Kerbal Space Program Breaks Ground with a New DLC!

[Shadowmage]

My personal opinions on this newly announced DLC:

Robotics - an excellent subject for a DLC.  It is not something present in the stock game in any form, and opens up entirely new venues for craft construction.  If done properly I think the robotics could be worthy of a DLC all by itself.  I've personally longed for a reliable robotics package for a long time now -- one that does not suffer the caveats that IR is subject to regarding use of docking ports and 'sloppy joints' (e.g. a 'hinge' needs to act solely as a hinge, constraining movement along all axis except its specific free rotation axis, not as a ball joint attached with a spring; unfortunately I know these to all be limitations of Unity, so don't have very high hopes of the stock system working any more 'properly' than does IR).

My only other concern on this is how SQUAD handles the code-side functionality -- will the code (PartModules) be limited to only being available when the expansion is installed, or will the core robotics functionality be available in the stock/core API?   (either is an 'acceptable' and workable answer, though one is certainly more desirable than the other).

Surface Science - Honestly should have been part of the stock career from the beginning.  I appreciate that it wasn't part of the stock career mode at 'release', and so they are free to issue it through a DLC, but really feel that it should have been included in the stock game.  Lack of something to 'do' on planets has been what I feel to be one of the largest 'incomplete' areas of the stock career gameplay.

Deployable Science - As with the surface science, I think this one should have been part of career mode from the start and not part of an optional expansion pack.

New Space Suit - Okay, sure.  Not personally a fan of the look, but at least it isn't being packaged as its own micro-DLC.

Cost - About right for what they are offering, esp. when compared to what you get for the same value from other games DLCs.  One new major feature (robotics), two expanded science options for science/career modes, and one 'freebie' spacesuit model.  I probably wasted more $ in gas warming up my car in the morning in the past month, not to mention my weekly coffee bill....

Overall - When I read the name I thought 'gee, finally some parts for surface bases!'.  Sadly, I was disappointed on that, though I can't really express any disappointment towards what was actually announced as part of the expansion.

[JERONIMO]

sounds fun to me. epic/10 not legendary, forgoten to add K to every letter. overall good for robots+ good for new slick suits.

[Jestersage]

On 5/7/2019 at 10:55 PM, 5thHorseman said:

You'll be hard pressed to find someone outside the boardrooms out the worst companies who thinks bug fixes should be paid.

You mean Microsoft? "Sorry, your software is too old, even though your mission critical stuff that literally means life-and-death of patiences depends on the older OS with no viable replacement. Hope no ransomware attack yoru computer"

[bobjonesisthebest:D]

question. Do the cryovolcanoes actually spew out liquids
so they look cool? 

[Starboost88]

I just hope that they'll stop adding ALL of the parts via DLC, not everyone can afford to waste $15 on a DLC. Still, we're lucky that T2 is making KSP, and not DICE or Paradox, in either case we'd be drowning in paid DLCs.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Starboost88

[Pthigrivi]

On 5/8/2019 at 7:08 PM, Lord Aurelius said:

Something relatively simple like Snacks is what I've had in mind for a stock life support template. Nothing overly complicated, but something to help better convey the challenge of long-duration manned (Kerbaled?) missions and to provide a check to the additional abilities Kerbals have over probes.

I see contracts as a component of more "tycoon" style gameplay. My thoughts are that there should actually be two separate "career" and "campaign" game modes. Career mode would be more of the tycoon style gameplay and could fundamentally be similar to what we have now. There could still be some optional story contracts here as well (similar to what Novasilisko talked about years ago with regards to a storyline for the easter eggs eventually leading to a hidden planet and also the anomaly explorer contracts) for players to pursue and make use of the full tech tree to achieve them and to provide a way to "win" the game.

A campaign mode on the other hand could be a series of highly scripted scenario story missions (including cutscenes similar to what we've seen for the launch trailers) that could serve as a solid place for new players to jump into the game and could also function effectively as a tutorial to prepare players for the more open-ended game modes. Early missions would pretty much tell you what to do, but later missions would be a lot more open ended and give the player a lot of creative freedom in how they accomplish the mission. Difficult optional objectives (that can change the mission progression similar to StarFox 64 or other games with branching paths) could provide extra challenge for veteran players and some replayability.

I think there could be a middle-ground solution that gave Career mode a bit more structure without losing the open-ended play. What I'd love to see is just a better fleshing out of the story mode/world first/milestone invisible mess we have right now into a simple progression of non-linear headline missions. It could start off with the same altitude, speed, and distance records, move on to reaching orbit, then offer up docking and missions to flyby, land on, and return from the Mun and Minmus. Once a player has returned from the Mun and Minmus the rest of the kerbol system should open up. It may take a little restructuring in Mission Control but these missions really need to be up front and persist so players get that they are the primary goals of the game and have the ability to get advances and weigh the rewards. 

The other thing I'd love to see as a way of solving the conundrum of time-based rewards (something thats even more important now that we have duration based experiments,) would be World First Bonuses. If you land on the Mun or Duna before X date you get a bonus reward in funds and reputation. Its just a gentle, scalable incentive process that would cause players to question time warping to get rewards, and could make the inclusion of other time-based mechanics like construction and research time more meaningful than just another thing to warp through. 

And for LS I personally prefer USI. I feel like if you're gonna go for life support we should really make it something special, with separate parts for recycling and greenhouses and a habitation mechanic to give meaning to station and base hab parts. Just like USI it should start gently, so you barely have to think about it going to Minmus or the Mun. Its later when you start going interplanetary and builidng up long term bases and stations when a little more noodling is required. Add a few fancy VASIMR engines and some reactors and you've got a pretty solid DLC. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Pthigrivi

[mindstalker]

10 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

Now, what DOES concern me is base changes to the game. KSPs modding community is one of the best things this game has, and all major changes give me the jitters.... everytime we move towards a "point something", its a game breaker. I hope we go to a 1.7.1 instead of a 1.8. We just got 1.7 and the modding community was just getting used to it!

I hope the devs take that into consideration. That said, I am looking forward to this next development.

Honestly I get the idea they have been working on this DLC for quite a while. Last time there was DLC there hadn't been a released in a while so it make sense to package up the core game updates that were needed for the DLC. I'd be willing to bet they have been sliding in core updates needed for this DLC into the game all along. I see no reason they would change much of the core engine in a month.

[Daniel Prates]

40 minutes ago, mindstalker said:

Honestly I get the idea they have been working on this DLC for quite a while. Last time there was DLC there hadn't been a released in a while so it make sense to package up the core game updates that were needed for the DLC. I'd be willing to bet they have been sliding in core updates needed for this DLC into the game all along. I see no reason they would change much of the core engine in a month.

Yup. 

In any case there is no stopping progress, is there? TBH I am just voicing a distant concern. I feel in my gut that every time they get together to discuss improving the game, it never happens that someone says "modders, to hell with them, we'll change the game however the hell we want". In fact, I am sure it is probably the opposite. And every new version is quickly absorbed and dealt with by the community. Change to the new game engine happened versions ago and even that was dealt with more or less quickly, without much harm. 

Since the game went over to consoles though, I fear that over time the game will become increasingly ... what's the word? Homogeneous. As in, to please an increasing user base with increasing different priorities. And console users are oblivious to the modding aspects of KSP, which IMHO is the best aspect of the game. My fear is that some point in the future, someone will say "we can't do this or that, it will render the game increasingly unmoddable", and some top ranking developer says "we don't care about this anymore". If we come to that, it will be a damn shame. 

Again... I am not saying that is what is happening. I am just saying it out loud, boy, I hope it never happens.  

[Jestersage]

40 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

Yup. 

In any case there is no stopping progress, is there? TBH I am just voicing a distant concern. I feel in my gut that every time they get together to discuss improving the game, it never happens that someone says "modders, to hell with them, we'll change the game however the hell we want". In fact, I am sure it is probably the opposite. And every new version is quickly absorbed and dealt with by the community. Change to the new game engine happened versions ago and even that was dealt with more or less quickly, without much harm. 

Since the game went over to consoles though, I fear that over time the game will become increasingly ... what's the word? Homogeneous. As in, to please an increasing user base with increasing different priorities. And console users are oblivious to the modding aspects of KSP, which IMHO is the best aspect of the game. My fear is that some point in the future, someone will say "we can't do this or that, it will render the game increasingly unmoddable", and some top ranking developer says "we don't care about this anymore". If we come to that, it will be a damn shame. 

 Again... I am not saying that is what is happening. I am just saying it out loud, boy, I hope it never happens.  

However, why is Homogenous bad? No longer do I expect someone to figure out how to mod a game.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

7 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

 

My only other concern on this is how SQUAD handles the code-side functionality -- will the code (PartModules) be limited to only being available when the expansion is installed, or will the core robotics functionality be available in the stock/core API?   (either is an 'acceptable' and workable answer, though one is certainly more desirable than the other).

From upthread:

On 5/6/2019 at 5:49 PM, JPLRepo said:

Indeed. However, Modules and sections of the code that are DLC specific will not function without the DLC installed. The same as Making History code.

 

[Trigonaut]

Another update locked behind a paywall. Awesome

[BNSF1995]

First of all, this will be a boon for BDB. Now we'll be able to properly simulate the surface experiments deployed on the Apollo missions.

Second, sorry Infernal Robotics. You've been rendered obsolete.

Finally, I'm so glad I'm a Steam user, because it's easier for me to get this DLC through Steam than the Squad Store.

[Dash8466]

26 minutes ago, Trigonaut said:

Another update locked behind a paywall. Awesome

This game is worth paying a bit more for

8 hours ago, bobjonesisthebest:D said:

question. Do the cryovolcanoes actually spew out liquids
so they look cool? 

Probably some particles but nothing more.

[steve_v]

Cool DLC, shame I won't be buying it. Working joystick support doesn't seem to be included, what a pity.

Oh well, guess I'll just go play something else while I wait for KSP to be out of beta.

[Dash8466]

1 minute ago, steve_v said:

Cool DLC, shame I won't be buying it. Working joystick support doesn't seem to be included, what a pity.

Oh well, guess I'll just go play something else while I wait for KSP to be out of beta.

dont worry it'll come out

[steve_v]

2 minutes ago, Dash8466 said:

dont worry it'll come out

It's been a long 6 years so far.

[Dash8466]

On 5/10/2019 at 8:53 AM, steve_v said:

It's been a long 6 years so far.

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Dash8466
Redacted by moderator

[steve_v]

9 hours ago, Dash8466 said:

5 and a half year it was a hobby of some [snip]. I got faith in T2. that is if they don't throw out to much DLC's 

I have pretty much the opposite point of view.  A hobby is a labour of love that I am inclined to support and whose shortcomings I am inclined to forgive, while T2 is a faceless money-grubbing corporation that I can't get behind at all.
T2 bought KSP right before 1.4, and 1.4 broke input support on GNU/Linux. All I have seen from them since is art improvement I don't really care about, and more DLC.
Meanwhile, the game still doesn't recognise my joystick or gamepad (3 major releases later) - both of which worked perfectly before T2 got their grubby mitts on it.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[FleshJeb]

On 5/9/2019 at 12:24 AM, Boyster said:

Yes i will be patient and wait for discounts(Cause money is rough).

PM me your steam ID and you'll get it for free. Or if you didn't get it on Steam, we'll find a another way.

[klgraham1013]

4 hours ago, steve_v said:

A hobby is a labour of love that I am inclined to support and whose shortcomings I am inclined to forgive, while T2 is a faceless money-grubbing corporation that I can't get behind at all.
T2 bought KSP right before 1.4, and 1.4 broke input support on GNU/Linux. All I have seen from them since is art improvement I don't really care about, and more DLC.
Meanwhile, the game still doesn't recognise my joystick or gamepad (3 major releases later) - both of which worked perfectly before T2 got their grubby mitts on it.

"#BlameUnity" - Squad probably.

[Rudolf Meier]

5 hours ago, BNSF1995 said:

Second, sorry Infernal Robotics. You've been rendered obsolete.

I don't think so...  ... have you tried the latest version? (it is currently in a release candidate state but will release before the DLC and is free!)

[steve_v]

5 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

"#BlameUnity"

#BlameManagement. I don't know whether that management was T2 at the time or some suit at SQUAD, but I'm not a big believer in coincidence.
Given SQUADs history of #BlameUnity though, it could go either way.

Regardless of who is to blame, I'm not giving any more money to SQUAD or Take Two until they stop shafting GNU/Linux users, barfing up untested releases all over their customers, and deflecting responsibility for the quality of their product.

Unity is a tool. If it doesn't do the job, fix it or replace it, lest ye resemble the old adage regarding poor workmen.

[Daniel Prates]

5 hours ago, BNSF1995 said:

First of all, this will be a boon for BDB. Now we'll be able to properly simulate the surface experiments deployed on the Apollo missions.

Second, sorry Infernal Robotics. You've been rendered obsolete.

Give the mod "surface experiments" a chance. Its excellent. Maybe the new stock parts won't be as good. Requires "kerbal attachment systems" though, and since the new stock parts wont be attacheable (such a major change like that would certainly have been announced), the mod parts promise to remain better that the anounced new content.

I would suspect the same thing happening with infernal robotics. Guess we will have to wait and see.

TBH I am eager to see the new anomalies and surface features. You know, new places and things to see. But as far as parts go, no stock part can compete with he dedicated parts mods, which are much more plentiful amd varied. 

[jost]

1 hour ago, Daniel Prates said:

Give the mod "surface experiments" a chance. Its excellent. Maybe the new stock parts won't be as good. Requires "kerbal attachment systems" though, and since the new stock parts wont be attacheable (such a major change like that would certainly have been announced), the mod parts promise to remain better that the anounced new content.

Acutally this won't gonna happen. The dependency to KAC always had it's problems, aka calling the kraken. There is now a bug which disallows connecting the parts with the link cable. 
Since the mod developers don't want to do more work on the mod they deprecreated it and wish that nobody adopts it: 

 
So actually SurfaceExperimentPack already doesn't work like expected. I expect that this trend will continue until some newer update of KSP or KAC will make it not working any moore. 
 

[Vexillar]

It's been mentioned briefly, but I see a lot of cameras in the promo pictures - on the new helmets, on an experiment, on a robot arm... must be significant?

And the suits - I see blue, white and orange... like the jumpsuits in the menu icons and (old) kerbal videos.  I like where that might be going.

 

Edited May 10, 2019 by Vexillar