Rational Resources 2.0.6 [Apr 02, 2024]

[JadeOfMaar]

@Clamp-o-Tron It turns out that I didn't do the Configurable Containers detection properly. That mod is present when any of Allista's mods (particularly, his core mod "AT Utils") is installed, and Allista's mods are closely associated with USI. Open RationalResourcesParts/CRP/OreTanks.cfg and change !ConfigurableContainers to !ConfigurableContainers/Parts

My configs are supposed to detect that specific portion of Allista's mods.

[Clamp-o-Tron]

7 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Clamp-o-Tron It turns out that I didn't do the Configurable Containers detection properly. That mod is present when any of Allista's mods (particularly, his core mod "AT Utils") is installed, and Allista's mods are closely associated with USI. Open RationalResourcesParts/CRP/OreTanks.cfg and change !ConfigurableContainers to !ConfigurableContainers/Parts

My configs are supposed to detect that specific portion of Allista's mods.

That works, great! Thanks Jade!

[Bombaatu]

I'm trying to set up a Wild Blue install and am having an issue with Rational Resources in that the game will not launch. B9 part switch throws fatal errors for missing resource definitions.

You had mentioned in the PathFinder thread that Classic Stock was incompatible with CRP - as such, I did not install CRP (which I'm certain is the source of my issue). 

If RR requires CRP, and Classic Stock is incompatible with CRP, is it possible for a Wild Blue game be set up to use CS & RR? Is there a 'secret sauce' config somewhere in the Extras folder that I missed?

 

EDIT: I think I found it in the Play Modes for Pathfinder. So, if I read this right, I have to install both CRP & CS, but then choose RationalResources/Classic as the play mode

Edited September 5, 2020 by Bombaatu

[JadeOfMaar]

@Bombaatu A significant part of the purpose of RR is to add value to Classic Stock. I'm currently entirely invested in building up for such a game too, and so I'm fixing any such issue I encounter. I believe this is what you're looking for:

B9_TANK_TYPE:NEEDS[B9PartSwitch]
{
	name = RR_Ore
	tankMass = 0
	tankCost = 0
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Ore
		unitsPerVolume = 0.2
	}
}

Add this to RationalResources/Classic/zTankTypes.txt (/.cfg)

Edited September 5, 2020 by JadeOfMaar

[Bombaatu]

5 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Bombaatu A significant part of the purpose of RR is to add value to Classic Stock. I'm currently entirely invested in building up for such a game too, and so I'm fixing any such issue I encounter. I believe this is what you're looking for:

I was editing the above post as you were replying. Here it is: 

Quote

EDIT: I think I found it in the Play Modes for Pathfinder. So, if I read this right, I have to install both CRP & CS, but then choose RationalResources/Classic as the play mode

Is that a correct assesment? IIRC, the missing resource wasn't ore.

 

EDIT part Deux - Ah-hah. I think I found the issue. All of the configs under the CRP folder were .cfg & all of them in the Classic folder were .txt. Are they supposed to swap out depending on Pathfinder play mode, or do I need to manually do it so I can play without installing CRP?

Edited September 5, 2020 by Bombaatu

[JadeOfMaar]

Ultimately you shouldn't need CRP at all. But I'm curious to what resource and the mod that uses it.

17 minutes ago, Bombaatu said:

EDIT: I think I found it in the Play Modes for Pathfinder. So, if I read this right, I have to install both CRP & CS, but then choose RationalResources/Classic as the play mode

You shouldn't need to install CRP. The play mode switcher is supposed to default to CS if it finds that the CRP folder is missing. Also you can edit GameData/WBIPlayMode.cfg before you launch KSP. Change its one value between "CRP" and "Classic Stock".

[Bombaatu]

2 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Ultimately you shouldn't need CRP at all. But I'm curious to what resource and the mod that uses it.

Log excerpt:

Quote

[EXC 10:18:26.577] [ModuleManager] Exception while calling B9PartSwitch.B9TankSettings.ModuleManagerPostLoad(): System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.Exception: Fatal exception while loading tank type RR_CryoA ---> System.Exception: Exception while loading field resources on type B9PartSwitch.TankType ---> System.Exception: Exception while loading field resourceDefinition on type B9PartSwitch.TankResource ---> B9PartSwitch.Fishbones.Parsers.PartResourceDefinitionValueParser+PartResourceNotFoundException: No resource definition named 'LqdAmmonia' could be found

Quote

[ERR 10:18:33.456] Module ModuleB9PartSwitch threw during OnLoad: System.Exception: Fatal exception while loading fields on module ModuleB9PartSwitch on part  ---> System.Exception: Exception while loading field subtypes on type B9PartSwitch.ModuleB9PartSwitch ---> System.Exception: Exception while loading fields on subtype PartSubtype LFO ---> System.Exception: Exception while loading field tankType on type B9PartSwitch.PartSubtype ---> System.InvalidOperationException: The tank definitions have not been loaded yet (done after game database load).  This is likely caused by an earlier error or by ModuleManager being missing or out of date

 

Several instances of the second message in the logs.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Bombaatu Oh, that. Yeah I had to address that for myself too. I fixed it for my personal game but I'm not quite sure I cleaned it up and pushed to GitHub. I'll check and push a release very soon.

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 1.10.0

DOWNLOAD :: GitHub :: SpaceDock

• Classic Stock focus
  • Added support for CryoTanks. (Note, you may want to delete all of CryoTanks' own patches except for CTT.)
  • Added options for stock fuel cells.
  • Disabled most tank types for fuel tanks as they are mostly not fuels, and enabled Ore tanks to hold them all.
  • Fixed resources for RR atomic engines.
  • Fixed removal of stock converter modules for Boxed Convert-O-Trons (where OmniConverter modules are added).
• Fixed Configurable Containers detection.
• Updated Extras:
  • RR_TankswitchForSquad.cfg to stop detecting CryoTanks. This is handled elsewhere.

@Bombaatu @Clamp-o-Tron yo!

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by JadeOfMaar

[Bombaatu]

@JadeOfMaar - I'm still getting the error loading tank type RR_CryoA - no resource named LqdAmmonia could be found. My WBIPlayMode is set to "Classic Stock". 

 

There is no definition for RR_CryoA in the /Classic/zTankTypes.txt file - there is in the /CRP/zTankTypes.cfg file. If the playmode is supposed to switch those configs, it isn't happening.

Edited September 5, 2020 by Bombaatu

[JadeOfMaar]

@Bombaatu Are the files in RationalResources/CRP/ or RationalResourcesParts/CRP/ still showing as .cfg files?

When you update, try forcing the play mode switcher by changing the value in GameData/WBIPlayMode.cfg to CRP, starting KSP just long enough to see it rename files, then change the value back and start KSP again. I'm not getting this problem.

[Bombaatu]

3 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Bombaatu Are the files in RationalResources/CRP/ or RationalResourcesParts/CRP/ still showing as .cfg files?

When you update, try forcing the play mode switcher by changing the value in GameData/WBIPlayMode.cfg to CRP, starting KSP just long enough to see it rename files, then change the value back and start KSP again. I'm not getting this problem.

They were .cfg files until I did a bulk rename. I renamed all the CRP files to .txt & all the Classic files to .cfg

[JadeOfMaar]

Man. you shouldn't need to do that anymore. That was painful to think of, way back.

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Yo @JadeOfMaar- just thought of something. N2 and O2- propelled NTRs are  definitely possible, and would make Minmus/ Mun ISRU much more rewarding instead of having to electrolyze water for H2, or make NH3. The exhaust velocity, and therefore Isp, and therefore thrust is very easy to figure out. I’ll start working on a PR to do this, but I’ve got a lot of stuff I’m working on right now. This is all assuming that b9 will let me do a 4th or fifth mode for those engines.

[JadeOfMaar]

39 minutes ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

N2 and O2- propelled NTRs are  definitely possible

From the source PDF I used I can add N2 myself (though I'll wait to see what you do). O2 isn't there (probably because IRL we have 100 better things to do with O2 than give it to an NTR) and because it has its own unique problem. It's incredibly reactive and would very actively try to oxidize and corrode the reactor core. N2 would actually be a very welcome option for NTR and B9 won't impose an upper limit on options.

There's already a mechanism to make Mun ISRU more rewarding. Among RR Parts are a clone of the stock Flea and Hammer SRB, but hybrid and will use Metal + Oxidizer. You can easily get metal from splitting Alumina (which Mun overflows with) or refine from MetalOre (if you like EL or SimpleContruction). These SRB's can partially throttle, shutdown and restart like liquid engines, and yield higher Isp due to Metal (as used by them specifically) being assumed to be highly reactive alkali metals.

[Clamp-o-Tron]

Never mind, I completely misread the source, thinking that an o2 afterburner was actually a separate mode of just oxygen. 

The hybrid boosters are very cool, I've used them for little transports from biome to biome.

[Nori]

I have a rather large list of mods, but the main ones are the entire Near Future pack (including Atomics and Cryo), JSNQ, Allista's mods (Global construction and such). Also got deep freeze, KCT, Stockmining Expansion, ScanSAT and TacLS.

JSNQ has this mod as a requirement and so I checked it out. All sounds great. Well I have been playing career and looked at the tech tree and was surprised to see everything still uses ore as the main resouce. You can get some resources that NFP uses from Atmo, but otherwise everything else uses Ore. I don't see parts to extract or use any other resources.

Anyway, I am just wondering if there is any integration mods or something else I should be installing to fully utilize this.

 

Thanks!

[JadeOfMaar]

@Nori This mod indeed makes a call for mods at large to change from using Ore... but it doesn't actually do/make the change except for the very few that I use, or other mod makers I'm close with make or use. Checking for and anticipating mods at large and making the patches for them is out of my scope. I leave that up to their user-bases to do for themselves or to ask me. Examples: Someone donated a set of patches to add B9-powered tank options to the fuel tanks of several part mods, and fuel support for KCT, and I've been asked to provide for OSE Workshop (an easy task).

Rational Resources Parts (the included parts mod, I assume you don't have this) provides "Boxed Convert-O-Trons" with various new ISRU chains (mainly for fuels), adds these chains to the stock Convert-O-Trons, adds many resource options to the stock drills, adds input options to the stock fuel cells, adds a harvester for ocean and exosphere, fully integrates Mining Expansion and CryoTanks, and provides some concept engines that use diverse fuel mixes.

There's an Extras folder which contains several configs, one of which is to remove the Ore-based options from the Convert-O-Trons, and another is the KCT integration.

You'll see some hints of RR configuration in mods that I've contributed to since creating all this:

• Tundra Exploration's Methalox system and LS tank options.
• Endurance (from the Interstellar movie, for KSP 1.10+)
• OPT Spaceplane
• Built-in integration and endorsement of EL (Extraplanetary Launchpads).

And it fits right in with most of the recommended mods you've listed already, but:

• I haven't released an ISRU chain to make Glykerol [DeepFeeze]
• I haven't done anything for Lithium [NF Propulsion]
• I haven't made alternate ISRU chains for producing MaterialKits [Global Construction, USI MKS].

[Clamp-o-Tron]

@JadeOfMaar I went ahead and made a PR for that N2 NTR on github. I tried to balance Isp and thrust values to the rest. Just make the necessary changes if you need to do so. Also, I can help with a lithium chain, and maybe I'll work on getting WBI's equipment a better chain than just ore.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Clamp-o-Tron The thing with Lithium (I've discussed this with someone before, actually) is whether to place it directly into planets (which allows for it to have natural variation per planet but could cripple NFP Lithium ships if they ever need to stop for a refuel, which I don't mind from a practical sense) or have it be produced as a byproduct of sifting MetalOre (convenient and spares me from adding an entry for it to all the body templates but defeats the challenge and reward of prospecting for it).

[lBoBl]

Hi Jade, first I want to say I love this mod and how deeply configurable it is, I've been having a lot of fun so far.

I have a couple of issues with the atmospheric scoops (I don't remember the exact name but the patched stock radial intake). I suspect you're gonna tell me it's a stock bug and there's nothing you can do about it but just in case, here's the problem.

It looks like they are designed to be mounted on an aircraft or some kind of moving vehicle, but I wanted to use them on a surface base that's landed on Duna to get Carbon Dioxide and make some fuel (which is imo not that unrealistic because electric fans mounted inside these radial intakes would do the job, and they do use electric charge to filter the atmosphere). So my first thought was, I'm gonna move the intakes by having them mounted on a rotor, but that doesn't work at all, the amount of resources you get just depends on how fast the craft is moving in the direction the intake was pointed at during launch. Basically the game doesn't take the rotor (or servo, I tried that too) rotation into account. I then tried pistons, which worked a bit better, until I time warped at which point they would systematically invoke the kraken and sometimes wreck the whole craft into tiny pieces. So I thought, to heck with those robotic parts, after all, my base is technically moving. Indeed crafts are rarely perfectly stationary when landed and tend to sort of vibrate back and forth in random directions. So I wanted to exploit this, I mounted 4 radial intakes at 90 degrees from each other, thinking that at least one would be working at any point in time, and yes that means 1/4 efficiency and I can't have much more than 4 because they use a lot of power, but at this point I was getting kind of desperate.

And it works!!! Until I time warp. Then it doesn't. When I right click on my four intakes, it looks at least one is working even during timewarp except that my CO2 and therefore liquid fuel productions slow down almost to a complete halt. So I can either wait for a few days with KSP running in the background and no timewarp, or use timewarp and wait a few ingame decades till my craft is refueled (which is not ideal). And I think I'm out of options right now.  I might just install HyperEdit and cheat to get my return fuel, and then abandon that base on Duna forever but I spent quite a lot of time and resources on it so that would be kind of a waste.

If it is just how the game works, well, it is what it is, but if it's indeed a bug and you need more information just tell me what and I'll provide it.

And thanks for the awesome mod in any case!

Edited September 7, 2020 by lBoBl

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, lBoBl said:

If it is just how the game works, well, it is what it is, but if it's indeed a bug and you need more information just tell me what and I'll provide it.

Unfortunately yes, it's an ugly fault of how the game works. It's a non-issue when atmosphere pressure is higher like on Laythe and the resource fraction of the atmosphere is not in the trace levels like Argon or Xenon so that there's a better guarantee that the production amount won't be rounded down to zero in timewarp. At some point atmosphere harvesting worked well but was changed to use some new ridiculous function and require an insane static speed multiplier value. To compensate for this and remain playable, it's better your CO2 harvester either be a self-powered aircraft or landed with drills in Duna's ice caps. This kind of trouble is part of why Nertea is making his Space Dust mod.

It also may be provoking the problem a lot that I nerfed the ability of the stock air scoop when I added support for Stockalike Mining Expansion's own atmosphere scoops. Here's how to deal with it and troubleshoot.

// Open GameData/RationalResourcesParts/CRP/Intake.cfg and, within this config node...

@PART[airScoop]:NEEDS[CommunityResourcePack,!WarpPlugin,!Kerbalism]
{
	// At each instance of ModuleResourceHarvester
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleResourceHarvester
		HarvesterType = 2
		Efficiency = 0.2 // change this to 1
		airSpeedStatic = 3000 // If Efficiency alone is not enough, change this to 5000
		ResourceName = XXX
		ConverterName = XXX Filter (Atmo)
		...
		
		INPUT_RESOURCE
		{
			ResourceName = ElectricCharge
			Ratio = 30 // change this to 6 if you end up needing 5x the EC input
		}
	}
}

 

[lBoBl]

 

2 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Unfortunately yes, it's an ugly fault of how the game works.

As I feared

But thanks a lot for the patch, I'll try again with this tomorrow and I'll let you know how it went.

[Clamp-o-Tron]

@JadeOfMaar I've got a couple of PRs on github, one for the N2 NTR, and the other just to bring TAC-LS up to standard with CRP resources.

[curiousY]

thank you