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KSP Loading... Preview: Breaking Ground - OP-E Large Scanning

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12 minutes ago, MajorTomtom said:

The surface features still look like they popped out of nowhere though, will you work on them to make it less artificial ?

Well, the surface feature in this case looks to fit in better than the Moho one. I think the main problem is the ground texture of the planet itself. Its bascially going to be impossible to have a nice detailed surface feature blend into a very low resolution bland background texture. The geometry and overall color are much better.

Its got a nice texture, shiny like smooth ice (I guess it makes sense that it may be smooth from sublimation and buildup from the gas expelled, some of it refreezing)... that's just not going to blend in with current surface textures. So we'd have the choice between ugly bland surface feature to match the ugly bland surface terrain (that would get a lot of complaints), or pretty feature that contrasts with the ugly bland surface texture.

We need a planet surface texture overhaul, with normal maps (currently, I think normal maps are only used for the textures and view of plants from high up), to go with this DLC.

I'd propose the surface features are DLC only, but the graphics/planet texture overhaul goes into the base game.

8 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

I hope the surface features are moddable.

6 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Out of curiosity, are there underwater "surface" features to explore on the seabed? The instrument looks interesting. :)

I'm more excited about the surface features than the arm myself. I was worried that the cryovolcano was going to be a bland cone. It actually does have some vapor, and particles floating* around.

I was thinking, with these animated floaty textures, there could be some pretty cool coral reef features under the sea of Kerbin, with the particles looking like little fish swimming around, or at least little plankton floating.

But something like this below the ocean of laythe, as a black smoker, and change the particles a bit to look like little living things swarming around the hotspot, as they do on Earth, that would be super cool.

* from a realism perspective, I don't like the floaty particles, and the gas diffuses too slow, it should be more jet-like.

That looks fine for a geyser on Kerbin or Laythe... but val has no atmosphere those small particles should be following ballistic trajectories, like dust kicked up on the moon, not floating around. Even with a geyser spewing out gas, its spewing out gas into what is effectively a vacuum, and as soon as the particles are a little bit away from the mouth of the plume.

 

We already have workable options for building stock subs on planets with O2 containing atmospheres (since jet engines work under water, lulz), but I'm fairly sure something can be made to work with the new hinges and rotors for electricity based propulsion, even on Eve. Also robotics will make it easier to deploy and recover stock submarines (getting a sub to the water was always a bit of a challenge), so I expect that I'll be spending even more time underwater with the new DLC.

Underwater surface features should definitely be implemented... and I'm sure a mod will add them eventually if they aren't already implemented.

Stock subs already here, so we need underwater features:

Spoiler

Testing one on laythe, sub and craft launched as one, so I couldn't use the shielded docking port to connect them in the VAB/SPH (that is pretty annoying)

GednQxS.png

 

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A different plane deploying it, same cargobay setup, same sub

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Nearly the same design, deployed on Rald. In this case I spawned the sub, then the SSTO, then loaded the sub into the SSTO cargobay, so I could have a shielded docking port:

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This one was airdropped on laythe, and just decoupled its lyons with the parachutes... without wheels, it was difficult to refuel, since it couldn't roll up a ramp... robotics should help that:

sMBAtzu.png

Underwater geysers PLS!

 

 

Also, 720 Science, assuming it follows this:

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science#Celestial_body_multipliers

Then it has a 12x science multiplier. A Mun (4x multiplier) feature I presume would yield 240 science.

A Kerbin (surface multiplier: 0.3) feature would probably yield 18 science. I wish we had biome specific multipliers though... I'd make the poles of kerbin have higher values.

If this is the larger arm, then I'd expect the smaller arm to yield less science (1/2?), so maybe around 120 science on Mun when trying to unlock the tech tree?

Later, with 100% commitment to the science-funds admin "strategy", 720 science (fieldwork), at 103.783 funds per science, is 74,723 funds... not bad.

This sort of science output makes it more viable to ignore contracts and self-finance missions. Otherwise, late game, I'm mainly ignoring contracts and financing through the MPL (churning out science> funds the entire transfer time)

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Posted (edited)

Great job!

The rover arm has definitely got the character of KSP. It looks great yet still has that undefinable something that makes it look Kerbal.

The surface feature is quite good as well. The particle effects are impressive and the structure is much more blended, although the surface of the planet could use some shininess.

 

Keep up the great work! I'm looking forward to release!

 

Edited by GearsNSuch

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2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Well, the surface feature in this case looks to fit in better than the Moho one. I think the main problem is the ground texture of the planet itself. Its bascially going to be impossible to have a nice detailed surface feature blend into a very low resolution bland background texture. The geometry and overall color are much better.

Its got a nice texture, shiny like smooth ice (I guess it makes sense that it may be smooth from sublimation and buildup from the gas expelled, some of it refreezing)... that's just not going to blend in with current surface textures. So we'd have the choice between ugly bland surface feature to match the ugly bland surface terrain (that would get a lot of complaints), or pretty feature that contrasts with the ugly bland surface texture.

We need a planet surface texture overhaul, with normal maps (currently, I think normal maps are only used for the textures and view of plants from high up), to go with this DLC.

 

I'm wondering if ksp's terrain support 2d decals with alpha layers - In that case, we simply need to have a decal centered around the anomaly - the varying opacity of the decal would allow it to mesh more easily with ksp's ground textures. 

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My imagination had the “volcano” part of cry-ovolcano at a much different scale.  The one shown feels underwhelmingly small. The particle effects are nice.   I could see that same mist coming out of the moho ripple as a form of gas release as well.  I guess that arm will always deploy 90° to the port side of prograde or is it being manipulated by the heretofore unrevealed robotics controls?

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13 minutes ago, klesh said:

I guess that arm will always deploy 90° to the port side of prograde or is it being manipulated by the heretofore unrevealed robotics controls?

I hope the later but expect the former.

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15 hours ago, sh1pman said:

Something tells me that by the time we unlock that robotic arm and have the means to land it on Vall, there won’t be much stuff left to unlock with science.

I'm confused too...

You can already unlock the entire stock science tree without leaving Kerbin and it's moons. With these new experiments there will be even more points without going interplanetary. 

@SQUAD will the science progression and tech tree be balanced to accommodate all of these new high science return instruments?

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Posted (edited)

Eff yeah the arm looks great! And if we're expecting to actually land near and catalog maybe a few dozen of these over the course of a 100 hour save the animation is cool enough that I don't mind waiting through it. The cryovolcano also looks great, but yeah, to agree with others make it bigger! It doesn't have to be monstrous, maybe 3-5 times as big? Just so it has a little more visual drama. Not all of the features need to be bigger, the crystals and funny rock thing look fine as is, but varying the scales for different features would make them feel more real and add a bit of visual diversity. 
 

17 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I wish we had biome specific multipliers though... I'd make the poles of kerbin have higher values.

Me too! Its a subtle thing but it would go a long way to incentivizing players to explore more of the system. I also think a 4x multiplier sounds pretty good depending on how many of these kinds of features there are. Along the same lines I sort of wish different features had different multipliers depending on how rare they were. 
 

9 hours ago, Tyko said:

I'm confused too...

You can already unlock the entire stock science tree without leaving Kerbin and it's moons. With these new experiments there will be even more points without going interplanetary. 

@SQUAD will the science progression and tech tree be balanced to accommodate all of these new high science return instruments?

This is another good question. We can always mess with the science reward slider but keeping things proportional and calibrating the default settings would be a good idea out of the gate. 

Edited by Pthigrivi

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1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said:

It doesn't have to me monstrous, maybe 3-5 times as big?

Yeah, I mean, what is this, a cryovolcano for ants!?

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Looks sweet! Is it named after the late Oppy?

2 hours ago, Xavven said:

Yeah, I mean, what is this, a cryovolcano for ants!?

I thought they might substitute one or two of Vall's mountains for larger cryovolcanos, or try and do something similar to Enceladus :D

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4 hours ago, Xavven said:

Yeah, I mean, what is this, a cryovolcano for ants!?

tenor.gif

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Posted (edited)

"OP-E"

Seems like a small nod to a really durable Mars rover that only recently succumbed to the dust Kraken. Nice.

I was hoping that there would be two arm sizes so as not to be locked to using the RoveMate (which requires a lot of points to get). A small robotic arm will allow all kinds of fun initial science and more diverse rover designs. I'm all about rovers, so this makes me happy.

The animations are great.

Edited by OrbitsR4Sissies
Opportunity ("Oppy") was a rover, not a static lander.

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Personally I read OP-E as “Over Powered Experiment”. ;)

Hopefully not though. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MechBFP said:

Personally I read OP-E as “Over Powered Experiment”. ;)

Hopefully not though. 

The baseline multiplier doesn't seem too crazy, but I suppose it depends how common these things are and whether they're all equal. Also are there often more than one type on each planet (I hope so) and can you get multiple readings from different cryovolcanoes on the same planet (If they are clustered I hope only a few times before maxing out). Im still pretty curious to see how these will be mapped as the current Kerbnet system with little question marks is pretty fussy. Their solution is probably baked in by now but there are big gameplay implications between being able to see precisely where they are from orbit vs being able to see clusters or biomes where they're common. 

We also had a brief conversation over in the Suggestions section on biome overlays generally. DMagic made a pretty compelling case for the kind of real-time scanning you find in SCANsat over the current orbit>unlock system for resource overlays because it actually teaches you about how different orbits effect the surveying process. Its one of those perfect examples of how the base physics of the game could drive the experience of exploring.

Edited by Pthigrivi

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