Kerbal Joint Reinforcement - Next

[Rudolf Meier]

I found the problem... thanks to the data from @Sijet

what I learned is this:

1) it only happens with DLC robotic parts, never with Infernal Robotics

2) This is because of the different construction of those parts. DLC parts don't move. They remain where they are and build a helper part that moves, while Infernal Robotics doesn't need this additional helper and moves directly.

3) Because those DLC parts don't move, they shouldn't be used as anchor points for additional reinforcement-joints.

... now I need to change that ... but I first have to find the best way to do it...

[Rudolf Meier]

I have a new version now that should solve this DLC robotic problem... but it's simply stupid what I had to do... that's why for the moment it's out as pre-release or beta

[Critter79606]

@Rudolf Meier Why does CKan show "any" under Max KSP version for your KJRN?

I've spent the last hour trying to figure out what happened to KJR.  I generally don't use any mods marked as "any" due to the fact you can't tell from CKan when it was updated last.

Thanks,

[Rudolf Meier]

22 minutes ago, Critter79606 said:

@Rudolf Meier Why does CKan show "any" under Max KSP version for your KJRN?

I've spent the last hour trying to figure out what happened to KJR.  I generally don't use any mods marked as "any" due to the fact you can't tell from CKan when it was updated last.

Thanks,

You have this situation for a lot of softwares. There are a lot of products with the information, that it needs at least Windows 8 or Widows 10 1607 to run. Normally there is no upper limit mentioned, until an incompatibility has been found.

You can see the release dates from github.

[qromodynmc]

Hello, i was making an f-14 with new stock robotic parts and stuck with a problem;

barebone robotic part works perfectly, robotic part with another part attached to it works too, but when you attach another part to part you attached before doesnt work, it stucks, it tries to move but it cant..

here i uploaded video of it, maybe you can tell whats causing to it. I wanted to post this here because removing kjr fixes the problem but i love kjr and dont want to cause 99 problems just to fix 1.

https://streamable.com/4ctur

 

[Sijet]

1 hour ago, qromodynmc said:

Hello, i was making an f-14 with new stock robotic parts and stuck with a problem;

barebone robotic part works perfectly, robotic part with another part attached to it works too, but when you attach another part to part you attached before doesnt work, it stucks, it tries to move but it cant..

here i uploaded video of it, maybe you can tell whats causing to it. I wanted to post this here because removing kjr fixes the problem but i love kjr and dont want to cause 99 problems just to fix 1.

https://streamable.com/4ctur

 

I'd guess it's likely the same problem @Rudolf Meier has been working on for the last few weeks... I belive he's testing it via a prerelease version... I've not had a chance to try again because I was doing a mission with little need for robot parts, you could check his github releases and install it manually to test the new version. 

[Rudolf Meier]

7 hours ago, Sijet said:

I'd guess it's likely the same problem @Rudolf Meier has been working on for the last few weeks... I belive he's testing it via a prerelease version... I've not had a chance to try again because I was doing a mission with little need for robot parts, you could check his github releases and install it manually to test the new version. 

That's true. It would be nice to get some feedback on this. If it is ok, then I can build/upload a final release.

[qromodynmc]

13 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

That's true. It would be nice to get some feedback on this. If it is ok, then I can build/upload a final release.

https://github.com/meirumeiru/Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement/releases/tag/v4.0.14

Im already using this one, is there another?

[Rudolf Meier]

5 hours ago, qromodynmc said:

https://github.com/meirumeiru/Kerbal-Joint-Reinforcement/releases/tag/v4.0.14

Im already using this one, is there another?

No, that's an interesting one. This is something I was working on, but maybe there's another special case in which it doesn't fully work. Can you download the debug version of it and try to activate the visualisation of the joints (not the default ones, but the additional ones added by KJRn)? What should happen is 1) you should still have the problem (that's one of the fixes I made) and 2) we should see which type of extra-joint causes the problem (from the color code).

[qromodynmc]

21 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

No, that's an interesting one. This is something I was working on, but maybe there's another special case in which it doesn't fully work. Can you download the debug version of it and try to activate the visualisation of the joints (not the default ones, but the additional ones added by KJRn)? What should happen is 1) you should still have the problem (that's one of the fixes I made) and 2) we should see which type of extra-joint causes the problem (from the color code).

to make it easier to understand, i opened whole wing contraption in second picture.

 

Hope i can help with it.

Btw i dont know why no one did before (maybe it's impossible?) but it would be nice if we had option to exclude parts from having struts in right click menu, like the autostrut option.

[Rudolf Meier]

6 hours ago, qromodynmc said:

Hope i can help with it.

Btw i dont know why no one did before (maybe it's impossible?) but it would be nice if we had option to exclude parts from having struts in right click menu, like the autostrut option.

Could it be that it's the magenta one? Is there a magenta line from a child to a robotic joint? ... could you play with the "Show" options to see which one it is? And turn off the "Show KSP joints" this is only showing the normal joints. ... would be interesting to see which one exactely it is... sometimes it's hard to see or overlapping.

The other idea might be something I could add... I have thought about it. But if we don't have bugs, I don't think it's needed (and all the problems we have now come from the DLC robotics which is pretty new... in some weeks we have solved it and then it won't be interesting anymore I think). And one of the ideas of KJRn was to remain fully in the background. But maybe I could still add it to the debug version.

oh, and I need your ksp version... what you describe is done differently in <= 1.7, 1.7.1 and >= 1.7.2 ... (and there is also a special case for < 1.6, but this is not related to this problem)

Edited July 23, 2019 by Rudolf Meier

[Rafael acevedo]

All, I am also having trouble with the DLC hinges {KSP 1.7.3}, so I built a simple contraption to test that might help recreate the issue. The basic craft is comprised of a z-200 battery, an okto 2 command pod, 2 small girders and  an  alligator hinge (you will add solar panels later). stack Starting with the battery at the bottom, then the command pod, a girder, alligator hinge, and the last girder. then launch. 

1. Try hinge- Works perfectly- return to VAB/SPH

Add 1 solar panel to the topmost girder, launch

Try hinge- Works perfectly- return to VAB/SPH

Add another solar panel opposite the one you already have, Launch

Try hinge- doesn't work, however notice that it did move slightly (a couple of degrees)- return to VAB/SPH

Hope this helps

[qromodynmc]

12 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

Could it be that it's the magenta one? Is there a magenta line from a child to a robotic joint? ... could you play with the "Show" options to see which one it is? And turn off the "Show KSP joints" this is only showing the normal joints. ... would be interesting to see which one exactely it is... sometimes it's hard to see or overlapping.

The other idea might be something I could add... I have thought about it. But if we don't have bugs, I don't think it's needed (and all the problems we have now come from the DLC robotics which is pretty new... in some weeks we have solved it and then it won't be interesting anymore I think). And one of the ideas of KJRn was to remain fully in the background. But maybe I could still add it to the debug version.

oh, and I need your ksp version... what you describe is done differently in <= 1.7, 1.7.1 and >= 1.7.2 ... (and there is also a special case for < 1.6, but this is not related to this problem)

Well yeah it's the magenta but; i did what you wanted, two extra part indeed has strut to robotic part, after disabling "reinforce existing joints", strut color change to blue;

then i disable other settings one by one, color stays the same till i uncheck every option, then it disappears and part starts moving. but at that point there is no joint left on craft either.

as for my game version,

main game is at 1.7.3,

breaking ground is at 1.7.1

making history 1.2.0,

they're all at latest version. Even if we cant solve this i guess i can live with debug version, it'll create bit of extra work but you gotta do what you gotta do

[Rudolf Meier]

3 hours ago, qromodynmc said:

...

*hmm* ... interesting. I thought I solved this one... extra joints from or to dlc robotic parts are not allowed. Maybe there's something wrong with the detection of it. I tested this one with the rotors and not the hinge.

I will check that when I'm back on my computer.

[Shkeiru]

Hi ,  little config question  and not so realistic tho...

I downloaded next and OPT/OPT legacy (both of them) and the wings (those two , not my ship https://imgur.com/RU8c5wm) are wobbling so i run

into the config file and gone from 5*10^12 to 5*10^84 for the angular drive spring and from 25 to 25000 for the angular drive damper and they are still wobbly... (this method worked in the previous version of ksp , 1.4.5 to be precise)

Have I missed something ? What are the option I should modify to make those wings stable at high speeds and avoid this : https://imgur.com/TJXnrXX ? 

EDIT : I'm in 1.7.3 with Breaking Ground

Thank you for for even reading this. And pls forgive my terrible spelling :S

Edited August 8, 2019 by Shkeiru

[Rudolf Meier]

11 hours ago, Shkeiru said:

Have I missed something ? What are the option I should modify to make those wings stable at high speeds and avoid this : https://imgur.com/TJXnrXX ?

Attach them to a heavier part. If you have small parts between large parts, this makes it unstable. It's better to attach them to a heavier part and then shift them around. This is generally true in KSP (and Unity games) and not related to KJRn.

[Rafael acevedo]

On 7/24/2019 at 9:25 AM, Rudolf Meier said:

*hmm* ... interesting. I thought I solved this one... extra joints from or to dlc robotic parts are not allowed. Maybe there's something wrong with the detection of it. I tested this one with the rotors and not the hinge.

I will check that when I'm back on my computer.

I know you been busy, but any luck finding a solution?

[Rudolf Meier]

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 7:23 PM, Rafael acevedo said:

I know you been busy, but any luck finding a solution?

hi

sorry for the delay... not yet, I wasn't at home first and when I wanted to start again I got sick, but the development has been restarted now...  

[Cruss]

I can use KJR with the hinges so long only the "reinforce existing joints" option is activated.

Any of the others will function as if you strutted the pieces wrongly and will not allow me to rotate/extend. 

Ingame auto strut functionality can break pistons and hinges aswell depending on craft specifics. Ie, if I want pivoting engines, that can also extend forwards/backwards. Built like so: a rotation servo > piston angled at 90 degrees > engine nacelle. I can autostrut the rotation servo on heaviest but not the piston usually.

I just leave all KJR options off except for reinforce existing joints and manually test if an autostrut affects functionally.

 

[Rafael acevedo]

1 hour ago, Rudolf Meier said:

hi

sorry for the delay... not yet, I wasn't at home first and when I wanted to start again I got sick, but the development has been restarted now...  

Happy you are healthy again.

[Jognt]

So if I get this right the main problem is that KSP does not notify modules/mods about whether a part is moving or not?

If so, maybe a feature request to Squad for that would be a good idea. Otherwise you’d have to write code that somehow manages to solidify parts while not solidifying stuff when it’s moving. Which is hard when you don’t know if movement is caused by joint flex or is intended. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Jognt

[qromodynmc]

I've been using the other kjr while waiting for update on this, it works but it's not stiff as this one, some long vehicles wiggle.

[Rudolf Meier]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 11:23 AM, qromodynmc said:

Well yeah it's the magenta but; i did what you wanted, two extra part indeed has strut to robotic part, after disabling "reinforce existing joints", strut color change to blue;

then i disable other settings one by one, color stays the same till i uncheck every option, then it disappears and part starts moving. but at that point there is no joint left on craft either.

as for my game version,

main game is at 1.7.3,

breaking ground is at 1.7.1

making history 1.2.0,

they're all at latest version. Even if we cant solve this i guess i can live with debug version, it'll create bit of extra work but you gotta do what you gotta do

ok, now I'm definitely back ... I'm now in the game (1.7.2 and 1.7.3) and... I used the 4.1.15 version of KJR Next (which maybe I haven't released yet... don't know...) but... here it doesn't happen... so, question: which version of KJRn is this that you're using?

... oh, I see... 4.0.15 has this bug. So it's in the part for the backward compatibility. The class detection for the versions 1.4 - 1.7.1 ...

Will be fixed soon and then I will release the two new versions (one for 1.7.3 and higher ... or 1.7.2? have to see... and one for the older versions... this will improve things for the newer versions)

Edited August 18, 2019 by Rudolf Meier

[kcs123]

8 hours ago, Rudolf Meier said:

Will be fixed soon and then I will release the two new versions (one for 1.7.3 and higher ... or 1.7.2? have to see... and one for the older versions... this will improve things for the newer versions)

Don't bother with older versions of KSP. Anyone that use KSP 1.7.x also use latest available 1.7.3. Previous versions of KJRn work just fine where is no need for DLC support. It is nice support backward compatibility, but it will burden your limited free time and it would bloat the code with obsolete stuff for latest KSP version. It will be more confusing when you need to revise code after several months of hiatus.

[qromodynmc]

Yeah I don't think there should be different versions for 1.7.x.