Kerbal Space Program Breaks Ground with a New DLC!

[Xavven]

3 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

It was not arbitrary, except that back in that month they announced that if you bought it then expansions would be free.

If they extended it now, years later, for you, why not extend it to June for me? Then July, August, etc?

Or how would you feel if you bought it early before KSP was famous and then others who did not take the chance got what you were promised was a reward for your generosity and trust?

Simple! They should extend the free-DLC deadline to include precisely the day I bought the game.

Edit:   /S  (for clarity)

Edited May 7, 2019 by Xavven

[Fraston]

Pre 1.4 buyers should get it free this time! It makes sense! Pre main release for making history, maybe pre-making history buyers get it free! Not some excuse!

Edit: NVM, I found the “next” variant. 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Fraston
...

[mindstalker]

2 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

Dude.  Kerbal's get rockets before cars.

Humans invented solid state rockets a 1000 years ago. Kerbals just weren't constrained by concepts like surviveability and oxygen, before strapping themselves above, besides, under a rocket to reach the stars.

[Epicdreamer]

4 hours ago, michal.don said:

Well, I'm on sort of a "KSP holiday" at the moment, haven't started the game for a few months to be honest, but I'm really looking forward to this - finally my shuttles will have proper robotic arms...  

And I have to say - I'm a bit surprised by the amount of negative reactions here. There have been more free updates (and substatntial ones, too!) in the last few months than most of us expected, and a lot of people are very angry about a DLC that adds a lot of additional content and possibilities to the game, for what I feel is a very reasonable price (even in my part of the world, there's not much you can buy for 15 dollars). What does it take to make people happy nowadays?  

Michal.don

Indeed! I cannot remember playing any game (or having any hobby for that matter) that costs less per minute than KSP,  even with the dlc's. No, the beauty that is KSP is very very cheap indeed for the playtime (and replay time...and again...and again...etc) you get.

[klesh]

This photo from the hires link makes me hope that planetary textures are going to get an overhaul in this DLC as well.  Look how bad the surface looks vis a vis the new surface feature:

Spoiler

I am however quite excited for the rover arm and deployable science experiments.  I've been pretending rovers and kerbals had something to do on the surface for years now as I'm sure we all have:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lastly compare the parachutes in these two pictures linked in the hires link from the OP.  Why does the parachute appear to be clipped into the jetpack on the pic with the pink crystals?
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by klesh

[linuxgurugamer]

12 hours ago, razark said:

Squad added aircraft parts in 0.15, and there are no mods that add airplane parts now.  And once they added in the communication network, whatever that old mod was ceased to be updated. 

Ummm, just off the top of my head:

• Airplane Plus
• Mk2 Expansion
• RLA Reborn
• SXT Continued

and there are others.  I literally thought of these immediately, without doing any searching

[mindstalker]

4 hours ago, M.M.I said:

Thank you DEVs!

• Now my scientists will have their own distinctive uniform style!
• I can remove KIS, KAS and SEP mods from current early career (1.7)  by knowing that, features I am interested in, are coming into stock, when I am further in career.
• New places to see, new places to go!
• I am happy to spend 15€ for this DLC.

Hoping for 

• Simple stock radiation science experiment like thermometer is.
• Some stock parts for planetary stations.
• Some sort of stock (simplified TAC/S.N.A.C.K/Kerbalism/USI) life support, as the surface experiments will take time, so will the kerbals need pass that time. Otherwise, there will be no point for just sending robotic rovers and landers (dV-wise those are otherwise the same).
• Hit points for kerbals (pun is intentional) to measure all those near misses.
• Some experiments (retrieved rocks, soil and such) need to be transported back to Science station or Kerbin for science.
• Max. re-entry heat setting raised from current 120% -> 150% (I want things to be hotter, as it is not hot enough, the default should remain at 100%)
• Stock visualization of exact location for planetary experiments (in the Tracking Sation) where the experiments were taken, without the need for planting a flag.
• Less science points per biome, but more biomes on planetary objects (including asteroids).
• Less science per experiment, but more experiments.
• Stock settings option for some experiments to need to be done more than once,  and need to return those into Kerbin/science station (I just hate the current ratio in career mode in for e.g. Mystery Goo and Science Junior).
• Replace all the special KSC and (other launch site) biomes (those are annoying workload in career mode) with common biome ones, but new surface experiments will work also only for Kerbin without the DLC.
• Early career game helicopter parts.
• All above is behind on/off switches like commNet is - so people can select their own taste of feature soup.

Thank you again DEVs (and all the other staff)! If any of the above is hitting the next DLC after this one, I am definately buying it too!

 

Personally I think there is way too little science obtained from initial contact. My first landing on the Mun gets very little science, but I can later farm science from landing in a bunch of spots. That always felt backwards to me. Though it certainly makes sense that later setting up a base to do experiments would yield far more science than simply landing.

[klesh]

2 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Ummm, just off the top of my head:

• Airplane Plus
• Mk2 Expansion
• RLA Reborn
• SXT Continued

and there are others.  I literally thought of these immediately, without doing any searching

 

I'm fairly certain he was being facetious, though I am not his spokesman. 

[linuxgurugamer]

5 hours ago, CyborgBarry said:

As excited as I am for this I'm a little disappointed by the seemingly arbitrary date you guys use for making this expansion free. It's not like it's a small price. I bought the game in May, 2013 and I frankly feel cheated. I was on board pretty early from my perspective. There wasn't even an update in April 2013 to justify the cut off. Please explain the date choice? 

It's been explained many, many times.  Squad made a mistake, they were called on it, they said OK, and set a date at which time the mistake would be canceled.  Doesn't matter if anything was released.

[Superfluous J]

4 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Ummm, just off the top of my head:

• Airplane Plus
• Mk2 Expansion
• RLA Reborn
• SXT Continued

and there are others.  I literally thought of these immediately, without doing any searching

Psst sarcasm

[razark]

5 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Ummm, just off the top of my head:

• Airplane Plus
• Mk2 Expansion
• RLA Reborn
• SXT Continued

and there are others.  I literally thought of these immediately, without doing any searching

Did you click the links in my post?

[linuxgurugamer]

12 hours ago, lodiped said:

IF and only IF infernal robotics or SEP use just one small item of this update in their updates, it could potentially mean people would have to buy the DLC.

First off, SEP deprecation was announced hours before this came out, and the author had no idea about this.

Second, I'm not aware of any mod that requires the DLC.  I also can't see an old, existing mod to require new modules (code) which will be supplied in the DLC.  New mods, possibly.

[HebaruSan]

18 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Second, I'm not aware of any mod that requires the DLC.

There are a few that are specifically for the DLC:

NetKAN/MakingHistoryEngineTweaks.netkan:        { "name": "MakingHistory-DLC" }
NetKAN/MakingLessHistory.netkan:        { "name": "MakingHistory-DLC" }
NetKAN/TweakscaleMakingHistoryConfigs.frozen:        { "name": "MakingHistory-DLC" }

[Eskandare]

@UomoCapra Will this be available for free to those who had bought into KSP during the beginning, as it was with Making History?

[Dash8466]

Just now, Eskandare said:

@UomoCapra Will this be available for free to those who had bought into KSP during the beginning, as it was with Making History?

yes

[klesh]

On 5/6/2019 at 10:02 AM, UomoCapra said:

 And yes, we’re keeping our promise that all players who purchased the game through April 2013 will receive the expansion for free.

 

2 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

@UomoCapra Will this be available for free to those who had bought into KSP during the beginning, as it was with Making History?

 

Says so right in the OP, man.

[Ol’ Musky Boi]

Robotics? Sadly looks at all of my stock bearing craft, with the knowledge that they are now redundant technology.

Seriously, this DLC looks bloomin brilliant, I'm so pumped to buy it!

[Foxster]

23 hours ago, fourfa said:

Anyone recognize the middle leg parts on the left-side scorpion-ish craft?  Top is a standard 0.625m liquid fuel tank, bottom is a standard adapter, middle is a ...?

That will be the new programmable hydraulic ram. 

[shdwlrd]

I'm not overly interested with the hinges. But basic KIS functionality made stock, and more stuff it find on the planets. Nicely done Squad. I'll pick it up even though I'm taking a vacation from KSP.

[fulgur]

I think those would be servos or hydraulics @Foxster

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by fulgur

[Dash8466]

6 minutes ago, Ol’ Musky Boi said:

Robotics? Sadly looks at all of my stock bearing craft, with the knowledge that they are now redundant technology.

Seriously, this DLC looks bloomin brilliant, I'm so pumped to buy it!

Right? I spend about 75 hours trying to perfect those suckers, I even broke the sound barrier. they were beautiful times but I'm happy we can move on.

[Snark]

Sorry for the long post... this thread moves so fast that it's hard to keep up.    This is just from the last few hours:

 

13 hours ago, lodiped said:

So... Basically... If new players look for mods regarding robotics and surface experiments from 1.8 onwards they'll be (practically) forced to buy the DLC?

Hmm?  No, not at all, where did you get that from?

I mean, there are already mods with robotics and surface experiments in them, and there's no reason to think that those mods will magically stop working in KSP 1.8 for some reason.  If players want to use such mods, and if the authors of such mods choose to keep maintaining them, then there ya go.

Of course, if you want stuff that uses the new DLC functionality, then of course you'll have to pay for that, because businesses sell products.  They're not charities.

13 hours ago, lodiped said:

How can you make content as a company without making an at least reasonable income, right?

I would phrase that as "How can the company even exist without income".  Businesses need money.  It's their reason for existence.  It's their oxygen supply.  They spend money to make stuff, and then they put that stuff up for sale in the hope that the cash it brings in will exceed the cash that they had to spend to make it.  It's how commerce works.

So, yes.  They gotta charge money for the work that they do, just like the grocery store is kinda stubborn about insisting that you fork over some cash if you want to get groceries.

13 hours ago, lodiped said:

You guys could've gone for the aesthetical bandwagon and make just as much (maybe?) without having to force people to buy stuff to get the full experience.

So your theory is that they should spend a whole bunch of money to make a thing, and then give it away for free?  How do they stay in business if they do that?  Can you explain the math to me?  Because I'm kinda scratching my head, here. 

The only way they're going to make money is if people actually want to buy the stuff they make.  Which means that the really cool stuff is exactly what they need to charge for.

Entertainment businesses are in the business of selling product.  They're not going to build a thing unless they think they can make money at it, which means they need to charge for it.  A software company spends money to develop software, then charges people who want to buy it-- it's the same as spending money to make a movie, then charging people for movie tickets.

13 hours ago, lodiped said:

I just can't look at something like this DLC and not think you guys are being a bit of a villain in the industry.

Um... what?

They make a product that brings players literally thousands of hours of enjoyment-- with no extra fees, no monthly payments, nada, just a teeny-tiny initial investment that's equivalent to a couple of movie tickets-- and then they support it for year after year after year of free updates with tons of extra features being added after 1.0-- also for free.

And then they decide to make some extra, new stuff, which was never promised or mentioned as part of the initial game, and they offer it for sale.  Here's the result of our work, would you like it? And then you vote with your wallet, same as any other company's product.

All the while taking great pains to make the product extremely moddable, and never ever doing anything obnoxious like deliberately making it hard for people to mod the game so that they can sell more stuff.

How on earth does all that make them the "bad guys"?  I've never seen any game company deliver the kind of value and ongoing commitment to players that I've seen from KSP.

12 hours ago, lodiped said:

You guys totally missed the point.

No, I think that what we're saying is that you did.

Look, this statement is correct,

12 hours ago, lodiped said:

IF and only IF infernal robotics or SEP use just one small item of this update in their updates, it could potentially mean people would have to buy the DLC.

...but it misses the point.  KSP is free and open.  If people want a robotics mod that doesn't depend on DLC, and want it badly enough, then someone will create and/or maintain that.  And if nobody cares, then nobody will.  It's how mods work.  They go with where the demand is.

For example, we still don't know yet what the Breaking Ground robotics will look like, or how awesome (or not) it'll be:

• Maybe it'll turn out that Breaking Ground robotics sucks, and nobody wants it, and the DLC flops, and so the robotics-mod maintainers will keep on living their lives making awesome mods, and they'll certainly not take critical dependencies on something that most of their users choose not to buy.  Which means the mods stay a going concern, and don't depend on the DLC.  And the players win.
• Or, on the other hand, maybe Breaking Ground's robotics will turn out to be awesome, and practically every KSP player will buy it, and then the robotics-mod maintainers will do what they always do, and follow the users, and build on top of the DLC because they can make more-awesome stuff that way.  And the players win.

The players win either way.  So what's the problem?

12 hours ago, TBenz said:

That comes down to the modders. 

I doubt any of the existing mods will convert to the DLC systems. A full refactor is never the most fun thing to do, and if the stock system works differently than that turns into an outright ground up rework. And even if they do, I think it's a safe bet that someone will maintain a non-DLC fork. 

While mod support is a great thing, it's hardly Squad's job to make sure that all of their paid DLC is designed in such a way that no mods would ever want to be dependent on them. You're essentially asking Squad to make sure their DLC isn't good enough to encourage people to buy and use it.

^ This.

 

7 hours ago, Adaminkton said:

I'm worried about the patch that ksp is taking.

Why is that?  They're releasing awesome new fun stuff that players like.  Plus, they're charging for it, yay!  That means that they're making money off the game, which after all is absolutely necessary to continue supporting it because they're a business and not a charity, and businesses have to charge money for things if they want to stay in business, because math.  So this is good news, yes?

7 hours ago, Adaminkton said:

We are getting new mechanics but only in dlc's and without them only revamps and quality of life improvements.

Yes, of course.  Company makes a new product, company needs to charge for the new product so they can make money.

You do get that "make money" is the reason why companies exist, yes?  And that they pretty much have to put the new, cool stuff in the DLCs that they charge for, because otherwise nobody would have a reason to spend money for it, yes?

It's called "selling a product".  When you walk into a grocery store, you gotta pay money if you want to walk out with stuff to eat.  The grocery store's not giving the stuff away, they're selling it.  They have to.  Otherwise there wouldn't be a grocery store.

Same deal here.

6 hours ago, CyborgBarry said:

As excited as I am for this I'm a little disappointed by the seemingly arbitrary date you guys use for making this expansion free. It's not like it's a small price. I bought the game in May, 2013 and I frankly feel cheated. I was on board pretty early from my perspective. There wasn't even an update in April 2013 to justify the cut off. Please explain the date choice? 

Well, they have to pick some date, don't they?  I mean, no matter what date they pick, there's always going to be someone who just barely missed the cut-off.  If they extended it to May 2013 so you'd be on board, then the June 2013 people would be unhappy.  And if they extended it to June, then the July 2013 people would be in the same boat.

Any date is going to be somewhat arbitrary.  The only way not to be arbitrary would be to make everything free to everybody always-- in which case KSP would basically need to shut down and release no new significant content, because you can't stay in business if you can't make money-- or else to renege on their earlier promise and force everyone to pay, including the pre-April-2013 people.

So in this case it's simply your bad luck that you missed the cutoff just barely.  So it goes-- it's unavoidable.  That said, how do you mean "it's not like a small price"?  It's US$15.  That's less than the price of a movie ticket in a lot of places.  The movie ticket will get you a couple of hours of entertainment, maybe three at most.  How many hours of entertainment do you expect to get out of Breaking Ground?  I don't know about you, but in my case, I expect I'll get hundreds of hours of play out of it, at least.

So, for me, US$15 for hundreds of hours of play time seems like a pretty good deal.  Very cheap, in terms of "hours of entertainment per dollar".  So it'll be up to you to decide whether $15 is worth the amount of fun you think you're likely to get from it.  Either it is, and you buy it, or it isn't, and you don't-- same as any other commercial product.

 

1 hour ago, Fraston said:

Pre 1.4 buyers should get it free this time! It makes sense! Pre main release for making history, maybe pre-making history buyers get it free! Not some excuse!

Makes sense... how, exactly?  So that Squad can't make much money off the DLC and therefore has no reason to develop the DLC in the first place so we don't get any DLC at all?

Could use some help understanding the proposed business model, there. 

[VoidCosmos]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Ummm, just off the top of my head:

• Airplane Plus
• Mk2 Expansion
• RLA Reborn
• SXT Continued

and there are others.  I literally thought of these immediately, without doing any searching

AoA technology

Quiztech aero pack

 

[Pthigrivi]

17 hours ago, sumghai said:

Could these experiments be allowed to run continuously ad infinitum, while generating diminishing returns in science over time?
 

This is a relatively small but important question and I'd love to know how they're handling this. The trick with time-based science is you don't want to let players just put one thing down and time-warp to infinite science, so Im assuming there will be some sort of either diminished returns and/or cutoff. The MPL mechanics are much improved from their earliest implementation but still a little clunky in the UI department. They've hinted at adding a lot of dimension to the process of gathering so I certainly hope they've been thinking of ways to make it all manageable and streamlining things as much as possible.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Pthigrivi

[VoidCosmos]

What happens to Making History after this update?