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Rational Resources 1.17.1 [Apr 08, 2021]


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I have some a few questions, but a bit of background first. I've just started an install with JNSQ, MKS, all of Nertea's mods and not much else. In hunting down an incompatibility, I forgot to put Rational Resources and Space Dust Bunnies in my final install. My questions are:

1. JNSQ contains a folder called Rational Resources (I did install this). Is this just a config, or does it contain functionality?

2. When I install RR, B9PartSwitch complains about not having a tank type for RR_metal again i.e. I get a fatal error. This is fixed by removing RationalResourcesParts. The wiki makes this seem like an optional addition but is a bit unclear. Am I missing any ISRU functionality without it?

3. Finally and most importantly, if I add Rational Resources and SpaceDustBunnies now, will they function with an existing save?

Edited by Ruska
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@Ruska Howdy. To answer you:

  1. Don't install RR  from the JNSQ download. It's quite obsolete now. Lots of issues there have been fixed since. Install it separately, download RR and RR Parts from SpaceDock or GitHub.
  2. The Metal problem is fixed as in answer #1. You will miss a lot by not having RR Parts. This is where all the additions to drills, scoops and converters are kept. RR's core is only resource placement. RR is fully meant to be optional. You can easily do without it, but you'll miss out its offerings that seek to make refueling toyr Near Future ships more interesting and less basic (Ore --> Everything).
  3. RR and Dust Bunnies will have immediate effect and no harm on your save, but I must honestly say I won't be updating Dust Bunnies very soon. My modding energy is elsewhere for the time being.
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It looks like LqdHe3 doesn't appear on Kerbin, Mun, or Minmus with RationalResources. This has considerable consequences when trying to use e.g. FFT with JNSQ. It looks like there are a few different things at play here...

  1. FFT includes its own overrides to CRP for LqdHe3. These are specified at both the planetary and biome levels but appear to be oriented towards stock and RSS systems, so there's limited compatibility with other systems (JNSQ, GEP, etc.)
  2. Rational Resources then culls and overrides everything before it (at this point that's both CRP and FFT, since FFT doesn't include "tag = spared" or similar anywhere).
  3. Rational Resources isn't set up to place crustal LqdHe3 anywhere on Kerbin or its moons. In particular the config for Mun includes an entry for LqdHe3 but it lists "PlanetName = None" - I'm guessing this is not intentional.

I imagine there are a few different ways to address this, but I don't know what solution would be preferred in order to maximize compatibility between various combinations of mods.

Edit: Here's what I'm using to spare FFT's distribution and convert it to use JNSQ's biomes. Seems to work pretty well.

Edited by PocketBrotector
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There seem to be some problems with latest Rational Resources. I can't make it work with Kerbalism. It seems that something is off.
The processes are missing their definitions in the GUI
Zrzut_ekranu_330.jpg

The drill options also look strange

Zrzut_ekranu_331.jpg

I'm also getting bunch of errors:
EXC 11:33:19.562] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
KERBALISM.ProcessController.Update () (at <e418deadff324a4a92c68478f3c43f5c>:0)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)

Here is the log

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  • 2 weeks later...

How are the conversion rates between various resources determined?

I'm currently converting Water into LH2/Ox using the Rational Resources patch for the stock Convert-O-Tron and the output has something like 20% of the mass of the input, which doesn't seem right - this should be a pretty efficient reaction.

Edited by AtomicRocketBooster
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Release 1.15.0

DOWNLOAD :: GitHub :: SpaceDock

  • Added Extras:
    • RR_RCSFamily.cfg with modlet RationalResourcesRCSFamily to add fuel switching to RCS thrusters whether MonoProp, LFO, or MonoProp (WBI Classic Stock). Has default support for NF Aero, NF Spacecraft, most of NFLV, MKIV Spaceplane, KRE.
  • Added ISRU options (specific to other mods or parts in them):
    • Water-consuming NSW production to FFT 3.75m smelter part.
    • Blacksmith (Ablator refurbishment) to FFT 3.75m smelter part.
    • EL recipe for KerbalHealth Radiation Shielding.
    • Blacksmith based Shielding refurbishment to all parts equipped with KerbalHealth Radiation Shielding.
  • Added/Updated WIP tank options for NF Propulsion (Lihtium,Argon,Xenon).
  • Added opt-in ISRU options:
    • Deuterium: Freezer option to RR Boxed Compressor/Freezer.
    • Deuterium: as byproduct of Water Splitter.
    • Glykerol production (for DeepFreeze users).
    • KerbalHealth Lead Extractor.
  • Added opt-in ISRU options (stock mode only, should already be provided by Kerbalism):
    • NFE Uraninite Harvester.
    • NFE Uraninite Enricher (converter).
  • Fixed missing Kerbalism MRE Rock definition.
  • Moved Kerbalism patches to their own mod folder to prevent their config nodes loading when they need not (when Kerbalism not installed). Due to how Kerbalism operates, configs are parsed before MM runs, making MM conditions irrelevant, and which is the cause of RR processes involving Metal and MetalOre to cause cascade problems because these resources' definitions haven't gotten to load at the time the processes are parsed.
  • Updated Extras:
    • RR_ScienceLabBlacksmith.cfg: Blacksmith is now its own modlet RationalResourcesBlacksmith so it can be targeted by patches or used as a dependency. Its converters are SystemHeat compatible.
  • Updated Water Splitter to produce proper amounts of H2 and O2 gas (was broken and would produce 20%) and to produce Deuterium (gas).
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1 hour ago, KawaiiLucy said:

How should I proceed to only keep the more sensible resource distribution, without adding the new resources like amonia etc. and converters?

You can skip out on the converters, harvesters, tank options, RCS fuel options, engine fuel options etc by not installing RationalResourcesParts (where all the part changing is) and not installing any of the extras configs.

But you can't skip out on resources being added and placed. You might as well not install RR at all, or go into all the CRP templates and hack out the resource nodes that you don't like.

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21 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Release 1.15.0

Only for KSP 1.11+, I presume.  I had to go to the SpaceDock page to find a hint of version compatibility since it isn't on the OP nor in the release notes.  It would be nice to see a prominent note to that effect.

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6 minutes ago, Brigadier said:

Only for KSP 1.11+, I presume.  I had to go to the SpaceDock page to find a hint of version compatibility since it isn't on the OP nor in the release notes.  It would be nice to see a prominent note to that effect.

Nope, any version of KSP with a semi-modern version of Module Manager should work fine.

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Ok my goldfish brain is confused, what exactly does this mod do simplified, what i can get from the description it removes the random ore placements and adds in certain amounts in certain places, does this mean you can use a regular unmodded drill to harvest all the resources? and if thats correct then are there any other mods that add it to modded planets like OPM or extrasolar? its fine if i gotta do it yself

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3 minutes ago, Souptime said:

Ok my goldfish brain is confused, what exactly does this mod do simplified, what i can get from the description it removes the random ore placements and adds in certain amounts in certain places, does this mean you can use a regular unmodded drill to harvest all the resources? and if thats correct then are there any other mods that add it to modded planets like OPM or extrasolar? its fine if i gotta do it yself

So this mod, in its base state, simply makes life for planet pack authors much easier and standardizes the resources placed. It comes with OPM and Extrasolar support out of the box, and if you have anything you’d like to add it’s very simple to do, as per this: https://github.com/JadeOfMaar/RationalResources/wiki/Templates

Why you would use it if it wasn’t required; there is a folder called RationalResoucesParts that revamps ISRU chains, adds more resource intakes, configures drills to pick up all added resources. and adds a few exotic propulsion options involving the revamped resource system, for example a hybrid (throttleable, stop-and-startable) SRB and an ion engine running on water, which is a real-life concept.

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On 2/10/2021 at 5:11 PM, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Nope, any version of KSP with a semi-modern version of Module Manager should work fine.

 

On 2/10/2021 at 6:39 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

@Brigadier This mod works fine as far back as maybe KSP 1.6.1. That's why the KSP version is no longer in the title, but the version file still has a fixed KSP value just in case. @Clamp-o-Tron is on point.

 

Thanks, all.  Is there any hope that it'll show up in CKAN as compatible with all those versions?  Currently, it shows a 1.11.1 only.  I note that it's a trend in CKAN to make RR releases applicable to individual KSP versions or a very narrow range.  If its compatibility is wider, is there a reason why you don't do so?

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How does RR play out with USI-MKS/LS, is it actually recommended to play with both? Also, RR adds its own NTR Nerva, but would it be possible to patch the already existing one to enable the use of ammonia, LqdCO2 etc. (or is it because I have kerbal atomics and cryoengines installed, which prevents that?).

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@KawaiiLucy RR works well with USI, except that RR purges these resources: Dirt, Karbonite, Karborundum, and places Rock instead of Dirt, and doesn't add ISRU chains that are particularly useful to, or by any means directly related to USI. I can recommend that the two be used together but I don't.

RR doesn't patch the stock NERVA at all because Nertea's mods have patches that work in all of the exact places that mine would, so a nasty conflict (or just an undesired web of patches) is unavoidable if I tried anything. If you're hoping to have RR's fuel options + Kerbal Atomics' LOX-augmented mode, say so, and I'll add that to RR's NERVA clones.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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Thanks for the reply! Too bad there is a conflict for the NERVA, I didn't want a specific mode integration with Kerbal Atomics, as I've only been dipping my feet into this mod as of right now, the decision for such an implementation shouldn't rest on me (I think). However when trying out the extras I've noticed that the cfg for stripping the ore to fuel (ore to lfo, monoprop and lithium) conversion option wasn't working, as it still remained in the list when hovering over the stock converters. It has probably nothing to do with ReStock, but I'll just say I have that installed. A similar thing has happened with the more tank switches config, the extra options don't show up when clicking on the tanks in the editor. Tested with NFLV and CryoTanks. I believe my installation of these extras was correct, but I might be wrong; it's a matter of directly drag and dropping them into the GameData folder of KSP right?

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@KawaiiLucy I don't know what to sa about stripping the stock converter options, but I must say (and I can only assume) that you have a different fuel switching mod installed. I rig my B9 fuel options to not activate if you have other mods (namely, Configurable Containers, MFT, and maybe WBI Pathfinder). The Extras work fine when drag and dropped anywhere (in GameData of course). I would need to see your KSP.log, your Logs/ModuleManager/ and likely your MM configcache.

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3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@KawaiiLucy I don't know what to sa about stripping the stock converter options, but I must say (and I can only assume) that you have a different fuel switching mod installed. I rig my B9 fuel options to not activate if you have other mods (namely, Configurable Containers, MFT, and maybe WBI Pathfinder). The Extras work fine when drag and dropped anywhere (in GameData of course). I would need to see your KSP.log, your Logs/ModuleManager/ and likely your MM configcache.

Actually I think I've identified the issue, and isn't related to rr, but rather to near future itself. From what I know it adds a converter option for lithium, which I could simply delete. Regarding the "regular" fuel types tho, I have no idea. I'll edit the log links in. I have quite a big modlist, so maybe I can try it with fewer in, but am quite short on time irl right now. Will keep you updated.

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