as everyone was feeling calm, having such great warrior and hero on top.

At the same time he formed an alliance with Alatariel and Cirdan.
Alatariel  obviously knew who is the "returned" "Glorfindel", while Cirdan was Sindar and living on his own planet.

For better performance he inspired Celebrimbor & Co. to forge Three Rings, and encharmed them.
For better secrecy, Sauron "Glorfindel" didn't wear the third ring himself, using elvish placeholders for that.

The "Istari" quickly dissipated, so only Saruman and Olorin aka Gandalf the Gray left as opponents.

***

Silly Saruman did the job himself by self-isolating in the tower as a true nerd, and separating from possible allies instead of owning them.

He was easily blocked  and removed.

***

Gandalf was more sneaky, he was gathering elvish and human forces against Sauron (maybe treating Alatariel as an ally, maybe not, we will never know this for sure.)

To distract everyone's attention, Sauron also created The Ring, a spectacular golden artifact with stylish runes, making its owner invisible.

And let everyone know that his power is contained in this ring, and they just can't without each other.

So, the elves and Gandalf were sure that if destroy this ring in Orodruin, Sau will be gone.

Of course, it was a total bullsheep.
The only power of this ring was to make its owner invisible, and at the same time be a flashing beacon to mark his position.
Everything other was known only from Bilbo Baggins words and his good health and long age
(A piece of cake for Maia Sauron or for Melian's apprentice Alatariel, to let the hobbit live several decades more.
Especially if after his adventures he gets drunk twice less often than other co-villagers. Hobbits just didn't try to stay sober and eat a little bit less.)

Old dire lone wolf  just married bear Tom Bombadil quickly figured out that the ring is a shiny piece of fluff for a fairground carnival.
So, he just sceptically several times threw it up and returned to the hobbits their Precious.
His wife Goldberry was just smiling.
Tom (formerly known as Beorn) told her about the funny company of dwarves and a hobbit having visited his home a century ago. So, she wasn't surprised.
Also, do you really expect that a thin, ethereal, beautiful girl is living in the forest with cannibal trees and barrow-wights, with a maniacally looking husband, because she is a naive and good-natured creature?
(Many were thinking so before you. Old Man Willow can confirm this.)

Spoiler

 

***

To protect the hobbits and the Ring in their trip to Rivendell and then to Orodruin, Sauron sent Nazguls.
Every potential danger was peeing and rushing away from the hobbits way when heard the Nazgul screams.

Also it was a guarantee than four uncouth idiots will follow the road driveway _lol .

Of course, hobbits again had proven that their stupidity will defeat any evil wizdom and were getting into traps one by one.
So the only way to deliver these four to Rivendell in one four pieces was to send free Nazguls hanging out nearby, stab Frodo with something painful, to make them hurry up.
To be sure that this time everything will go normal, Sauron appeared there as "Glorfindel", gave them a horse, and sent the Nazguls away.

***

In Rivendell, Sauron as "Glorfindel" was present on the Elrond Council, knew everything he wanted to, and caused a snowstorm in the mountains to make them go to Moria.

At the Moria gates, the four hairy-legged idiots had managed to find a giant octopus right in the lake.
(Sauron even didn't know that they exist.)

For several unpleasant hours Sauron was waiting while the company of four puzzle solvers, one wizard, one king of scouts, one elf, one  prince, and a dwarf (not so much wise, but it was a dwarvish palace!) were trying to understand that "say the word" sometimes means just "say the word".

Finally they got into, and Gandalf the Gray was neutralized just as planned, while others happily escaped from a huge crowd of goblins and trolls kinda trying to catch them.

***

Now the company had passed to the Alatariel's palace, where they were fed, cured, washed, and rested.

Also Alatariel had given three hairs to the dwarf, visibly obsessed with love.
It guaranteed that one member of the party will slice others up at her only word, so it gave her a control.

She gave to Sam a seed of mallorn.
It was not a trap, it really was just a seed of mallorn, and a little bit of fertility charming. No lie.
The more mallorns will grow in Shire, the sooner the former Shire will become another part of her overpowering forest.

Frodo received a flask with superbright flash.
Just a non-lethal self-defense weapon, which appeared to be very useful.

Legolas got an advanced bow and arrows.
Because he is in service and needs to be armed to serve.

***

Meanwhile Sauron appeared as "Gandalf the Wihte", indistinguishable from "Glorfindel", with absolutely same story of miraculous rescue.
It was just to save his time and not bogging down in details.

He was just riding from place to place. Here they were thinking it's Gandalf the White, there they were sure he is Returned Glorfindel.
Both parties were wrong.

***

The war part is not very interesting.

Invisible to everyone, Sauron was driving waves of his creatures, and was defeating them here as Gandalf, there as Glorfindel.
The creatures weren't able to oppose their master.

***

When the hobbits had reached the Mordor, Sauron had to send orcs to bring them closer before they could break a leg, die from thirst, or do anything else stupid.

Even in the Chambers of Fire it was not without adventures.
A totally mad and naked degradant known as Gollum, following the hobbits, grabbed the Ring and jumped into lava, turning the solemn moment of Sauron's triumph into a facepalming monkey show.

So, Sauron as Gandalf the White raised his wand, and the self-destruction system eliminated the Orodruin and Sauron's army, making everyone sure, that the Master of Evil is defeated, and everyone may relax.

***

So, Gondor was affiliated with Lorien (and its new queen Arwen later has passed to Lorien).

Shire got mallorned. Of course, in Sam's days it was only one mallorn. But waiting for several centuries is nothing for Laurelindorenan.
Several hundred years later Shire, Bombadil Forest, Fangorn disappeared from the Lorien map. 

Rivendell and other elvish incubators were mostly abandoned, then populated by elves coming from elsewhere and ruled by Alatariel's husband Celeborn to attach it to Lorien, then reabandoned again.

The elves proceeded to the Gray Havens where the Sauron and Alatariel ally Cirdan was a king, boarded and left the Middle-Earth.
Other elves joined later, and Cirdan were sending the elfstock vessels one by one. When the Middle-Earth was out of elves, he left it himself, as his duty was over.

Sauron as at once Gandalf the White and Glorfindel was taking part in the first batch of elves, together with Alatariel.
Once he had boarded the ship as "Gandalf", nobody saw "Glorfindel" again.

***

So, while terraforming  commandment was preparing the Middle-Earth to become Great Lorien (without elves), Sauron and Alatariel sailed over to the West, to show the Noldor who is boss in the house.

The elves were going there just to be possessed by the new Valinor owners.

As we know, the Third Epoch finished by the space-time collapse, turning the Middle-Earth... planet... into a sphere.
The Valinor was encapsulated.

Edited September 7, 2022 by kerbiloid