Can we not have the new updates locked behind paid DLC?

[boomchacle]

Putting aside the whole thing where we have to pay for it, it makes the whole idea of a "stock" craft really complicated. For example, if someone makes a stock ship with DLC content and puts it onto the steam workshop, can you use it if you do not have the DLC? There's already robotics mods which are free but we'd essentially be paying for the ability to have a stock ship with robotic parts. Except that you can't actually share that ship on KerbalX because if people do not have this Paid DLC, they cannot actually use it, despite being a "stock" ship. We'd be better off with Infernal Robotics.

[MaianTrey]

The cat's outta the bag on that one already. We have a DLC - Making History. KSP is essentially a 7-year old game (4 if you only want to start with v1.0). The update that comes with the DLC at the end of the month will be free, and will likely contain a few things for vanilla KSP. The new features and parts will be in the DLC, just as they were with Making History.

There is also terminology that is largely understood regarding games and expansions/DLC:
Stock craft - craft made entirely in a stock game (including DLC), no mods needed.
Vanilla craft - craft made entirely in the base KSP game, no mods needed.

[boomchacle]

10 minutes ago, MaianTrey said:

There is also terminology that is largely understood regarding games and expansions/DLC:
Stock craft - craft made entirely in a stock game (including DLC), no mods needed.
Vanilla craft - craft made entirely in the base KSP game, no mods needed.

Thanks for Explaining the stock and vanilla thing. I just assumed that Vanilla was a term for Minecraft with no mods and that stock was a term for KSP with no mods.

[Loskene]

29 minutes ago, boomchacle said:

Thanks for Explaining the stock and vanilla thing. I just assumed that Vanilla was a term for Minecraft with no mods and that stock was a term for KSP with no mods.

I think you'll come to find out that every term the minecraft generation uses for its understanding of games will have their origins in some highly competitive online scene from the late 80s or early 90s. Vanilla used to refer to base versions of MMO games without any expansion packs (what we'd now call excessively generous DLC, "seasonal content updates" or whole sequels) which few people would still be playing after a major expansion (unless it was bad). Depending on how long the dev/publisher wanted to maintain their vanilla game and early expansions they'd often roll the updates into the base game and make that the new "vanilla" for anyone who bought it after a certain date. Maybe we'll see something similar for a "Game of the Decade" version of KSP down the line.

[RatchetinSpace]

Sooooooo.....squad will just print out money instead? You can't expect a game to continue development without income.

[klesh]

You are not a very good recurrent spender!

[boomchacle]

2 minutes ago, RatchetinSpace said:

Sooooooo.....squad will just print out money instead? You can't expect a game to continue development without income.

I would not be mad if they did not add special game mechanics which just copy a 4 year old mod and lock it behind a paywall

[razark]

36 minutes ago, RatchetinSpace said:

Sooooooo.....squad will just print out money instead? You can't expect a game to continue development without income.

This argument again.  Yeesh.  How often is this silliness going to keep coming up?

I talked to my boss, and he said he's be paying me in "experience points", that I could exchange for skills, and every so often I could add on new feats.  Any money I need, I can just get the rogue to take off of any NPCs we come across, or we could go fight monsters and search their corpses for equipment, so I can just eat trail rations.  He said that once we finish the current assignment we're on, there would be plenty of loot to pick up, too.

 

Wait.  Was that my boss, or my DM? 
How does reality work again?

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, boomchacle said:

I would not be mad if they did not add special game mechanics which just copy a 4 year old mod and lock it behind a paywall

That 4 year old mod vanished from the face of the Earth, or it's still available?

Keep in mind that everything that's stock is the only way videogames are allowed to use them - and it's probably were the money is going to be.

Not to mention stability issues.

[Renae]

9 hours ago, boomchacle said:

I would not be mad if they did not add special game mechanics which just copy a 4 year old mod and lock it behind a paywall

You want something, you pay for it.  Welcome to, life.

 

[Serenity]

9 hours ago, boomchacle said:

I would not be mad if they did not add special game mechanics which just copy a 4 year old mod and lock it behind a paywall

Wait so you dont mind not having these new mechanics.Right?

Anyways if there is only a small chance that this game keeps growing and getting better by buying a dlc i will take it.

Its not like we have an unfinished game or its not a great game, cause its BOTH.And it deserves our money and our attention more than most things you spent 15$ worth.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Boyster

[MechBFP]

Tell me about it, I go to the store and freaking FOOD is locked behind a paywall?! 

What is this world coming to. *shake head*

[Ultimate Steve]

8 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Tell me about it, I go to the store and freaking FOOD is locked behind a paywall?! 

What is this world coming to. *shake head*

At least oxygen isn't locked behind a paywall...

...Yet.

[Serenity]

19 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

At least oxygen isn't locked behind a paywall...

...Yet.

There was a movie, [snip] that scared me so much i couldnt see it.That you had to buy oxygen or something.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Starhawk
Redacted by moderator

[Snark]

13 hours ago, boomchacle said:

Putting aside the whole thing where we have to pay for it, it makes the whole idea of a "stock" craft really complicated. For example, if someone makes a stock ship with DLC content and puts it onto the steam workshop, can you use it if you do not have the DLC?

No, of course you couldn't.  So, like everything in life, it's all about personal choice:

• The person who wants to share a craft, can choose whether they want to post something that works in the stock game, or whether they want to post something that requires the DLC.
• The person who wants to download a craft, can choose whether they only want to download the craft that work in stock, or whether they want to buy the DLC so they can download stuff that uses it.

This seems perfectly simple and obvious to me-- what's your concern?

13 hours ago, boomchacle said:

There's already robotics mods which are free but we'd essentially be paying for the ability to have a stock ship with robotic parts.

If you want to, yes.  If you don't want to pay for that, then you can just use the free robotics mods and only use ships that use that stuff.

13 hours ago, boomchacle said:

Except that you can't actually share that ship on KerbalX because if people do not have this Paid DLC, they cannot actually use it, despite being a "stock" ship.

Yes.  If you want to use a product that costs money, then you spend the money.  If you don't, then you don't.  That's what "buying stuff" is about, whether we're talking about software or groceries.  What's your concern?

13 hours ago, boomchacle said:

We'd be better off with Infernal Robotics.

Shrug.  If you'd rather use Infernal Robotics, then use Infernal Robotics.  What's the problem?

12 hours ago, RatchetinSpace said:

Sooooooo.....squad will just print out money instead? You can't expect a game to continue development without income.

^ This.

11 hours ago, boomchacle said:

I would not be mad if they did not add special game mechanics which just copy a 4 year old mod and lock it behind a paywall

If you don't like it, then don't buy it.

Saying "paywall" is misleading, here.  It seems to imply that you think you're entitled to something for free, which of course you aren't.  Does a grocery store have a "paywall"?  Well, they're certainly pretty stubborn at insisting that you have to pay money if you want to walk out of the store with veggies and bread and so forth.

The grocery store is not a charity.  They sell product, for money, in order to pay their operating expenses and make a profit, same as anyone else.  It's mathematically impossible for them to just give away food for free, even if they wanted to, because then they'd have no money and would immediately go out of business and there would be no grocery store and you'd have no place to get food from.

Same deal with any other product-- including software.

[Xurkitree]

2 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

At least oxygen isn't locked behind a paywall...

...Yet.

I AM THE LORAX

I SPEAK FOR THE TREES

AND THE TREES SAY SOMETHING

IN VIETNAMESE

[fulgur]

I tried Infernal Robotics for a little bit. My ships always came apart at high warp. And it gave me the kraken with the black navball several times.

So, I would prefer stock (if not vanilla) robotics.

[boomchacle]

What will be in future updates and what will be in DLC? What's supposed to be the difference from now on?

[MechBFP]

4 minutes ago, boomchacle said:

What will be in future updates and what will be in DLC? What's supposed to be the difference from now on?

That’s up to Squad to determine.

[Vanamonde]

This suggestion for the game's development has been moved to Suggestions & Development Discussions. 

[Kerbart]

23 hours ago, boomchacle said:

(...) We'd be better off with Infernal Robotics.

I’ve had my fair share of mods that were abandoned, or took longer than I cared for to follow an upgrade. Don’t get me wrong, I deeply appreciate the work that is done by them.

But having functionality available in stock, instead of something that’s bolted on, buggy, and forces dependencies that I don’t really want on my install... I gladly pay $15 for not having to rely on the kindness of mod programmers who have little incentive to provide a salty, acidic community with continuous updates.

[Nightside]

On 5/6/2019 at 7:57 PM, boomchacle said:

Can we not have the new updates locked behind paid DLC?

Yes, this can be achieved by not purchasing the DLC.

Crafts made with DLC parts should be labeled as DLC crafts when people share them.

[klesh]

You're suggesting they not continue to make money, so that your concept of a "stock" craft is less complicated?

 

Thats not how companies work.

[kirmie44]

I honestly think they need to start working on the next ksp. The need a More reason to invest time into a game that's been out for years and a bit of money. 

...That or make it like an operating system where after a certain point you have to buy a new version that basically starts updating where the last one ended its updates. I like the first idea better but PD is having trouble putting this one down.

[cantab]

On 5/7/2019 at 10:49 PM, MechBFP said:

That’s up to Squad to determine.

Following the trend set since Making History, I think we're likely to see new gameplay features as well as large collections of new parts as DLC. The base game is likely to get art and visual overhauls, as well as improvements to established aspects of gameplay.

The last new gameplay feature in the base game was the commnet and kerbnet back in 1.2 in 2016.