Rational Resources 2.0.6 [Apr 02, 2024]

[Iodyne]

1 hour ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Hey there.

1. Actually I think there is no distinction (in practice). I setup LqdOxygen because, at first, I wanted to try and escape from using abstract Oxidizer, or to have it around in case certain mods do use it, like: if Kerbalism: for breathable air and for mixing it with LH2 to make Hydrogen Peroxide (its interpretation of Oxidizer fuel). It may happen as an input or output of other ISRU chains like the CO2 Fuser or Splitter.
2. I didn't realize that inconsistency, actually. I took the idea for the Maine Coon's behavior from the same in the nuclear jets in Mk2 and Mk3 Expansion. The purpose of this behavior is mainly to give the engine a half-life or make it seem less easy or OP (seeing as its fuel, without the reactor behavior, is solely the infinite intake resource). I'd kinda like to see the nuclear rockets have this but it would add complexity that nobody really wants.
3. Phosphorus is just a money maker but it has an unspoken significance in life support. Nobody else uses it and I don't expect that to change.
4. Absolutely! I didn't think much of it as a propellant then but I see it differently now (after recently being pointed to documentation for a microwave water ion concept engine). Look for a clone of the Dawn, the "RR MET" engine.

Concerning the NERVAs' fairings, it's likely overlap between the Squad and non-Restock variant switchers. I'm sure I had that covered.

The Cryo He3 tank config was fixed quite a while ago.

Thanks. I'll use the CCK stuff. It'll be necessary as I've started writing configs for other mods' parts to work with RR, like Stockalike Mining Expansion and Far Future Tech's Hydrogen scanner and scoop.

Thanks for the thorough reply, I know it was a lot... 

    1. Yeah makes sense. I have Kerbalism installed too; with RR is the kerbalism oxidizer pathway made available / is the oxygen->oxidizer disabled when kerbalism is installed? (Or should/can it be?)

    2. Hmm, I thought it was a super cool idea! Although not sure how to manage the heat output in atmosphere (I guess there's some in-line coolers). Maybe make it an optional patch? I don't know but I feel like most people who use RR also use stuff like Kerbalism or don't mind realism.

    3. Gotcha. (Fertilizer?)

    4. Yeah, saw the Dawn engine too; looked cool!

Yeah bugs sure do like to come back.

I installed the extra just yesterday (don't have GU installed yet but will) and had the issue too. So I put that in and it fixed it.

No problem; I didn't put the drills in the category but I'm sure they can be grabbed either manually or with a broader search than manufacturer=Kenron. Look forward to seeing this mod expand!

 

Also, I forgot to ask about the SRBs; it seems a little weird that there's no oxidizer included and that additional tanks need to be strapped on (is this intended/realistic?).

Honestly a bit surprised there's no halogens (although I guess they wouldn't really have a purpose).

    

[JadeOfMaar]

@Iodyne 1. In my recent conversation with another Kerbalism user, I settled on the LF and OX converters so actually, LqdOxygen is still in use (for Kerbalism at least). The details are in the release 1.7.0 changelog and a screenshot of these converters is in the post linked here:

2. While in atmosphere, cooling by convection scales with atmosphere pressure and is best near sea level and when the engine's producing less heat (due to low throttle). A nuclear rocket firing in atmosphere tends to produce very little thrust (being very vac optimized) and so wouldn't get to overheat and so wouldn't need much in radiators. Or if it still needs a lot of radiators, those would use convection and operate at their best (unlike in vac).

3. Fertilizer is possible.

Quote

Also, I forgot to ask about the SRBs; it seems a little weird that there's no oxidizer included and that additional tanks need to be strapped on (is this intended/realistic?).

It's intended. The extras config: "TankSwitchForSquad" adds all relevant fuel options to all Squad tanks, including Oxidizer by itself. Nertea's CryoTanks may also provide Oxidizer by itself. The RR SRBs are almost perfectly matched to two of the FL-Txxx 1.25m tanks when they're switched to OX alone.

Re: adding parts to the CCK tab: I've setup the stock drills, converters, fuel cells, the air scoop, and the narrowband scanner (see: the orbital RR experiment). I've also added all the relevant parts from Stockalike Mining Expansion and Far Future Tech.

 

[Iodyne]

@JadeOfMaar Okay, awesome! Thanks for all the clarification. Maybe I'll try to add the nuclear functionality to the LV-N engines. Shouldn't be harder than copy-pasting the modules, right? 

[JadeOfMaar]

1 hour ago, Iodyne said:

Shouldn't be harder than copy-pasting the modules, right? 

Nope. Shouldn't be. But...you'll want to add ThermalPower as a PROPELLANT node inside ModuleEnginesFX in the part config and at each point in the B9 module's subtypes that change the PROPELLANT entries.

[JadeOfMaar]

Top/Largest picture features Kerbalism; RR categories --> Engines tab; manned water ion engine craft; CryoTanks with many tank options; fuel cell PAW with fuel options;

Release 1.8.1

• Added Community Category Kit (thanks to @Iodyne ).
• Added feature patches (where applicable) and stock subcategories akin to CCK for the following mods:
  • CryoTanks.
  • Far Future Technologies.
  • Stockalike Mining Expansion by @SuicidalInsanity. Includes Kerbalism compatibility.
  • WBI Airships (its Convert-O-Tron).
  • WBI Buffalo (its drill and Convert-O-Tron).
  • WBI Pathfinder (Arcology drilling rig, Castillo Factory, and the Lasso series harvesters).
• Added Water option for fuselage fuel tanks (for use with the Water NTR and Water ion engine).
• Added WBI OmniConverter modules.
• Balance pass on harvesters cloned from stock parts. They cost more, may weigh more, some may perform less than before.
• Fixed Configurable Containers detection in squad tanks patch.
• Fixed missing Kerbalism drills config.
• Fixed shroud style selection on NERVA clones.
• Replaced Extras/TankswitchExtras.txt with Extras/RR_TankswitchFusionFuel.cfg for increased use of the common ground between Far Future Tech and Galaxies Unbound.

DOWNLOAD :: GitHub :: SpaceDock

Edited July 25, 2020 by JadeOfMaar

[Clamp-o-Tron]

New release is awesome. I was wondering, though, if the next could include a b9 methalox tank type, as only a few parts in weird sizes have it?

[Iodyne]

7 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

New release is awesome. I was wondering, though, if the next could include a b9 methalox tank type, as only a few parts in weird sizes have it?

Nertea's Cryotanks adds it in to most/all tanks.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Clamp-o-Tron There is a "CryoTanksMethalox" patch that extends CryoTanks as @Iodyne is hinting at. I believe it's hiding in NF Launch Vehicles. But there is also, and always has been, a "TankSwitchforSquad" patch hidden in my mod which gives Methalox, among most options, to all Squad tanks via B9 (and might add it to CryoTanks anyway. I'm not sure. Didn't care to test.)

[Iodyne]

On 7/23/2020 at 8:23 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

Nope. Shouldn't be. But...you'll want to add ThermalPower as a PROPELLANT node inside ModuleEnginesFX in the part config and at each point in the B9 module's subtypes that change the PROPELLANT entries.

Here's what I wrote: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Xw4otcsNlcaYbtvrpFlb5qXdxglZqyn6?usp=sharing. It's NTRReactorPatch.cfg.

I had to adjust the rates to allow full throttle above 90-95 percent reactor power.

-------

In addition, I put in an alternative of Nertea's reactor modules for consistency when NFElectrical/KerbalAtomics is installed, but I'm not sure how to get the engine VFX to disable when the reactor is off (but the engine is on). For reference his config for the stock LV-N is nuclearEngine.cfg

I also tried to change the thrust and ISP values Nertea's hydrogenNTRsSQUAD.cfg applies to the LV-N to be in line with RRs values, but I also can't get it to work. (although that's not RRs issue; I can take it up with him)

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I noticed the bread tanks were missing from the CCK category; fixed it by changing

@PART:HAS[#manufacturer[Kenron]]:NEEDS[RationalResourcesParts]
{
	@tags ^= :$: cck-rr:
}

to

@PART:HAS[#manufacturer[Kenron]]:NEEDS[RationalResourcesParts]:AFTER[RationalResourcesParts]
{
	@tags ^= :$: cck-rr:
}

----------

12 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Clamp-o-Tron There is a "CryoTanksMethalox" patch that extends CryoTanks as @Iodyne is hinting at. I believe it's hiding in NF Launch Vehicles. But there is also, and always has been, a "TankSwitchforSquad" patch hidden in my mod which gives Methalox, among most options, to all Squad tanks via B9 (and might add it to CryoTanks anyway. I'm not sure. Didn't care to test.)

Yeah I was referring to that; should have been more specific. Although, in the RR_TankswitchForSquad.cfg, when you updated the configurablecontainers check to /Parts, you— intentionally or not— removed the "!cryoTanks" from each of the NEEDS checks. I don't know if it is just my GameData, but the absence caused the stock tanks to not contain the Cryo Tanks types (hydrolox, methalox, etc.) and caused the Cryo Tanks' Hydrogen tanks to not contain any of the RR tank types. Adding these back in fixed the problem for me, and so perhaps that is what @Clamp-o-Tron is experiencing (or what he may come to experience even with Cryo Tanks and the NF Launch Vehicles patch).

Edited July 26, 2020 by Iodyne

[JadeOfMaar]

@Iodyne Thanks for all that you're doing. I just figured out the tank type issues and fixed it. Removing the " !CryoTanks" from NEEDS was intentional, but that was only half of what I had to do to make things CryoTanks friendly. (Previously they weren't.) I've also updated the tank patch to:

1. Provide RR's Methalox tank types if CryoTanksMethalox (via NFLV's methalox engine patch) is not active.
2. Handle the stock parts that hold only MonoPropellant or only LiquidFuel. CryoTanks doesn't patch them.

Quote

Release 1.8.2

• Fixed a small issue with CCK config.
• Fixed some issues with stock tanks patch. (Didn't catch LF-only and Mono-only tanks when CryoTanks installed; Was not providing Methane and Methalox in some places it should.)
• Updated patch to not provide MonoPropellant to CryoTanks.

I can't say that I have much interest in the more intricate reactor patches now (I loved it back in KSP 1.1's time, however) but I do have complete faith that you'll figure out the missing bits that need to be done to iron them out. And if you want me to, I'll include and release them. Just one question: Does the engine reactor delete/replace the alternator? I guess not.

[Iodyne]

14 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Iodyne Thanks for all that you're doing.

No problem.

14 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I can't say that I have much interest in the more intricate reactor patches now (I loved it back in KSP 1.1's time, however) but I do have complete faith that you'll figure out the missing bits that need to be done to iron them out. And if you want me to, I'll include and release them. Just one question: Does the engine reactor delete/replace the alternator? I guess not.

Yeah, it's certainly more intricate than necessary; doing it solely for consistency. I did not remove the alternators for the NTJ-like reactors. They have a significant electric charge output_resource; should I remove the alternator? does it make a difference?

Nertea's reactors do remove the alternator. Since it seems to just be VFX (and Nertea's actual NTJ in his mod still has EngineLight, heat output, and fuel use active when it probably shouldn't, having the plume active actually makes it a bit easier to see it needs to be turned off (although maybe a bit harder to realize its not providing thrust). But anyway I'm spending a bit too much time making everything perfect when it doesn't really matter all that much.

The thrust and ISP values I will need to figure out.. although I could just not use the stock LV-N; whats the point when I have these wonderful RR engines? 

---------------------

I see there's support for Mining Expansion, so I just installed that. Wondering about compatibility with the extras. Specifically the double EveLFOceans patch between ME and RR. If I just installed one then I'd lose functionality with either the airScoop or SMX_1mStackPump.

I noticed that the airScoop is given functionality for the ocean harvesting; that should be changed to the hydroscoop, right?

[JadeOfMaar]

3 hours ago, Iodyne said:

I did not remove the alternators for the NTJ-like reactors. They have a significant electric charge output_resource; should I remove the alternator? does it make a difference?

I remember that way back with the engine reactor patch there would be no alternator since the reactor is used entirely to power the engine. Either the reactor bias (power source vs thrust) is completely towards thrust, or an alternator just doesn't fit into Nertea's vision of the anatomy of the engine.

3 hours ago, Iodyne said:

although I could just not use the stock LV-N; whats the point when I have these wonderful RR engines?

That's part of why I made RR's NTRs separate parts and not a modification to the stock NERVA itself. If their specs appeal to you, use them and tweak them. And I don't have to step on Nertea's toes by trying to undo any of his patches to the stock NERVA.

3 hours ago, Iodyne said:

Wondering about compatibility with the extras. Specifically the double EveLFOceans patch between ME and RR. If I just installed one then I'd lose functionality with either the airScoop or SMX_1mStackPump.

RR strips out any resource placements that are not given certain tags, so it should cancel SMX's Eve LF oceans patch (and Ore oceans patch). The feature is missing, however, to protect or ensure, that SMX's pumps all can draw from the LF ocean.

3 hours ago, Iodyne said:

I noticed that the airScoop is given functionality for the ocean harvesting; that should be changed to the hydroscoop, right?

The air scoop shouldn't have ocean harvesting features now. I'm very, very sure I took that out when I made the hydroscoop. Really, thanks for spotting these things. The air scoop's modules have HarvesterType = 2 (atmosphere) and the hydroscoop's modules have HarvesterType = 1 (oceanic). The configs on GitHub appear to confirm that I didn't mess up.

[Iodyne]

@JadeOfMaar Gotcha. If I wasn't clear, the airScoop functionality I'm referring to is in the LF Eve Ocean patch.

Working on extending the tanks to other parts/mods.

[JadeOfMaar]

Ohhhh, thaaaaaat. I did not remember that.

[Iodyne]

@JadeOfMaar I did a few things... 

https://github.com/JadeOfMaar/RationalResources/pull/13

 

Here's also one extra thing to extend the nuclear reactors to NTRs of some other mods: https://bit.ly/31s1UPV

Edited August 3, 2020 by Iodyne

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 1.9.0

• Added RareMetals B9 tank option to Ore tanks.
• Added stock/Restock Ore tanks to RR category.
• Added Extras:
  • RR_MoreTankSwitches.cfg adds tank options for tanks of various manufacturers/mods including Fuel Tanks Plus, USI, Mk2 & Mk3 Expansion, KNES, Munar Industries, Charyol, DaMichael's, NovaPunch, NF Launch Vehicles... (List not made by me, contributed by @Iodyne )
  • RR_NTRReactorPatch.cfg adds the reactor engine functionality (demonstrated in the Main Coon jet engine) to the RR NERVA clones.
  • RR_KCTFuelResources.cfg registers RR eccentric propellants with Kerbal Construction Time.
  • RR_KerbalismEmitters.cfg adds Kerbalism radioactivity to the RR NERVA engines.
• Updated Extras/RR_EveLiquidFuelOcean.cfg to add LiquidFuel harvesting to the RR Hydroscoop, not the stock air scoop.

This update brought to you by Iodyne! A little is plenty, plenty is deadly! but it's super rare and valuable!

DOWNLOAD :: GitHub :: SpaceDock

[Iodyne]

@JadeOfMaar Aw gee thanks  

[Clamp-o-Tron]

@JadeOfMaar I might consider removing water tankswitches from crewed parts. I killed a crew on the dark side of the mun when they ran out of tacls water. This was because the presence of a water tankswitch in the command pod meant all the water there by default would also be removed when not using that setting. Not a huge problem or a bad kraken, just thought I'd alert you .

[JadeOfMaar]

10 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

I might consider removing water tankswitches from crewed parts.

I'm curious to what mods you're using that provide this. I believe this is only a thing with Tundra Exploration, OPT Spaceplane and my unreleased updates for Endurance (from Interstellar). And I don't believe this mod adds such switches to crewable parts in stock or other mods anyway.

If my switching mechanisms are available to the stock command pods then for some reason...I've never noticed that it was there... Likely, whenever I install TAC LS for testing things, I don't touch the stock parts. I have no need to. My development of configs has no business with them.

 

[Clamp-o-Tron]

@JadeOfMaar I noticed it with airplane plus-- some of those cockpits have liquid fuel storage that must have been picked up.

[JadeOfMaar]

So far I only installed Airplane Plus to develop TweakScale configs for it. I would never notice that.

[Ruska]

I'm getting a fatal error from B9PartSwitch when opening the game that I've narrowed down to RationalResourcesParts:

Spoiler

B9PartSwitch - Fatal Error

B9PartSwitch has encountered a fatal error and KSP needs to close.

Fatal exception while loading fields on module ModuleB0PartSwitch on part

Exception while loading field subtypes on type B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch

Exception while loading fields on subtype PartSubtype Metal

Exception while loading field tankType on type B9PartSwitch.PartSubtype

No tank type named 'RR_Metal' Exists

Please see KSP's log for additional details

I've tried adding unmet requirements on the RR_metal oretanks and creating a dummy tank type, but neither have worked.

This is in a fresh install of the current patch on steam with breaking ground but no making history, with the only other mods installed being the latest versions of B9PartSwitch and module manager, as well as the version of community resource pack linked in the op (which afaik is the one to use).

KSP seems to refuse to actually create logs in AppData no matter how I close the game, but here's KSP.log, which does at least mention the issue.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Ruska
accidentally uploaded old log

[JadeOfMaar]

I'm sorry @Ruska but I can't help you. The current RR version is 1.9.0 (in case you're using an older version) and problems like yours have already been fixed. This mod is not sensitive to the KSP version so you can safely install the latest version of this on older versions of KSP (except where some B9 Part Switch functional problem may occur).

[Ruska]

I'm not sure what you mean? The issue is taking place in the latest version of the mod with the latest versions of it's requirements and nothing else installed. If you don't want to spend the time that's of course fine, but the problem is almost certainly with this mod, as deleting RationalResourcesParts fixes the issue.

[Clamp-o-Tron]

@JadeOfMaar I’ve got a problem with the ore tanks missing the appropriate b9 tank types for ammonia, nitrogen, phosphorus, etc. Is this known to happen when, say, USI MKS is installed? That’s the only thing I have that seems likely to conflict, but I can send logs, modlist, screenshots etc.

Thanks!