GoldForest

A 'night mode' for VAB and SPH

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I was playing around with KSP and just realized, we have no way to see what our crafts would look like in the dark except to launch them, time warp to dark, then if we don't like it, go back into the VAB/SPH, edit, rinse and repeat. 

So my suggestion for this topic:
Add a lights out or night mode in the VAB and SPH, to allow us to see what our crafts would look like in the dead of night. 

Further more, maybe add a slider to control how bright or dark the lights out/night mode is. 

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52 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

I was playing around with KSP and just realized, we have no way to see what our crafts would look like in the dark except to launch them, time warp to dark, then if we don't like it, go back into the VAB/SPH, edit, rinse and repeat. 

So my suggestion for this topic:
Add a lights out or night mode in the VAB and SPH, to allow us to see what our crafts would look like in the dead of night. 

Further more, maybe add a slider to control how bright or dark the lights out/night mode is. 

I kinda hate to say this, but there is a mod for this. Or at least used to. "Lights Out" I believe it is/was called.

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Personally I'd just like the outside of the editor to reflect the current time at the KSC. Instead of constant daylight.

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19 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Personally I'd just like the outside of the editor to reflect the current time at the KSC. Instead of constant daylight.

Yes, at the moment all we see out of the doors of the VAB and SPH is a static texture. Even if time doesn't actually pass in the editor, I'd like to see the scene outside actually change.

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52 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Yes, at the moment all we see out of the doors of the VAB and SPH is a static texture. Even if time doesn't actually pass in the editor, I'd like to see the scene outside actually change.

Not actually. Thanks to mods like HangerExtender, you can actually see buildings like Mission Control from the Space Plane Hanger, and the launchpad in the background when in the VAB, which can also appear wrecked (as I learned recently). So I actually think (though cannot confirm with hard evidence so this is just a conjecture) that the editor scenes use the actual KSC and just deload certain assets and load in a skybox and white/teal fog effect to blur the distance. Since the buildings are 1:1 with their real counterparts. Minus scenery inclusions like props (mk1-2 memorial, monolith, fuel silos, etc) to maximize performance and using a reduced texture for the terrain.

Just a guess though. This would support why Squad hasn't jumped on it already though. Since there would be a lot of overhead to clear and replace if that was the case.

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Posted (edited)

Sounds like an excellent quality of life improvement to me. I mean, the 1.6 Dv widget in the builders showed us that they can implement sliders into applets, so a time of day part would work fine in the changing aspect.

Edited by Fraston
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Posted (edited)

This sounds like a nice feature for the game, especially  for those who spend time in the VAB and SPH; I would like to see a brightness adjuster along with this, so you can test out lighting configurations(which I like to mess with)

Edited by lapis

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21 hours ago, Dafni said:

I kinda hate to say this, but there is a mod for this. Or at least used to. "Lights Out" I believe it is/was called.

 

18 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

It was outdated and abandoned, but then picked up by @linuxgurugamer

It's only listed as 1.6.1 compatible, but I wouldn't be surprised if it works fine.

I'm suggesting this as a Stock implementation. I realize there is a mod, but I've been finding myself playing pure-stock a lot lately, and a lot of people do go stock only KSP runs, so I figured I throw on Squad's Suggestion desk. 

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if we get a night time VAB it would be amazing to see the kerbal workers running about in their pyjamas, perhaps with a few pillow fights going on!  the trucks could be replaced with jet-powered bunk-beds!

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Posted (edited)

Nothing big, so not to complicated and just to my liking. I always disliked I had to first make sure it was night to begin with, then actually launch the vessel to activate the "lights" to see how it looked like. Then to make it worse, actually fly the vessel to make sure if the angle of the lights was properly adjusted.
I have the light setting for nighttime as darkest as possible (some setting in the main menu) as I like to simulate night landings. That's not everyone's cup of tea, it is mine.

Using the "Illuminator mk1" which is the greater spotlight you can use a angle to see the ground below, another light at another angle to see the ground at a angle in front, and one or more up to the headlight shining directly forward, mind you these can be landing gear lights.

With this you can rotate the ship in the VAB and SPH to see the light effect on the ground directly on the editor floor. You can also rotate the ship any way to see all angles of the vessel as they would look in space.

@GoldForest Whenever you agree, may I suggest more stock lights to be incorporated and a all lights on/off in the editor to complement the whole idea further.

Edited by Aeroboi

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8 minutes ago, Aeroboi said:

may I suggest more stock lights to be incorporated and a all lights on/off in the editor to complement the whole idea further.

This is a great idea. More lights and a light switch in the editor could be the theme for a new release. ;) 

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On 4/30/2019 at 6:15 AM, Dafni said:

I kinda hate to say this, but there is a mod for this. Or at least used to. "Lights Out" I believe it is/was called.

So what if a mod for this already exists? It’s a small, purely visual change that in no way changes the actual gameplay. A mod for something already existing shouldn’t immediately eliminate the possibility to add it to the stock game. Features from mods have already been added to the game before, so why should this be any different?

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2 hours ago, Jack Joseph Kerman said:

So what if a mod for this already exists? It’s a small, purely visual change that in no way changes the actual gameplay. A mod for something already existing shouldn’t immediately eliminate the possibility to add it to the stock game. Features from mods have already been added to the game before, so why should this be any different?

Could not be said any better. Burn time indicator, Asteroid day, Mk2 plane parts and C7 are great examples of this.

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“There’s a mod” isn’t a viable solution to all the console players either.  

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2 hours ago, Jack Joseph Kerman said:

A mod for something already existing shouldn’t immediately eliminate the possibility to add it to the stock game

I wouldn't worry.  From what I've read, most people here have a very similar opinion; mods indicate something people want in the game.

It is, of course, thoughtful to point out when there is a relevant mod. The original poster and anyone interested in the topic, if they play on PC, is likely want to try the mod. 

A mod is also a concrete reference point from which to say "well, generally like that mod but ...".  In this case, I think we want to have exactly the function of LightsOut in the stock game.

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Posted (edited)

Wow... the Stock Purist flag is definately waving high in this thread...

First, people mention that there is a mod that does something, because there *is* a large majority of players that dont mind, or dare I say, even *like* playing, using mods.

Second, mentioning that there *is already* a mod that does something, shows that its highly likely it *could* be added stock KSP.

Third, if theres enough mention and discussion, and *interest* in said mod or function there of, Squad may say "Hey!... theres an interest in having this in stock, and a mod did it, so maybe we should look at how that could be added to stock...

Fourth, at one point, Squad actually hired quite a few mod devs, and the mods of those devs, in one form or another, *were* actually added to stock.

Fifth, I find it so funny how people say they want to see something in stock, which a mod already does, snub noses at it... *then* when it does make it into the stock game, they cheer... :shrug:

On topic, there was a mod that was even *better* than LightsOut, called DimmableVAB.
kmxx5gh.png

But when bac9 completely redid the hangar interiors, it completely, unfortunately broke DimmableVAB. I mention that, because that means one less method to have this feature added to stock.

LightsOut also got broke a little, IIRC. LightOut used to be darker. bac9 (sort of unfortunately), baked all the emmissive lighting from the wall and ceiling lamps into the textures... so they can no longer be switched off or dimmed.
I mention *this*, because it probably makes it a little harder to to add a good way to switch the lights off in the hangars, unless the hangar textures were to be reworked.
And thats not likely to happen, unfortunately.
 

Edited by Stone Blue

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2 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

baked all the emmissive lighting from the wall and ceiling lamps into the textures

Unbaked lighting has an impact on performance. If you search back through the forum archives, you'll find some old information with people having overheat and/or excessive CPU load problems in the editor. This was primarily due to lighting issues (along with a couple other things).

 

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9 hours ago, Jack Joseph Kerman said:

So what if a mod for this already exists? It’s a small, purely visual change that in no way changes the actual gameplay. A mod for something already existing shouldn’t immediately eliminate the possibility to add it to the stock game. Features from mods have already been added to the game before, so why should this be any different?

I perfectly agree with you. And I never stated otherwise. I was merely pointing out the existence of the mod for the OP or whoever is interested or dont want to wait for a stock implementation.

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On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 3:12 AM, Aeroboi said:

Nothing big, so not to complicated and just to my liking. I always disliked I had to first make sure it was night to begin with, then actually launch the vessel to activate the "lights" to see how it looked like. Then to make it worse, actually fly the vessel to make sure if the angle of the lights was properly adjusted.
I have the light setting for nighttime as darkest as possible (some setting in the main menu) as I like to simulate night landings. That's not everyone's cup of tea, it is mine.

Using the "Illuminator mk1" which is the greater spotlight you can use a angle to see the ground below, another light at another angle to see the ground at a angle in front, and one or more up to the headlight shining directly forward, mind you these can be landing gear lights.

With this you can rotate the ship in the VAB and SPH to see the light effect on the ground directly on the editor floor. You can also rotate the ship any way to see all angles of the vessel as they would look in space.

@GoldForest Whenever you agree, may I suggest more stock lights to be incorporated and a all lights on/off in the editor to complement the whole idea further.

I agree. I don't think a simple on and off switch for the lights would be too demanding, and if anything, it would actually HELP with loads by turning off the lights. 
As for more stock lights, yes. I think there should be many more lights. 
Including, but not limited to:
A tiny light about the size of the Linear RCS thruster
New Launch Stabilizers with adjust flood lights
Mountable flood light arrays
Inline light modules
And maybe some gimic lights. Such as a disco ball, a neon sign, and a neon strip (pimp my space shuttle anyone?)

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Claw said:

Unbaked lighting has an impact on performance.

Yes... Thanx for pointing that out... I forgot to mention *why* bac9 baked the lighting into the textures... Its a shame that KSP (Unity?) has always been performance hampered when rendering such a (seemingly) limited amount of light sources in a scene.

Edited by Stone Blue

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, GoldForest said:

I agree. I don't think a simple on and off switch for the lights would be too demanding, and if anything, it would actually HELP with loads by turning off the lights.

Yesss... I agree... It shouldnt be too demanding... since the LightsOut mod does *exactly* this... and yes, technically, performance might be slightly better with the unbaked light sources turned off... however, very little gain for the effort to add this function to stock, possibly... I mean, yeah, how much time would you spend in the editor with the lights off? .. only enuff to check placement/throw of light parts, and maybe to see the pretty effects of windows?... vOv

4 hours ago, GoldForest said:

As for more stock lights, yes. I think there should be many more lights.

I could usually care less about adding moar parts to stock, as I find mods usually supply moar than an adequate plethora of parts... and usually IMHO, better than stock, so added stock parts would be just unecessary overhead and bloat for the way *..I...* play...
However, I wouldnt argue your point at all, as I realise the other of the spectrum should have plenty of stock parts to choose from.

Now, having said *that*...

4 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Including, but not limited to:
A tiny light about the size of the Linear RCS thruster
New Launch Stabilizers with adjust flood lights
Mountable flood light arrays
Inline light modules
And maybe some gimic lights. Such as a disco ball, a neon sign, and a neon strip (pimp my space shuttle anyone?)

Yes, it *would* be nice to have all this...
However, it comes back to what Claw pointed out: that more active light sources affect performance... so the moar light parts you put on a craft, its as bad or worse than performance loss when you add moar parts... and if there were moar kewl light parts, who would be able only use one or two? You know people would want to plaster dozens of these parts on their craft/space stations... then everyone would wonder why their FPS dropped to a practical slide-show... ;)

IIRC, tho I'm sure I wont get this right, KSP defaults to being able to handle, like, 8 light sources at once? ... as you raise that number, performance drops significantly... there is a setting for it in the game's Graphic settings...

So, to get closer to on-topic, and to reiterate... Turning the lights on/off in the hangars, is *NOT* as simple a matter as you might think... the way the game is now, about the best we could hope for in stock, is exactly what LightsOut does... Its a switch that turns off the few active light sources, and only *dims* the hangar lighting...

So its probably a small tweak, for little gain... and I have no clue, but if they add code to do this, who knows what the chance is that it could introduce bugs or issues into the game?... Plus, they have to consider the long-term effects of adding/changing features to the game...

When the lighting effects were baked into the hangar textures is perfect example. They made that change to address an actual performance issue, but they had to give up future possibilities of being able to customize the dynamic lighting in the editors... ie, being able to turn the lights on/off in the hangars... :P


So, yes, there *would* be moar work than you would think to do something so simple as turn lights truly on/off... ;)

Im not trying to stop or stiffle dicusion of this... Its actually good if people discuss things like this... as if there is enuff of it, it may show Squad there is enuff of a demand to look at and consider adding things like this to the game...

 

Edited by Stone Blue

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

IIRC, tho I'm sure I wont get this right, KSP defaults to being able to handle, like, 8 light sources at once? ... as you raise that number, performance drops significantly... there is a setting for it in the game's Graphic settings...

So, to get closer to on-topic, and to reiterate... Turning the lights on/off in the hangars, is *NOT* as simple a matter as you might think... the way the game is now, about the best we could hope for in stock, is exactly what LightsOut does... Its a switch that turns off the few active light sources, and only *dims* the hangar lighting...

So its probably a small tweak, for little gain... and I have no clue, but if they add code to do this, who knows what the chance is that it could introduce bugs or issues into the game?... Plus, they have to consider the long-term effects of adding/changing features to the game...

When the lighting effects were baked into the hangar textures is perfect example. They made that change to address an actual performance issue, but they had to give up future possibilities of being able to customize the dynamic lighting in the editors... ie, being able to turn the lights on/off in the hangars... :P


So, yes, there *would* be moar work than you would think to do something so simple as turn lights truly on/off... ;)

Im not trying to stop or stiffle dicusion of this... Its actually good if people discuss things like this... as if there is enuff of it, it may show Squad there is enuff of a demand to look at and consider adding things like this to the game...

 

Well, some people like to throw one or two dozen lights on their craft, then wonder why their vessel runs sluggish. But that is over the top in my opinion. For functionality I'd use 3 lights to look in front, in front and below and directly below. Then a light to visualize every angle of the spacecraft, these are 6 points. Using more then 1 light to illuminate on side of the craft usually overcasts the light so much the vessel becomes bright white. That looks stupid to begin with and I always seemed weird when I looked at these ships. The last reason for a added light is at a docking port  with which you would connect. Let's say these are 2 then that adds 2 more lights.

So that's 11 total, that's shouldn't cripple most computers  plus several of those 11 could be landing gear lights. If it were a craft without docking ports that would be 9 parts.

Also it is the spotlight ray that mostly cripples the performance. Neon or other forms of low level cosmetical light would only be there to add colors, airplane lights or other such things. That would have less effect on performance.

Also it would be a good idea to add a toggle to the current lights for different colors so we don't need extra parts. To be blunt, I like the models of the current lights although the part textures could have an update. Maybe have a truss option like on the MH engines so they can have the rail and the feet of the Mk1 and Mk2 taken off.
Also have texture selections for the light as on the MH parts so you can turn the black casing into white, grey or any alternative form.
One thing I dislike about these lights is that the stock fuselage colors are mostly white with black thrown in on the stripes while the casings for the mk1 and mk2 lights are light dark, may I suggest we get a white option.

Edited by Aeroboi

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15 hours ago, Claw said:

Unbaked lighting has an impact on performance. If you search back through the forum archives, you'll find some old information with people having overheat and/or excessive CPU load problems in the editor. This was primarily due to lighting issues (along with a couple other things).

@Claw what sort of effort  would it take to duplicate the VAB/SPH interior without the baked in lighting? 

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