JPGSP

Why do you think the Soyuz is called Soyuz?

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Posted (edited)

Why do you guys think the Soyuz is called like that? 

Here is why I think is called like that:

If you know Russian, you will know that Soyuz (союз) means union, and the Soyuz is divided into 3 different modules, which means that the 3 modules are united together, which here is why I think is called like that. Leave why you think is called like that below.

The Soyuz separated into 3 modules:

soyuz.descr.fig.1.jpg

Edited by JPGSP

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I suspect the reason is rather more political given that it was launched by the Soviet Union. But I have nothing to back that up.

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Posted (edited)

There’s probably a dual meaning as you point out. I hadn’t thought about it that way, I’m sure they were thinking of it.

But I think the “official” meaning comes from ‘Union’ as used in “Union of Soviet Socialist Republics” or CCCP in Russian.

There are many references online about Soyuz. Obviously, the Wikipedia entry for the family of rockets:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_(rocket_family)

The ESA site also references the “union” meaning:

https://m.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Transportation/Launch_vehicles/The_Russian_Soyuz_spacecraft

But I have yet to find a specific citation referencing the political motive behind the name. But I bet it’s out there on some Soviet space history blog.

 

Edited by scottadges

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Yeah, I always assumed it was like if the US had named a spacecraft, "United."

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, tater said:

Yeah, I always assumed it was like if the US had named a spacecraft, "United."

Well, they came pretty close with the individual Mercury spacecraft names. Aurora 7 and Sigma 7 not so much, but Freedom 7, Liberty Bell, Friendship 7 and Faith 7 do have that 'land of the free' political vibe about them even if they weren't explicitly intended to be. Although given the geopolitics at the time, I don't really buy that.

Edited by KSK

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Personally I just think that it's gotten the name based on the fame of what it often carries. Like how 'dumpster', 'Styrofoam' and 'velcro' became household names despite being copyrighted icons that may not apply to the actual design. Even the R7 version carrying Sputnik is listed as the Sputnik. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(rocket)

So perhaps the Russian has a meaning but I doubt that meaning really has baring on why the name Soyuz has stuck around.

Just my thoughts.

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22 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

R7 version carrying Sputnik is listed as the Sputnik.

It was referred to as “Sputnik” (Russian for satellite) because it was an R7 variant designed to carry satellites. Later iterations of the R7 were named based on the components or missions, like Voskhod, Soyuz, etc. they were designed to carry.

From the R7 wiki page:

“The R-7 family consists of both missiles and orbital carrier rockets. Derivatives include the VostokVoskhod and Soyuz rockets”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-7_(rocket_family)

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59 minutes ago, KSK said:

I suspect the reason is rather more political given that it was launched by the Soviet Union. But I have nothing to back that up.

Its an very good design for an disposable stage. You have an very cramped return module, think commuter buss but you was only inside it for commuter buss times. That is unless the capsule missed the target at night in Siberia interrupting an starved wolf pack trying to take down an moose and ending up upside down. 
Yes they was armed for an reason and nobody serious in the US complained about it as it was Alaska bailout during an storm. 

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32 minutes ago, scottadges said:

It was referred to as “Sputnik” (Russian for satellite) because it was an R7 variant designed to carry satellites. Later iterations of the R7 were named based on the components or missions, like Voskhod, Soyuz, etc. they were designed to carry.

From the R7 wiki page:

“The R-7 family consists of both missiles and orbital carrier rockets. Derivatives include the VostokVoskhod and Soyuz rockets”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-7_(rocket_family)

Point being that the rocket typically takes a backseat in naming to it's payload.

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39 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Point being that the rocket typically takes a backseat in naming to it's payload.

Right, I think we’re saying something similar. Not trying to argue here.

Also, I think there was a level of pragmatism when naming things in the Soviet space program, following a lineage of previous spacecraft, and broad meaning. From what I’ve read, it’s pretty utilitarian when you look at the English translations of these names.

Completely opposite from SpaceX naming their booster landing barges, by contrast.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Point being that the rocket typically takes a backseat in naming to it's payload.

Kinda like in KSP. You build a thing, then build a rocket capable of getting the thing where it needs to be, name the entire stack “Mun Explorer” or so, and launch it. Both the rocket and its payload become parts of this “Mun Explorer” mission. Then you make another thing, load a “Mun Explorer”, take the rocket and add it to the new thing (I do it all the time). That’s how Soviet R-7 variants (Sputnik, Vostok, Voskhod, Soyuz, Molniya, etc) got their names.

Edited by sh1pman

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I was always under the impression that it was named 'union' because it was the first Soviet craft designed to dock together.

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10 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

because it was the first Soviet craft designed to dock together

It’s interesting you mentioned this, because I was reading more and found a thread on Quora (of all places) where they talk about this:

https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-Russian-word-soyuz-mean

One commenter, a self-described Russian native speaker, highlights the point that in the Russian language “union” and “alliance” are both soyuz. Another commenter, described as studying Russian and living in St. Petersburg, continues the point saying the word soyuz can also refer to a “professional alliance” or “marriage” that is implied in the Soyuz’s function to dock with a station.

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Well the Soyuz was originally developed (the design changed, but the program started this way) as a moonshot vehicle, so maybe naming it after the Soviet Union made sense politically, and then the name stuck.

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10 hours ago, scottadges said:

English translations of these names.

There is a Soviet/Russian rocket which the translation of the name means"boom"

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15 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Point being that the rocket typically takes a backseat in naming to it's payload.

Consider the Proton, too.

4 hours ago, JPGSP said:

There is a Soviet/Russian rocket which the translation of the name means"boom"

Rockot? Sort of.

Then there’s Start.

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16 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Personally I just think that it's gotten the name based on the fame of what it often carries.

It never got the name, technically. None of these designations are official, they still primarily go by GRAU index.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DDE said:

they still primarily go by GRAU index.

That's interesting, see I didn't know that until you mentioned it. 

Here's what the wikipedia page on the GRAU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRAUhas for the Soyuz designation:

11 (Rocketry and associated equipment)

11A: Rocketry (11A51, the Korolev N-1 heavy-lift launcher, 11A511, the Soyuz launcher)

 

Oh and for those who don't know what 'GRAU' stands for (like I didn't):

The Main Missile and Artillery Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (GRAU) (Russian: Главное ракетно-артиллерийское управление МО РФ (ГРАУ), romanized: Glavnoye raketno-artilleriyskoye upravleniye MO RF (GRAU))

 

Edited by scottadges

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... (Joke ahead) I am personally a great fan of the SU/Ru RS series. The Nato name for it (Satan) mirrors perfectly the idea of honorably spreading "democracy" for cheap ressources with systems like "raptor", "predator", "maverick" and other very trust promoting designations.

"Minuteman" should be renamed as "Our broken dream breaks others life"

 

I am okay if this gets flushed, sorry but i had to. Yankee go home.

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2 hours ago, Mikki said:

... (Joke ahead) I am personally a great fan of the SU/Ru RS series. The Nato name for it (Satan) mirrors perfectly the idea of honorably spreading "democracy" for cheap ressources with systems like "raptor", "predator", "maverick" and other very trust promoting designations.

"Minuteman" should be renamed as "Our broken dream breaks others life"

 

I am okay if this gets flushed, sorry but i had to. Yankee go home.

Exit, pursued by a missile.

 

Also, don't forget the "flower" line.

21055001-1974643862778360-62093181629682

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40 minutes ago, DDE said:

Also, don't forget the "flower" line.

My favorite ridiculous name is TOS-1A “Solntsepyok” - “Sunburn” Heavy Flamethrower System. Sunburn! lol

800px-%D0%A2%D0%9E%D0%A1-1%D0%90_%D0%91%

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10 hours ago, sh1pman said:

My favorite ridiculous name is TOS-1A “Solntsepyok” - “Sunburn” Heavy Flamethrower System. Sunburn! lol

800px-%D0%A2%D0%9E%D0%A1-1%D0%90_%D0%91%

Naming a laser “Peresvet” is such a terrible pun, too. It’s a legitimate name, but it’s also ‘a prefix for excessiveness’ + “light”.

Now, meet the Azart (“thrill”).

Spoiler

azrt10.jpg&width=820&height=220&typemap=

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/16/2019 at 9:19 AM, DDE said:

Now, meet the Azart (“thrill”).

   Hide contents

 azrt10.jpg&width=820&height=220&typemap=

Do you know best soviet ww2 mellee weapon? 

Its sovel, because you can use them to stab cut or shove them ... 

 

Quote

In the ground to make trench. 

 

Edited by JPGSP

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Posted (edited)

I did not want to derail/hijack this thread or offend anyone reading on this forum.

But back on topic, i allways think about the idea of the Soyuz system as something like "together, united". Very nice and human.

Naming rockets for whatever purpose seems a rather interesting matter. :rolleyes:

I can`t believe how ironic some names are, whoever invents them. (I am a from finland btw, we think differently :wink:)

Edited by Mikki
Location, to send a missile :D

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