Parachute deploys in wrong direction (sometimes)

[linuxgurugamer]

I'm working on updating an old mod, B9 Shuttle Style Wings.

It has a vertical fin with an integrated airbrake and parachute.

This part has two problems.  The first is that the center of the drogue lines of the parachute are about 1/2 meter below where they should be.  I was able to fix that using Blender 2.8 (but have no idea how I did it )  However, the big problem is that sometimes, depending on where the part is on a plane, the chute will deploy backwards, but the drag is still correct.

The entire mod is here (unfinished): https://www.dropbox.com/s/5i2mf4i7chyox6x/B9ShuttleWings-Beta2.zip?dl=0

The part is called B9_Shuttle_TailWing

While I would obviously like to get this fixed, I'd also like to learn how to fix it.  I have Blender 2.80beta + @taniwha's excellent .mu addon so that I can both import and export a .mu file

I thought it might have been the orientation of the part, so tried rotating it 90 degrees, but it's not saving the part rotated.

The really strange thing is that when I save it as a .blender file, and then load it, it saves it properly.  It's only when exported as a .mu that it seems to revert to the original settings

In addition, the rudder part sometimes moves in the wrong direction (ie:  Give it left rudder, but it moves to the right).  The two problems are probably related

Thanks in advance

Edited April 19, 2019 by linuxgurugamer

[gap]

Hi linuxgurugamer, I have read your PM, can you please be more specific on the following point?

On 4/13/2019 at 10:52 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

sometimes, depending on where the part is on a plane, the chute will deploy backwards

Namely: which chute placement(s) relative to the horizontal plane, cause the chute to deploy backwards?

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, gap said:

Hi linuxgurugamer, I have read your PM, can you please be more specific on the following point?

Namely: which chute placement(s) relative to the horizontal plane, cause the chute to deploy backwards?

It's somewhat random., but my impression is that it may be related to how far forward it is, but then again, I've had it go the other way.   Best I can suggest is to try it 

[gap]

26 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

It's somewhat random., but my impression is that it may be related to how far forward it is, but then again, I've had it go the other way.   Best I can suggest is to try it 

Okay for a start I will install the mod and I will play a bit with it (though I have to learn how to build an airworthy plane first lol). One last question: have you tried flipping the chute model over the axis of its deployment? I know this fix might sound too obvious to actually work... but you never know if you don't try.

[linuxgurugamer]

55 minutes ago, gap said:

Okay for a start I will install the mod and I will play a bit with it (though I have to learn how to build an airworthy plane first lol). One last question: have you tried flipping the chute model over the axis of its deployment? I know this fix might sound too obvious to actually work... but you never know if you don't try.

I have no idea how to do that.  

Let me know if you want a test ship which shows the issue.  No need to fly, this happens on the ground, at taxi-ing speeds

Edited May 8, 2019 by linuxgurugamer

[gap]

31 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I have no idea how to do that.  

I have no experience of modding this game, but I know how to flip a 3D mesh once it is imported in Blender or any other 3D editing program.

As I read, there is a Blender plugin for importing/exporting directly from/to the KSP 3D format, so I guess no problem here.

34 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Let me know if you want a test ship which shows the issue.  No need to fly, this happens on the ground, at taxi-ing speeds

Yes please!

[gap]

One last idea for today: have you tried deploying the parachute while your craft is still flying? I think that would be useful to exclude some odd chute-ground interaction as the culprit of your problem...

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, gap said:

I have no experience of modding this game, but I know how to flip a 3D mesh once it is imported in Blender or any other 3D editing program.

As I read, there is a Blender plugin for importing/exporting directly from/to the KSP 3D format, so I guess no problem here.

Yes please!

Here you go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1khh0qv86e5x1u0/B9DemoPlane.zip?dl=0

Just put the plane on the runway, start the engines and get moving, then hit the space bar.  The parachute will go backwards

[gap]

4 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Here you go:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1khh0qv86e5x1u0/B9DemoPlane.zip?dl=0

Just put the plane on the runway, start the engines and get moving, then hit the space bar.  The parachute will go backwards

Okay, I will do that tomorrow, now it is late night here ;-)

...and this is a reminder in case you missed my last post:

5 minutes ago, gap said:

One last idea for today: have you tried deploying the parachute while your craft is still flying? I think that would be useful to exclude some odd chute-ground interaction as the culprit of your problem...

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by gap

[linuxgurugamer]

9 minutes ago, gap said:

One last idea for today: have you tried deploying the parachute while your craft is still flying? I think that would be useful to exclude some odd chute-ground interaction as the culprit of your problem...

Happens in flight as well

[gap]

@linuxgurugamer 

Sorry for not giving any feedback in the last two days, I didn't put the buggy parachute issue on the back burner but I had busy days. Hopefully I will get time to run some tests on Sunday 
 

[linuxgurugamer]

On 5/10/2019 at 2:15 PM, gap said:

@linuxgurugamer 

Sorry for not giving any feedback in the last two days, I didn't put the buggy parachute issue on the back burner but I had busy days. Hopefully I will get time to run some tests on Sunday 
 

ping

[gap]

7 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

ping

Sorry 

I think this afternoon I will have some free time and I will check that parachute

[gap]

Hi @linuxgurugamer 

I have finally tested your and gilbr0ther's work, flying the testing aircraft you had uploaded here a few days ago and deploying its chute at various speeds in flight and before take off.
Unfortunately, during none of my tests (about ten) I was able reproducing the odd behaviour described by you. How commonly  on your rig the chute deployed facing the wrong direction? Have you checked if some other mod that you have installed or some game setting might mess with it?

I will keep trying, so please let me kwow if you have other idea or any suggestion on how to induce the bug

[linuxgurugamer]

Hmmm.  Ok, I'll try in a different install this evening

[linuxgurugamer]

Were you running 1.6.1 or 1.7?

[gap]

Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

Were you running 1.6.1 or 1.7?

1.7.0,  x64 version

[linuxgurugamer]

If you can, can you try it in 1.6.1?

[gap]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

If you can, can you try it in 1.6.1?

I guess so, I just need to learn how to download an older version of the game from steam. Is that the version that you are currently running?

[linuxgurugamer]

I was testing in 1.6.1, but am trying it in 1.7 now.
Sadly, it happened here, in a new game with the same plane

Regarding Steam, do the following:

Right-click on the game in the Library, select Properties

Click on the BETAS tab

In the top dropdown, select the version you want steam to install

 

[gap]

22 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I was testing in 1.6.1, but am trying it in 1.7 now.
Sadly, it happened here, in a new game with the same plane

That's odd... I have tried replicating the problem many times now, not to avail. How common is for you the event of the chute deploying incorrectly? Could you describe exactly what you are doing? Could some physic setting (that we possibly have set differently in our respective games) be related to the problem?

22 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Regarding Steam, do the following:

Right-click on the game in the Library, select Properties

Click on the BETAS tab

In the top dropdown, select the version you want steam to install

Roger that! Now it is  a bit late and tomorrow I need to wake up early, but in the afternoon I will carry some more tests in KSP 1.6.1, and I will send to you the   I will collect  

[linuxgurugamer]

54 minutes ago, gap said:

That's odd... I have tried replicating the problem many times now, not to avail. How common is for you the event of the chute deploying incorrectly? Could you describe exactly what you are doing? Could some physic setting (that we possibly have set differently in our respective games) be related to the problem?

Roger that! Now it is  a bit late and tomorrow I need to wake up early, but in the afternoon I will carry some more tests in KSP 1.6.1, and I will send to you the   I will collect  

 

I think I figured it out.

The attach node was misplaced and at the wrong angle.  So, if the fin was placed exactly right, the animation for the parachute goes in the wrong direction; exactly right meant being exactly 90 degrees vertical.  The normal KSP editor isn't so exact, but I use Editor Extensions, and was hitting this most of the time.

I have some more testing to do, but much happier now.

Only thing left is to move the parachute up so it is coming out of the base of the fin rather than a meter below

[gap]

8 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I think I figured it out.

The attach node was misplaced and at the wrong angle.  So, if the fin was placed exactly right, the animation for the parachute goes in the wrong direction; exactly right meant being exactly 90 degrees vertical.  The normal KSP editor isn't so exact, but I use Editor Extensions, and was hitting this most of the time.

I have some more testing to do, but much happier now.

I am glad that you found the culprit at last.
I wish I could help more, but why on my install of the game the problem didn't show up?

 

8 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Only thing left is to move the parachute up so it is coming out of the base of the fin rather than a meter below

Is that something that can be done by simply moving parachute object's 3D coordinates upwards  (relative to the fin mesh), or there is some other setting that must be tweaked?

[linuxgurugamer]

46 minutes ago, gap said:

I am glad that you found the culprit at last.
I wish I could help more, but why on my install of the game the problem didn't show up?

 

Is that something that can be done by simply moving parachute object's 3D coordinates upwards  (relative to the fin mesh), or there is some other setting that must be tweaked?

I had to change the attach_node, it was configured wrong.

Re. your game, are you running editor extensions?

[gap]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I had to change the attach_node, it was configured wrong.

Re. your game, are you running editor extensions?

No, I am not. Should I?