Jump to content

Notre Dame on Fire


DarkOwl57

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Why? Anyway the spire was added just in XIX century, afair.
And solar panels are both symbolic, safe, useful, and much better than toxic and heavy lead.

They used lead only due to the lack of solar panels. Just look at its windows made of colored glass.

P.S.
Also the gargoyles are nice place for cameras and fire hoses.

Edited by kerbiloid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Each time it was renovated (and even during the time it was being built) something was changed. Artistic tastes shift, and new, contemporary styles replace the old ones that went out of fashion, so why not add something signifying this period?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While we are laughing, actually they have a rare chance to upgrade it to the modern technological level: make it eco-looking.
A colored glassy roof covered with solar panels, like if continuing the colored glassy windows,  making it "glass-and-stone".
The stones partially replaced, partially reinforced with metal. A 3d steel pattern colored like wood, and so on.

Edited by kerbiloid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, LordFerret said:

Notre Dame has stood for 800 years, so far.  I can't think of one single steel (or iron) & concrete building to date that even comes close to that claim.

I agree. Although, to be fair, steel and concrete construction has only existed for a hundred years or so. And it is not inconceivable that we could produce steel and concrete structures with that kind of durability. Look at the Iron Pillar of Delhi, for instance.

Edited by TheSaint
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, LordFerret said:

Notre Dame has stood for 800 years, so far.  I can't think of one single steel (or iron) & concrete building to date that even comes close to that claim.

I sure can, and hold the steel.

The dome of the Pantheon in Rome is more than twice as old as Notre Dame and built from unreinforced concrete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

The Iron Pillar is made of bad hand-made pre-steel iron.

And yet it has stood there, uncorrupted, for at least 1,600 years. (And probably withstood a cannonball strike.) I think we can do just as good, if not better. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

The Iron Pillar is made of bad hand-made pre-steel iron.

*Wrought iron.

Wrought iron is actually more malleable than steel.

2 hours ago, LordFerret said:

Notre Dame has stood for 800 years, so far.  I can't think of one single steel (or iron) & concrete building to date that even comes close to that claim.

Pantheon ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Why? Anyway the spire was added just in XIX century, afair.
And solar panels are both symbolic, safe, useful, and much better than toxic and heavy lead.

They used lead only due to the lack of solar panels. Just look at its windows made of colored glass.

P.S.
Also the gargoyles are nice place for cameras and fire hoses.

 

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

While we are laughing, actually they have a rare chance to upgrade it to the modern technological level: make it eco-looking.
A colored glassy roof covered with solar panels, like if continuing the colored glassy windows,  making it "glass-and-stone".
The stones partially replaced, partially reinforced with metal. A 3d steel pattern colored like wood, and so on.

It's an 800 year old church not a monument to being eco friendly. You can put solar panels on your local church not on Notre Dame. As for adding your "artistic elements" from the modern era... I do not want a painting that is a yellow scribble next to the paintings that stood before. This is a cathedral not a modern art project. Secondly why are you "laughing" ?

10 minutes ago, YNM said:

*Wrought iron.

Wrought iron is actually more malleable than steel.

Pantheon ?

Pantheon concrete is differant the modern concrete

 

do not mind this Below ... it was an accident

10 minutes ago, YNM said:

 

Wrought iron is actually more malleable than steel.

Panthe

Edited by Cheif Operations Director
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, YNM said:

Sorry, but mix design has matured better today than when it was the time of Pantheon.

 

I saw the video I know it better I'm just saying that they are different 

If I reminder correctly (going to rewatch in a second) the Roman concrete was better for dealing with weather but not the loads if structures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

I saw the video I know it better I'm just saying that they are different 

They're not.

1. We already started using pozzolans and fly ash to reduce the amount of silicates, because silicate production produces a lot of CO2. Roman Concrete utilized them as well. There're a lot more on this end which the romans would never be able to do, including superplasticizers and fibre reinforcement.

2. We use rebars to enable our concrete structures to handle tension, while theirs didn't. Why does it matter ? See "Oxide Jacking". But you can't make Burj Khalifa out of Pantheons...

3. It just makes no economical sense to make a normal building to last 2,000 years - but sometimes we do design things for being long-lasting when failures would be an utter catastrophe - ie. dams.

These points are discussed (or mentioned) in the video I linked. My take is that you didn't put much attention to it.

Edited by YNM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, YNM said:

They're not.

1. We already started using pozzolans and fly ash to reduce the amount of silicates, because silicate production produces a lot of CO2. Roman Concrete utilized them as well. There're a lot more on this end which the romans would never be able to do, including superplasticizers and fibre reinforcement.

2. We use rebars to enable our concrete structures to handle tension, while theirs didn't. Why does it matter ? See "Oxide Jacking". But you can't make Burj Khalifa out of Pantheons...

3. It just makes no economical sense to make a normal building to last 2,000 years - but sometimes we do design things for being long-lasting when failures would be an utter catastrophe - ie. dams.

Ok 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Pantheon concrete is differant the modern concrete

You beat me to it.

 

5 hours ago, YNM said:

Oxide Jacking

This is but one reason modern buildings won't last... don't last.  The first iron / steel & concrete construction was in the mid-1800's, and this deterioration has been long evident.

 

Granite!

 

 

In another note;  I read some commentary today about how the recent interior / exterior (?) laser scan of Notre Dame isn't expected to be of much help in reconstruction efforts.  If I run across the article again I'll post a link.

Edited by LordFerret
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LordFerret said:

This is but one reason modern buildings won't last... don't last.  The first iron / steel & concrete construction was in the mid-1800's, and this deterioration has been long evident.

 

Granite!

I suggest to use the well-known technology: stone casting. Sometimes reinforced with a steel matrix.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Камнелитейное_производство

http://www.mining-enc.ru/k/kamennoe-lite/


https://www.google.ru/search?q=каменное+литьё&newwindow=1&client=opera&hs=KKl&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwihpejjy9vhAhVIw4sKHS9CDzsQ_AUIDigB&biw=1920&bih=980

You melt basalt or diabase and make a stone of desired shape.
If necessary, you cast the melted stone into a metal pattern. Then you get an armored stone.

In "Last Castle" by Jack Vance the castles were built from this.

Using the steel pattern, you can also attach the artificial stones like any metal parts,

7 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

It's an 800 year old church not a monument to being eco friendly. You can put solar panels on your local church not on Notre Dame.

If you ask the initial Notre Dame builders, they would definitely answer: "Moar colored glass!", I guess. They loved it, look at the large windows.
The lead was used just from necessity.

(Don't forget: the gothic buildings do not use walls to carry something. They are a pattern of bars and columns.
Everything between the bars and columns is just a weather screen. It doesn't need massive roof. That's why these huge glass windows.)

Quote

As for adding your "artistic elements" from the modern era...

Weren't the spire and most of gargoyles added in XIX, after the Hugo's book.

Edited by kerbiloid
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, LordFerret said:

This is but one reason modern buildings won't last... don't last.  The first iron / steel & concrete construction was in the mid-1800's, and this deterioration has been long evident.

Except for mass concrete (ie. dams).

But you can always increase the cover depth if you need it so badly. There are also sulphate-resistant cement/concrete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Shpaget said:

It certainly was a modern art project when it was built, and each time it was renovated.

 

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

Like what we call "classic music" is a pop music of its times and tools.

 

Oh good grief these are styles of construction and style sir art. When I say modern sculpture art I'm referring to the art that is all the odd shapes put together. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

Of course it's believable. They didn't have circuit breakers in 12th century.

They also did'nt have circuits in the 12th century any circuitry would have a circuit breaker

Edit: not saying it's arson

38 minutes ago, Messier said:

Apparently, the cause of the fire was a short circuit. Seems believable, but it could've also been arson.

Perhaps but I'll go with the official story for now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...