speedboats, black holes, STOCK helicopters, clouds and etc.

[KerikBalm]

yes, they've shown that in some videos

[Azimech]

Just a short gif of a three year old stock parts helicopter to make some people happy.

 

[k00b]

On 5/27/2019 at 9:10 PM, razark said:

How did you get an early release of the DLC?

i didn't; i used my brain...; see the complain threads about "helicopters" going 25 m/s and rotors being completely useless..........(sorry for being 20m/s out with my saracasm (i am too busy flying around in a planes at 1000m/s+...)

On 5/28/2019 at 3:04 AM, KerikBalm said:

There's plenty of room for spontaneity without randomness... particularly extremely unrealistic randomness.

yes black holes (see mr. hawking) are "extremely unrealistic" whearas sending green men into space with a pneumatic (?) claw to take asteroids back home (just bcuz) is entirely like day to day life...........................

(they would obviously be randomly generated "far out" and suck up a probe so you think "oh poo i better not take the same trajectory again", unless i am going to take the same trajectory "because i can totally make it with more thrust".

....people are leaving the game because it gets boring.

repetively building NON-EFFICIENT craft in the vab for seemingly no apparent reason (see the above post of helicopter idling around in the sky for no apparent reason ???), is very boring for alot of people................. (nice gif of helicopter going less then 5 m/s (sarcasm).

HENCE: they should spice up the game for us casuals... with aliens black holes and helicopters OR speed boat missions or something... (we already have "part failure" due to crashes and temperature and "craft failure" due to the VAB BTW....).

[snip]

[KerikBalm]

11 hours ago, k00b said:

i didn't; i used my brain...; see the complain threads about "helicopters" going 25 m/s and rotors being completely useless..........(sorry for being 20m/s out with my saracasm (i am too busy flying around in a planes at 1000m/s+...)

[snip]

Also, you said 0.5 mph, which is 0.22 m/s, so you were off by more than a factor of 10x... And then if you count tilt rotor craft, There are already designs topping 100 m/s... I think I've seen some rotor designs pushing 200 m/s (don't know if they could be made tilt rotor)

Good for you flying around at 1000 + m/s, what does that have to do with helicopters and prop planes?

 

Quote

yes black holes (see mr. hawking) are "extremely unrealistic" whearas sending green men into space with a pneumatic (?) claw to take asteroids back home (just bcuz) is entirely like day to day life...........................(they would obviously be randomly generated "far out" and suck up a probe so you think "oh poo i better not take the same trajectory again", unless i am going to take the same trajectory "because i can totally make it with more thrust".

Black holes themselves are not unrealistic. Undetectable black holes that don't destroy the kerbal solar system, and just appear randomly and destroy single craft are. If there's a black hole in the system, everything would be orbiting it. Also your idea of "unless i am going to take the same trajectory 'because i can totally make it with more thrust'." makes no sense. Either you cross the event horizon, and there is no escape, or you don't, and you already enter its SOI at escape velocity... [snip].

Your statement of " i better not take the same trajectory again" also makes no sense because everything is in motion, and an object in the way of a kerbin> duna hohman transfer will not stay in the way of a kerbin> Duna hohman transfer. Its just going to be total randomness if they are undetectable.

This idea is just so so so poorly thought out and terrible.

To flesh out this idea, how massive are the black holes? if they are truly massive, then everything in the system must orbit around them, they aren't random, and should have a clearly visible accretion disk (not to mention that the system would be impractically massive).

If you are talking about micro black holes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole

"Hawking's calculation^[2] and more general quantum mechanical arguments predict that micro black holes evaporate almost instantaneously."

Furthermore, some impossible intermediate mass black hole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Physical_properties

"there is no observable difference between the gravitational field of such a black hole and that of any other spherical object of the same mass."

So basically you'd just have your trajectory knocked off a little as if you were passing gilly... if you made the object more massive, then again, the gravitational effects should be clearly visible, and it would basically destroy the kerbal's system.

I cannot stress enough how terrible this idea would be if implemented in the game, I would revert to an earlier version. I would never buy another DLC again, as that would mean updating and having to play a version with such a terrible and unrealistic mechanic in it.

 

Quote

....people are leaving the game because it gets boring.repetively building NON-EFFICIENT craft in the vab for seemingly no apparent reason (see the above post of helicopter idling around in the sky for no apparent reason ???), is very boring for alot of people................. (nice gif of helicopter going less then 5 m/s (sarcasm).

Efficient doesn't mean fast. Also building an efficient craft for no apparent reason doesn't seem to solve the problem you're talking about.

So basically, you need a reason to build craft, efficient or not... that's what breaking ground partially sought to remedy, by giving you surface features to find. Good luck getting a scan of a giant quartz on kerbin with a plane whizzing by at 1000 m/s. They are found only on kerbin's mountains, and the terrain is quite trecherous for rovers there. VTOLs and deployable helicopters can work quite well.

[k00b]

sorry; i get confused, what with the intagibles of the game being very very boring....

m/s / kmp/h 5mph who cares...

fact being fact, they still don't have helicopters and the things people are making are completely useless in career mode due to low speed (like i told you).

thankyou for your long post though....

[KerikBalm]

7 hours ago, k00b said:

sorry; i get confused, what with the intagibles of the game being very very boring....m/s / kmp/h 5mph who cares...

You said 0.5 mph. I've already seen designs pushing over 100 m/s, which is 225 mph. nearly 500x faster than what you first said.

If you don't care about a 500x difference, then you shouldn't care about a 10x difference from 100 m/ to 1000 m/s

Quote

fact being fact, they still don't have helicopters and the things people are making are completely useless in career mode due to low speed (like i told you).

fact being fact, people are building helicopters, and what you just said was blatantly false. Helicopters are being made, and means of moving them faster over large distances are also being made (such as the helo is a tilt rotor to move faster, or its a compound helicopter). I even saw @Brikoleur posting his design for a compound helicopter capable of reaching orbit.

[snip]

[k00b]

5 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

You said 0.5 mph. I've already seen designs pushing over 100 m/s, which is 225 mph. nearly 500x faster than what you first said.

If you don't care about a 500x difference, then you shouldn't care about a 10x difference from 100 m/ to 1000 m/s

fact being fact, people are building helicopters, and what you just said was blatantly false. Helicopters are being made, and means of moving them faster over large distances are also being made (such as the helo is a tilt rotor to move faster, or its a compound helicopter). I even saw @Brikoleur posting his design for a compound helicopter capable of reaching orbit.

To be honest, I don't know either

i am not talking about the laws of physics and timewarping............

failing to understand how you can't grasp that they are completely pointless for career mode when there are things called "jet engines" about ???.

i'd be VERY suprised 100ms; - please show me non modded that gets to 100ms... baring inmind jet engined can go approximately "10x faster....." [in 0.5mph rating (to point out...)]

getting a helicopter into orbit is COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS (even for kerbals ...), if you put rotary wings on an orbital craft, [snip], that is all.................

[Guest]

5 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I even saw @Brikoleur posting his design for a compound helicopter capable of reaching orbit.

I have a much more efficient one in development, this one can only barely hover with a full fuel load. My goal is to make a chopper that can fly itself to Duna, then operate there as an exploration and orbital liaison craft. A space chopper like this would also work in a similar role on Laythe. I'm also quite sure it's possible to build choppers suitable for operation on Eve. Since they run on electricity they have the huge advantage of much better endurance than any other non-rover in that environment. Infinite endurance if you make them run off solar cells in fact. Eve in fact would seem to be an environment just made for choppers; they would definitely have career roles there.

Choppers can push past 30 m/s on main rotors only, but I haven't been able to build one that cracks 40 m/s straight-and-level. For that they need additional forward propulsion. From about 75-100 m/s on rotor stability becomes an issue but I've pretty much tamed that by now. The rotor in the above one is an early proof of concept of a rotor that is stable at high forward velocities; it's kind of terrible at lifting, but I have much better ones now -- although not quite as efficient as ones that are built for slow speeds. 

Here's another one I built -- in my view, this role could not be served as well by anything other than a helicopter; a VTOL jet for example is a good deal more difficult to land gently on water and you'd need a lot of jets to get the lift capacity to carry a sub. Whereas this one does it easily and is just plain fun to fly. It cruises safely at up to 80 m/s or so.

([snip]. KSP is all about building wacky stuff whether it makes sense or not; [snip].)

[k00b]

3 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

Choppers can push past 30 m/s on main rotors only,

that's very strange because there is apparently one flying around at 100ms ???

- please could you also tell me what those three large cylindrical "MASSIVE ENGINE" looking things are on your "chopper"; are they for aesthetic purposes etc ? and you know we are talking about "helicopters" (you are refering to "choppers" for some seemingly HIGHLY evasive reason).

3 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

(KSP is all about building wacky stuff whether it makes sense or not; [snip].)

kerbal "space program" (BIG clue is in the name, is about playing on a "build and then fly space sim mod".

[snip]

[Guest]

3 hours ago, k00b said:

that's very strange because there is apparently one flying around at 100ms ???

Jet-powered. A single Juno will push a small chopper past 100 m/s. As I said, you can't go all that fast on main rotors only. I've no doubt people will push the limits further but I doubt they're gonna crack 50 m/s any time soon.

3 hours ago, k00b said:

 - please could you also tell me what those three large cylindrical "MASSIVE ENGINE" looking things are on your "chopper"; are they for aesthetic purposes etc ? and you know we are talking about "helicopters" (you are refering to "choppers" for some seemingly HIGHLY evasive reason).

"Chopper" is just slang for helicopter. Sometimes I also call them eggbeaters.

3 hours ago, k00b said:

kerbal "space program" (BIG clue is in the name, is about playing on a "build and then fly space sim mod".

Yep, which is one reason I want to build choppers that can operate on Duna, Laythe, and Eve?

[snip]

Edited June 12, 2019 by Guest
Removed flamebaiting.

[k00b]

 

6 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

Yep, which is one reason I want to build choppers that can operate on Duna, Laythe, and Eve?

oh ok; most normal people would use a non-rotary winged aircraft, due to that being pointless....

i don't suppose you will be posting pictures of said pointless objects on any forums would you......................... ???

[snip]

Edited June 12, 2019 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[Guest]

6 hours ago, k00b said:

oh ok; most normal people would use a non-rotary winged aircraft, due to that being pointless....

If you want to go in that direction, then what's the point of playing computer games in the first place?

6 hours ago, k00b said:

 i don't suppose you will be posting pictures of said pointless objects on any forums would you......................... ???

Of course I will. I'll be posting them up on KerbalX as well.

[snip]

Anyway, in the original post you specifically said you wanted helicopters. Now we have helicopters, and you're saying they're pointless. Make up your mind already!

Edited June 12, 2019 by Guest
Redacted by moderator

[Guest]

 

44 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

As I said, you can't go all that fast on main rotors only. I've no doubt people will push the limits further but I doubt they're gonna crack 50 m/s any time soon.

Never mind, I just cracked 55 m/s level flight ASL, main rotor only and it wasn't even in a chopper built for the purpose, with many tons of payload and a full fuel load. Now I have no doubt 60 m/s is entirely attainable and will stop guessing what the limit is. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Guest

[KerikBalm]

7 hours ago, k00b said:

i am not talking about the laws of physics and timewarping............

Neither am I... what are you talking about?

Quote

failing to understand how you can't grasp that they are completely pointless for career mode when there are things called "jet engines" about ???

You are the one that started asking for helicopters

Quote

i'd be VERY suprised 100ms; - please show me non modded that gets to 100ms... baring inmind jet engined can go approximately "10x faster....." [in 0.5mph rating (to point out...)]

I was referring to tilt rotors, but with jet engines and rockets, you can get much faster. I have no idea what your point is that you say a jet engine can go 10x faster, and I have no idea what you are saying when you say [in 0.5 mph rating (to point out...)]

Quote

getting a helicopter into orbit is COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS (even for kerbals ...), if you put rotary wings on an orbital craft, it means you are a total numpty, that is all.................

Let me get this straight, you want stock helicopters, but say helicopters are useless. We got stock helicopters, but you say we don't have them. You say stock helicopters are too slow, and then say its ridiculous that one was built that gets to orbital speed (as a compound helicopter with rocket and jet thrust).

What do you even want? You want helicopters, you got helicopters. You now say they are usless and too slow, but its ridiculous if they go to fast...

[snip]

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[Superfluous J]

2 hours ago, k00b said:

failing to understand how you can't grasp that they are completely pointless for career mode when there are things called "jet engines" about ???.

Which makes me wonder why you asked for them in the first place.

[Guest]

All right, cracked 90 m/s in this baby... albeit briefly, she was a handful at that speed so I couldn't get a screenie. She cruises fairly sedately at 85 or so though. No jets!

I think I'm getting closer to the limits with this one though, she's already using dual power and things get seriously bumpy near the top speed. Nice thing is that at half torque she behaves quite decently as a normal helicopter.

This is getting pretty close to 100 m/s. I'm kinda tempted to show the OP a non-modded, non-jet-powered 100 m/s helicopter... I have a feeling getting to 100 from 85 is going to be much harder than getting from 40 to 85. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

All right @k00b,  here's your stock helicopter with no jets capable of exceeding 100 m/s in level flight, powered by main rotors only. A few tweaks to the rotor did it...

https://kerbalx.com/Brikoleur/BAK-900X-Kerwood

For reference, a normal boringworld helicopter without jets usually hits its top speed somewhere around 70 m/s. The fastest compound helicopter in the world -- the Eurocopter X3 -- will go up to 130 m/s. The fastest non jet-assisted choppers (e.g the Agusta Westland AW139) will crack 85 m/s. So these kerbal choppers are already a lot faster than real-world human ones.  

Edited June 12, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

It was a good thread, pushed me to explore the limits of what non-compound helicopters can do. Now I'm able to make a helicopter that handles pretty decently in an operating envelope comparable to real-world ones. Thanks @k00b!

[Tapeta]

38 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

All right @k00b,  here's your stock helicopter with no jets capable of exceeding 100 m/s in level flight, powered by main rotors only. A few tweaks to the rotor did it...

I think this threat should be moved into challenge category and should be renament as "Breaking Ground Helicopters Speed challenge"

 

[Snark]

Folks, play nice, please.

Various content has been removed due to various bickering, petty personal attacks, insults, name-calling, etc.  Please review the forum rules, even though you're all already familiar with them (right?)  In particular,

• Do not engage in personal attacks against other forum users.
• If someone else is doing that, do not engage, please.  Simply report the post and let the moderator team deal with anything that may need dealing with.  It's what we're for.
• Please do not publicly comment about past or expected future moderator action.

C'mon, gang, you know better than that.

Anyway, given the general level of acrimony in this thread, it appears irrecoverable at this point and will stay closed.  Thank you for your understanding.